Pool C

[Greek Tragedy]

Where do we draw a line though. I think its tough to take a team with 6 more wins than losses. I realize the SOS and RRO.

I think its kind of like Hope's schedule. They have a great nonconference schedule but they didn't win any of those games (or only one or two).

I'm not comparing the two teams though.

[Coach C]

Q -

Nice work here.

Talk to me on your thoughts about Dickinson not being competitive in the C process with .800/.525/2-1 vs say, 12. Messiah* (MACC) - .792/.527/3-4   Mid-Atlantic #6

C

[iwumichigander]

Where do we draw a line though. I think its tough to take a team with 6 more wins than losses. I realize the SOS and RRO.

I think its kind of like Hope's schedule. They have a great nonconference schedule but they didn't win any of those games (or only one or two).

I'm not comparing the two teams though.

Initially, I had some problem with more than 6 losses.  But, I think the 70% rule has resulted in some teams having more vRRO games than in the past. For example, with the 4 CCIW teams within the Midwest you lend up with a low vRRO of 8 games, 4-4 .500% (Augustana) to a high vRRO of 12 games with either a 7-5 or 6-6 (Wheaton - with an SOS in the .595 neighborhood).

[bopol]

For grins and giggles, here is my bracket

Bracket 1 (UWW or UWSP as 2nd weekend hosts)

UWSP (host)
bye
De Pauw
Augustana

UT - Dallas (host)
Chapman
Trinity
Whitworth

St Norbert (host)
Central
Carthage
St Thomas

UWW (host)
Northwestern (MN)
OWU
Wheaton

Bracket 2 (Wash U or IWU as 2nd weekend hosts)

Wash U (host)
bye
Rose Holman
Wittenburg

Wooster (host)
Penn St Behrand
St. Vincent
Messiah

Emory (host)
La Grange
Spalding
Centre

IWU (host)
Marian
Wilmington
Hope

Bracket 3 (intention for Cabrini or Wesley as 2nd weekend host)

Cabrini (host)
Lancaster Bible
Richard Stockton
Staten Island

Scranton (host)
Rutgers-Newark
Stevenson
Mary Washington

Wesley (host)
York
Virginia Wesleyan
Wlliiam Patterson

Randolph - Macon (host)
DeSales
Alvernia
Dickinson

Bracket 4 (intention for Amhurst or Brockport St as 2nd weekend hosts)

Amhurst (host)
Salem St.
SUNY - Purchase
Albertus Magnus

Plattsburgh St. (host)
Husson
Nichols
Babson

Williams (host)
Elms
WPI
Geneseo St.

Brockport St (host)
Hartwick
Hobert
Eastern Conn

* Issues: I have 2 flights into Dallas the first weekend and that is it.  The second weekend; the winner of the Texas-Dallas pod will head to Wisconsin (one flight) and there is a distinct possibility that the winner of the Emory pod will end up on a plane (2 teams in that pod would require it no matter what and two wouldn't).

* I'm managed to split up the strong teams in the Wisconsin/Illinois/Minnesota/Missouri region into 2 brackets, but the brackets are still tough.  Bracket #1 has #1, #2, #5 and #11 on the d3hoops.com Top 25, while Bracket #2 has #3, #4 and #8.  There's no way I can see around that.

* Bracket #3 on the other hand is way too weak at this point though, and I probably could spend some time with maps to mix up Bracket #4 with #3 for balance.

* I probably am being overly generous giving Plattsburgh St a host instead of Babson or WPI, but I think they are quite good.  I spent less effort on Bracket's #3 and #4, but I wanted to share this anyway.

[bopol]

Well, and down goes Emory - more to think about...

[Titan Q]

Q -

Nice work here.

Talk to me on your thoughts about Dickinson not being competitive in the C process with .800/.525/2-1 vs say, 12. Messiah* (MACC) - .792/.527/3-4   Mid-Atlantic #6

C

Thanks C.

I guess I'd just say there is a really fine line in all of this, and Messiah's numbers land on the right side for me, and Dickinson's on the wrong.  I value the RRO total quite a bit...because it seems like there is history of the national committee doing the same.  Messiah has 3 wins vs RRO, and 7 total games played...whereas Dickinson has just 2 wins and 3 games played.  Whether right or wrong, it seems like that RRO total is used as a secondary measure of strength of schedule to some degree.   

For me, in this process, there is pretty clear separation in these numbers.

But hey, we're all just guessing here!

