Pool C

[Hugenerd]

Presumed last available teams in their respective regions


Middlebury (NESCAC) - .640/.562/3-6   Northeast #11---not at the final table
NYU (UAA) - .640/.546/0-6   East #6
William Paterson (NJAC) - .778/.528/4-3   Atlantic #4
Stevenson (MACC) - .704/.531/4-3   Mid-Atlantic #5
Birmingham-Southern (SAA) - .630/.553/4-3   South #6
DePauw (NCAC) - .692/.545/4-5   Great Lakes #5
Carthage (CCIW) - .625/.599/4-7   Midwest #6
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (SCIAC) - .818/.496/1-1  West #7

Last 3 in?

Ohio Wesleyan (NCAC) - .741/.541/3-5   Great Lakes #7
Springfield (NEWMAC) - .731/.567/2-4   Northeast #6   
Dickinson (CC) - .778/.529/2-1   Mid-Atlantic #4

I think Springfield might have been the last team in.  It looks to me like the last few selections came down to SOS for those with a winning % over .700

What about Bowdoin?  Springfield won two games last week, including against #3 Babson.

HOLY CRAP! A HUGENERD APPEARANCE!

WELCOME (BACK)!

Watched my first game of the season yesterday (guess which one?), during timeouts and after the game I was able to review some data and look into the regional rankings. Learned that once ranked always ranked was gone for this season. Better late than never I guess.

[Greek Tragedy]

You missed the fantasy draft!

[Hugenerd]

Thats alright, wouldn't know who to pick.  I'm guessing most of the NEWMAC guys will be available for a free agent team anyway.

[bopol]

Ok, some final thoughts on the Pool C picks:

1) Were the regional rankings out of whack with the committee's process?  After all, Carthage, Chicago, Birmingham-Southern were all appearing in the regional rankings, but they didn't get selected while teams with inferior SOS, few games against RRO and better records were?

2) I knew the order in the Mid Atlantic would matter and am fairly surprised that Dickinson stayed ahead of Stevenson, given that I had Dickinson losing an RRO if Guilford dropped out.  That was the decider for me, and I wonder if Guilford did make the last regional ranking or it didn't matter and Dickinson was ahead of the Stevenson either way.  I don't have a huge problem with the Dickinson pick as they are a good club, but I thought they'd end up on the wrong side of the bubble.

3) I guessed the order right in the Great Lakes, which is what makes the Mid-Atlantic confusing as well as the picks in the Northeast.

4) I don't have a problem with Springfield getting picked.  Basically, Springfield and Dickinson over Stevenson and Carthage makes sense to me in that I can see how a reasonable person comes to that conclusion, even if I might disagree.  If I had gone farther, I think Springfield would have been #20 and Dickinson would have been #23.  But there is one that floors me...

5) How the blue heck does Bowdoin get picked?  That was a four star screwup.  William Paterson had the same RPI, same record and a better RRO.  They played tough at the end of the year, which is more than I can say for Bowdoin.  Basically, Bowdoin was 6-5 in conference play.

If Bowdoin hadn't been picked and we ended up with William Paterson, Stevenson, Carthage, DePauw or even Staten Island, I'd say the committee did a good job, but as it is, they get a D+ for the picks this year because they set a bad precedent (play a soft schedule to get picked).

[izzy stradlin]

Ok, some final thoughts on the Pool C picks:

1) Were the regional rankings out of whack with the committee's process?  After all, Carthage, Chicago, Birmingham-Southern were all appearing in the regional rankings, but they didn't get selected while teams with inferior SOS, few games against RRO and better records were?

2) I knew the order in the Mid Atlantic would matter and am fairly surprised that Dickinson stayed ahead of Stevenson, given that I had Dickinson losing an RRO if Guilford dropped out.  That was the decider for me, and I wonder if Guilford did make the last regional ranking or it didn't matter and Dickinson was ahead of the Stevenson either way.  I don't have a huge problem with the Dickinson pick as they are a good club, but I thought they'd end up on the wrong side of the bubble.

3) I guessed the order right in the Great Lakes, which is what makes the Mid-Atlantic confusing as well as the picks in the Northeast.

4) I don't have a problem with Springfield getting picked.  Basically, Springfield and Dickinson over Stevenson and Carthage makes sense to me in that I can see how a reasonable person comes to that conclusion, even if I might disagree.  If I had gone farther, I think Springfield would have been #20 and Dickinson would have been #23.  But there is one that floors me...