[ronk]

For grins and giggles, here is my bracket

Bracket 1 (UWW or UWSP as 2nd weekend hosts)

UWSP (host)
bye
De Pauw
Augustana

UT - Dallas (host)
Chapman
Trinity
Whitworth

St Norbert (host)
Central
Carthage
St Thomas

UWW (host)
Northwestern (MN)
OWU
Wheaton

Bracket 2 (Wash U or IWU as 2nd weekend hosts)

Wash U (host)
bye
Rose Holman
Wittenburg

Wooster (host)
Penn St Behrand
St. Vincent
Messiah

Emory (host)
La Grange
Spalding
Centre

IWU (host)
Marian
Wilmington
Hope

Bracket 3 (intention for Cabrini or Wesley as 2nd weekend host)

Cabrini (host)
Lancaster Bible
Richard Stockton
Staten Island

Scranton (host)
Rutgers-Newark
Stevenson
Mary Washington

Wesley (host)
York
Virginia Wesleyan
Wlliiam Patterson

Randolph - Macon (host)
DeSales
Alvernia
Dickinson

Bracket 4 (intention for Amhurst or Brockport St as 2nd weekend hosts)

Amhurst (host)
Salem St.
SUNY - Purchase
Albertus Magnus

Plattsburgh St. (host)
Husson
Nichols
Babson

Williams (host)
Elms
WPI
Geneseo St.

Brockport St (host)
Hartwick
Hobert
Eastern Conn

* Issues: I have 2 flights into Dallas the first weekend and that is it.  The second weekend; the winner of the Texas-Dallas pod will head to Wisconsin (one flight) and there is a distinct possibility that the winner of the Emory pod will end up on a plane (2 teams in that pod would require it no matter what and two wouldn't).

* I'm managed to split up the strong teams in the Wisconsin/Illinois/Minnesota/Missouri region into 2 brackets, but the brackets are still tough.  Bracket #1 has #1, #2, #5 and #11 on the d3hoops.com Top 25, while Bracket #2 has #3, #4 and #8.  There's no way I can see around that.

* Bracket #3 on the other hand is way too weak at this point though, and I probably could spend some time with maps to mix up Bracket #4 with #3 for balance.

* I probably am being overly generous giving Plattsburgh St a host instead of Babson or WPI, but I think they are quite good.  I spent less effort on Bracket's #3 and #4, but I wanted to share this anyway.

Wesley can't host in sectional; gym is too small; MAY not have offered to host in the regional round.

[y_jack_lok]

^^ Spalding won't be in your Emory pod as they lost to Webster in the SLIAC championship game. Better start rearranging because I'm pretty sure the NCAA won't send Webster to Emory.

[Greek Tragedy]

UPDATED as of 4:23 Eastern Time

GREEN is Pool A bid/#1 seed/Conference leader

RED POOL C contender

TEAM-ATLANTIC	RECORD	CON	SCHEDULE
SUNY-Purchase	23-2, 23-2	SKY	WON vs SUNY-Old Westbury 88-73; vs Mount St. Mary in Final 3/1
Richard Stockton	21-4, 21-4	NJAC	WON vs Kean 64-63; vs William Paterson in Final 3/1
Staten Island	24-2, 24-2	CUNYAC	WON vs Hunter 92-74; LOST vs York (N.Y.) 87-84 in Final
William Paterson	20-5, 20-5	NJAC	WON vs Rutgers-Newark 75-66; vs Richard Stockton in Final 3/1
Rutgers-Newark	19-7, 19-7	NJAC	LOST at William Paterson 75-66 in semifinal
Mt. St. Mary (N.Y.)	20-5, 20-5	SKY	WON vs Farmingdale State 95-75; vs SUNY-Purchase in Final 3/1
TEAM-EAST	RECORD	CON	SCHEDULE
Brockport State	21-3, 22-3	SUNYAC	WON vs Oswego 77-56; vs Plattsburgh State in Final 3/1
Plattsburgh State	21-4, 21-4	SUNYAC	WON vs Geneseo 73-69; vs Brockport State in Final 3/1
Geneseo State	19-5, 20-5	SUNYAC	WON vs Oneonta State 79-67; LOST vs Plattsburgh St. 73-69 in semifinal
Hobart	19-6, 19-6	LL	WON vs Clarkson 78-69 OT; vs Vassar in Final 3/1
NYU	16-8, 16-8	UAA	at Brandeis 3/2
Skidmore	16-9, 16-9	LL	LOST to Vassar 66-62 in LL semifinal COMPLETE
TEAM-GREAT-LAKES	RECORD	CON	SCHEDULE
Wooster	21-2, 22-3	NCAC	WON vs. Oberlin 89-56; WONvs Ohio Wesleyan 78-67; vs Wittenberg in Final 3/1
Hope	18-5, 19-6	MIAA	WON vs Trine 65-62 OT; vs Calvin in Final 3/1
Bethany	20-4, 21-4	PAC	LOST vs Geneva 61-59 in quarterfinals
Mount Union	20-5, 20-5	OAC	LOST John Carroll 83-81 in semifinal
DePauw	17-7, 18-7	NCAC	WON vs Wabash 73-59; LOST vs Wittenberg 63-61 in semifinal 2/28
Wittenberg	19-6, 19-6	NCAC	WON vs Denison 64-49; WON vs DePauw 63-61; vs Wooster in Final 3/1
Ohio Wesleyan	19-6, 19-6	NCAC	WON vs Kenyon 78-67; LOST vs Wooster 78-67 in semifinal
TEAM-MIDDLE-ATLANTIC	RECORD	CON	SCHEDULE
Cabrini	23-1, 23-1	CSAC	WON vs Rosemont 109-97; WON vs Neumann 96-79 in Final
Scranton	22-3, 22-3	LAND	WON vs Merchant Marine 82-64; WON vs Susquechanna 71-56 in Final 3/1
Wesley	20-2, 22-2	CAC	LOST vs Christopher Newport 59-54 in semifinal
Dickinson	20-5, 20-5	CC	WON vs McDaniel 77-63; vs Johns Hopkins in Final 3/1
Stevenson	18-7, 18-7	MACC	WON vs Hood 83-72; vs Alvernia in Final 3/1
Messiah	19-5, 19-5	MACC	LOST vs Alvernia 81-77 in MACC semifinal
Alvernia	18-7, 18-7	MACC	WON vs Messiah 81-77; vs Stevenson in Final 3/1
Mary Washington	18-5, 20-5	CAC	WON  St. Mary's (Md.) 70-65; WON vs Christopher Newport 65-48 in Final 3/1
St. Mary's (Md.)	15-7, 18-7	CAC	LOST vs Mary Washington 70-65 in semifinal
TEAM-MIDWEST	RECORD	CON	SCHEDULE
Washington U.	22-2, 22-2	UAA	at Chicago 3/1
Illinois Wesleyan	22-3, 22-3	CCIW	WON vs Carthage 76-71; vs Wheaton in Final 3/1
Wheaton (Ill.)	17-8, 17-8	CCIW	WON vs Augustana 66-55; vs Illinois Wesleyan in Final 3/1
Augustana	19-6, 19-6	CCIW	LOST vs Wheaton (IL) 66-55 in semifinal
St. Norbert	21-1, 22-1	MWC	WON vs Carroll in semifinal 2/28
Carthage	15-8, 16-9	CCIW	LOST at Illinois Wesleyan 76-71 in semifinal
Rose-Hulman	20-5, 20-5	HCAC	WON vs Mount St. Joseph 68-54; vs Hanover in Final 3/1
Chicago	14-9, 15-9	UAA
TEAM-NORTHEAST	RECORD	CON	SCHEDULE
Amherst	22-3, 22-3	NESCAC	vs Trinity (CT) in semifinal 3/1
Williams	21-3, 22-3	NESCAC	vs Middlebury in semifinal 3/1
Babson	20-5, 20-5	NEWMAC	vs Springfield in semifinal 3/1
Eastern Connecticut	20-5, 20-5	LEC	WON vs Mass-Boston 61-55; WON vs Western Connecticut 88-75; vs RIC in Final 3/1
WPI	22-3, 22-3	NEWMAC	LOST vs MIT 64-46 in semifinal 3/1
Springfield	18-6, 19-6	NEWMAC	vs Babson in semifinal 3/1
Bowdoin	19-5, 19-5	NESCAC	LOST to Trinity (Conn.) 71-67 3OT in semifinal
Albertus Magnus	23-1, 23-2	GNAC	WON vs Norwich 87-69; WON vs Lasell 91-72; WON vs St. Joseph's (Me.) 84-49 in Final 3/1
Nichols	20-5, 20-5	CCC	WON vs Western New England 73-54; WON vs Salva Regina 83-80 OT; LOST vs Gordon 69-65 in Final 3/1
Rhode Island College	17-8, 17-8	LEC	WON vs Southern Maine 74-66; WON vs Mass-Dartmouth 82-69; vs Eastern Connecticut in Final 3/1
Middlebury	16-8, 17-8	NESCAC	vs Williams in semifinal 3/1
TEAM-SOUTH	RECORD	CON	SCHEDULE
Randolph-Macon	20-5, 20-5	ODAC	LOST vs Hampden-Sydney 68-55 in quarterfinal
Emory	17-7, 17-7	UAA	at Rochester 3/1
Virgina Wesleyan	18-6, 19-6	ODAC	WON vs Bridgewater 91-70; vs Washington and Lee in semifinal 3/1
Texas-Dallas	22-3, 22-3	ASC	WON vs East Texas Baptist 80-65; vs Texas-Tyler in semifinal 3/1
Centre	17-3, 20-4	SAA	WON vs Berry 77-60; vs Rhodes in semifinal 3/1
Birmingham-Southern	16-9, 16-9	SAA	WON vs Hendrix 77-62; vs Oglethorpe in semfinal 3/1
Guilford	17-8, 17-8	ODAC	LOST vs Washington and Lee 77-70 in quarterfinal
Trinity (TX)	16-9, 16-9	SCAC	WON vs Texas Lutheran 78-65; vs WON Colorado College 64-48;vs TBD in Final 3/2
TEAM-WEST	RECORD	CON	SCHEDULE
UW-Stevens Point	24-1, 24-1	WIAC	WON vs Platteville 66-47; vs Whitewater in Final 3/2
UW-Whitewater	22-3, 22-3	WIAC	WON vs La Crosse i76-73; at Stevens Point in Final 3/2
St. Thomas	21-4, 21-4	MIAC	WON vs Bethel 74-59; vs St. Olaf in Final 3/2
St. Olaf	20-5, 20-5	MIAC	WON vs Gustavus Adolphus 66-53; vs St. Thomas in Final 3/2
Whitworth	20-5, 20-5	NWC	WON vs Lewis and Clark 87-62; vs Puget Sound in Final 3/1
Dubuque	18-4, 21-4	IIAC	LOST vs Luther 87-83 in semifinal
C-M-S	17-3, 19-5	SCIAC	LOST vs Cal Lutheran 54-53 in semifinal
Pomona-Pitzer	18-5, 18-7	SCIAC	LOST vs Chapman 69-54 in semifinal
Augsburg	18-7, 18-7	MIAC	LOST vs Bethel 70-67 in quarterfinal