5) How the blue heck does Bowdoin get picked?  That was a four star screwup.  William Paterson had the same RPI, same record and a better RRO.  They played tough at the end of the year, which is more than I can say for Bowdoin.  Basically, Bowdoin was 6-5 in conference play.

If Bowdoin hadn't been picked and we ended up with William Paterson, Stevenson, Carthage, DePauw or even Staten Island, I'd say the committee did a good job, but as it is, they get a D+ for the picks this year because they set a bad precedent (play a soft schedule to get picked).

Selection committee chair Steve Ulrich was on Hoopsville just a bit ago and started bringing up things like "eye-test" and "tournament history" as factors in the selection process.   No use trying to understand this rationally.

[Mr. Ypsi]

When the CHAIR of the Selection Committee doesn't know the criteria, we're in deep doo-doo.

[bopol]

Selection committee chair Steve Ulrich was on Hoopsville just a bit ago and started bringing up things like "eye-test" and "tournament history" as factors in the selection process.   No use trying to understand this rationally.

Well, I can send him a tape of Carthage-Wash U or Carthage-IWU I and you can think that Carthage should host a pod and get a bye.

If he said that, he should be fired.

[KnightSlappy]

Just listening to the Steve Ulrich interview now. How many years do we have to go through this before we realize that these committees cannot be trusted to consistently apply criteria?

It's quite clear that most of the members don't even fully understand the criteria -- "looking into the SOS to what it means", "how many home or road games a team had" -- WE HAVE A HOME/AWAY MULTIPLIER SUPPOSEDLY BUILT INTO THE SOS ALREADY.

Talk of coaches basically voting however they want -- eye test -- after the discussion is concluded. This cannot happen.

Sounds like we're all in favor of a one-number system now!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

They have been able to vote however they wanted for several years now... ever since the entire NCAA went to private, online voting.

[sac]

Selection committee chair Steve Ulrich was on Hoopsville just a bit ago and started bringing up things like "eye-test" and "tournament history" as factors in the selection process.   No use trying to understand this rationally.

Well, I can send him a tape of Carthage-Wash U or Carthage-IWU I and you can think that Carthage should host a pod and get a bye.

If he said that, he should be fired.

Why not send him the Buffalo State and Elmhurst tapes?

[KnightSlappy]

They have been able to vote however they wanted for several years now... ever since the entire NCAA went to private, online voting.

Right, but the rouge-ness of the voting is unacceptable. They should be better than that.

Also, I should say, you did a very good job of asking the very tough questions, especially when you weren't getting direct answers. Very nice job.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thank you... I had a lot more questions, but not enough time. I know Steve well, so I was maybe more frustrated and disappointed than I normally was... but at least he tried to answer questions unlike Ken Schumann a few years ago who simply ducked questions.

[bopol]

Selection committee chair Steve Ulrich was on Hoopsville just a bit ago and started bringing up things like "eye-test" and "tournament history" as factors in the selection process.   No use trying to understand this rationally.

Well, I can send him a tape of Carthage-Wash U or Carthage-IWU I and you can think that Carthage should host a pod and get a bye.

If he said that, he should be fired.

Why not send him the Buffalo State and Elmhurst tapes?

Dog ate them.

But I've got a nice tape of Wheaton at Carthage that would help the case.

[wooscotsfan]

Some thoughts about the Pool C selections:

Winning does matter if your SOS is reasonably solid.  The lowest Win % to be selected was Emory at .680 with a very high SOS.

The lowest SOS team to be selected was actually WPI with a .520 and WPI obviously had a high Win % at .846.  Obviously, Staten Island's SOS under .500 was too low in the committee's view regardless of their high Win % (just beating cupcakes is not enough).

One explanation for Bowdoin getting in was the committee did seem to value Win % and Bowdoin's was reasonable at .792 coupled also with the fact that they played in a strong conference (NESCAC) facing Amherst and Williams.

The big mystery for me is how William Paterson got left out.  In fact Willy Pat's Win % and SOS are virtually identical to Dickinson who got in...plus Willy Pat had a better RRO record than Dickinson.  If I was a William Paterson fan, I would be very annoyed because the criteria did not seem to matter in their case?

[Pat Coleman]

Unless Dickinson was selected last, which is certainly possible.