[Greek Tragedy]

Mary Washington beat Christopher Newport in the Final today

Gordon beat Nichols in their Final today, doesn't look good for Nichols

Albertus Magnus won their Final

Scranton won their Final

WPI lost their semifinal, so their in trouble as a Pool C

Trinity (Texas) won their semifinal

[Titan Q]

* The data I'm using is from this week's regional rankings, games through Sun 2/23.
* This list accounts for the 64 current regionally ranked teams

Presumed Pool A/B Teams
--Would be competitive in Pool C selection process:
1. Amherst (NESCAC) - .917/.583/8-0   Northeast #1
2. UW-Stevens Point (WIAC) - .960/.581/5-1    West #1
3. Washington U.# (UAA) - .917/.595/6-2   Midwest #1  ---Clinched Pool A---
4. Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW) - .880/.556/6-2   Midwest #2
5. Wooster (NCAC) - .913/.534/5-1   Great Lakes #1
6. Brockport State (SUNYAC) - .875/.543/3-2   East #1
7. SUNY-Purchase (SKY) - .920/.508/4-1   Atlantic #1
8. Cabrini (CSAC) - .958/.504/2-0   Mid-Atlantic #1  ---Clinched Pool A---
9. Scranton (Land) - .880/.544/2-1   Mid-Atlantic #2  ---Clinched Pool A---
10. St. Thomas (MIAC) - .840/.527/4-2   West #3
11. Richard Stockton (NJAC) - .840/.528/3-2   Atlantic #2
12. Eastern Connecticut (LEC) - .800/.542/3-3   Northeast #4
13. Stevenson (MACC) - .720/.521/5-3   Mid-Atlantic #5
14. Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC) - .750/.545/3-2   South #3
15. Centre** (SAA) - .850/.507/2-1   South #5
16. St. Norbert (MWC) - .955/.509/0-1   Midwest #5   ---Clinched Pool A---

--Most likely would not be competitive in Pool C selection process:
17. Trinity-Tx (SCAC) - .640/.546/3-3   South #8
18. Dickinson (CC) - .800/.525/2-1   Mid-Atlantic #4
19. Albertus Magnus (GNAC) - .958/.475/1-0   Northeast #8
20. Texas-Dallas (ASC) - .880/.493/1-1   South #4
21. Whitworth (NWC) - .800/.524/0-3  West #5
22. Nichols - .800/.518/0-2   Northeast #9
23. Rose-Hulman (HCAC) - .800/.514/0-1   Midwest #7
24. Hobart - .760/.512/0-1  East #4


Pool C candidates
1. UW-Whitewater (WIAC) - .880/.565/4-1   West #2
2. Williams (NESCAC) - .875/.551/4-2   Northeast #2
3. Babson (NEWMAC) - .800/.564/3-4   Northeast #3
4. Randolph-Macon* (ODAC) - .800/.560/3-3   South #1
5. Wesley* (CAC) - .909/.522/3-0   Mid-Atlantic #3
6. Plattsburgh State (SUNYAC) - .840/.534/3-3   East #2
7. Wheaton (CCIW) - .680/.595/5-5   Midwest #3
8. Augustana* (CCIW) - .760/.553/4-3   Midwest #4
9. Geneseo State* (SUNYAC) - .792/.544/2-3   East #3
10. Emory# (UAA) - .708/.603/2-4  South #2
11. Alvernia (MACC) - .720/.541/4-4   Mid-Atlantic #7
12. Messiah* (MACC) - .792/.527/3-4   Mid-Atlantic #6
13. WPI (NEWMAC) - .880/.516/3-1  Northeast #5
14. Hope (MIAA) - .783/.546/2-4   Great Lakes #2 
15. Carthage* (CCIW) - .652/.593/4-6   Midwest #6
16. William Paterson (NJAC) - .800/.512/2-2   Atlantic #4
17. Rutgers-Newark* (NJAC) - .731/.525/3-2   Atlantic #5
18. Wittenberg (NCAC) - .760/.512/2-3   Great Lakes #6
19. DePauw* (NCAC) - .708/.539/4-4   Great Lakes #5
20. St. Olaf (MIAC) - .800/.539/1-5   West #4
--------------------
21. Birmingham-Southern** (SAA) - .640/.557/6-3   South #6
22. Chicago (UAA) - .609/.579/3-6   Midwest #8
23. Ohio Wesleyan* (NCAC) - .760/.529/2-3   Great Lakes #7
24. Springfield (NEWMAC) - .750/.556/1-4   Northeast #6
25. Mount Union* (OAC) - .880/.511/2-1   Great Lakes #4
26. Bowdoin* (NESCAC) - .792/.530/1-3   Northeast #7
27. Bethany* (PrAC) - .833/.505/1-0   Great Lakes #3
28. Staten Island* (CUNYAC) - .923/.477/0-0   Atlantic #3
29. Rhode Island (LEC) - .680/.550/0-3   Northeast #10
30. Middlebury (NESCAC) - .667/.557/2-4   Northeast #11
31. Guilford* (ODAC) - .680/.536/1-5   South #7
32. Mary Washington (CAC) - .783/.531/1-2   Mid-Atlantic #8
33. St. Mary's* (CAC) - .682/.560/1-5   Mid-Atlantic #9
34. Augsburg* (MIAC) - .720/.516/1-4   West #926.
35. Dubuque* (IIAC) - .818/.513/1-0   West #6
36. NYU (UAA)# - .667/.554/0-5   East #6
37. Skidmore* (LL) - .640/.529/2-4   East #6
38. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps* (SCIAC) - .850/.493/1-1  West #7
39. Pomona-Pitzer* (SCIAC) .783/.508/1-0   West #8
40. Mount St. Mary (Sky) - .800/.484/0-4   Atlantic #6


* Teams that have lost in their conference tournament (officially Pool C candidates)

# UAA teams - Wash U is locked in as the Pool A, Emory and NYU are Pool C candidates

** Pool B

[realist]

Hope loses to Calvin 78-53.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Williams and Brockport complete big comebacks to avoid Pool C (for another day, in Williams' case).

It's a shame about Nichols losing.  Ryan Sheehan is a great scorer who's been stuck on bad defensive teams the past three years.  They finally put it together this year and Gordon nips them.  GC has been coming on late in the season, though, so they should represent well.

[7express]

Eastern Connecticut down by 13 with 6:30 to go vs. RIC.  I still think Eastern will get in (#4 in New England), but the LEC is now sending 2 teams which ends someone's season.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Eastern Connecticut down by 13 with 6:30 to go vs. RIC.  I still think Eastern will get in (#4 in New England), but the LEC is now sending 2 teams which ends someone's season.

We've seen a lot of big comebacks in the Northeast today.  Don't write them off just yet.  Gordon finished their game on a 30-9 run to take the CCC.