Pool C

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Question for the group as we prepare our hearts and minds for the first set of rankings next week:

would you rather I (1) update the data every day or (2) update through Sunday and then hold the data until we see the regional rankings on Wednesday afternoon?

http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

I think you should update every day until Sunday... and then hold until we see the regional rankings. People will make arguments or assume incorrectly things if we are looking at data that is being updated and not what the committee is discussing. I think then on, say, Thursday you can start re-updating until Sunday.

I realize the second part of that could still cause some confusion, but for me personally... it helps me have an idea on Thursday night how things may have changed (I just have to remember to maybe print your rankings out prior to you changing them).

But updating them daily when the committee's numbers aren't changing is only going to cause confusion and we will all be having to explain why the numbers are different.

[Pat Coleman]

Question for the group as we prepare our hearts and minds for the first set of rankings next week:

would you rather I (1) update the data every day or (2) update through Sunday and then hold the data until we see the regional rankings on Wednesday afternoon?

http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

I'd suggest you update every day but also create an archived copy of the data through each Sunday.

BTW, I went through most of the games yesterday afternoon and made a bunch of corrections to in-region designations. I'd guess probably 50 men's games and 40 women's games were affected. Not quite complete, but I feel pretty good about the data as of right now.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Question for the group as we prepare our hearts and minds for the first set of rankings next week:

would you rather I (1) update the data every day or (2) update through Sunday and then hold the data until we see the regional rankings on Wednesday afternoon?

http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

I'd suggest you update every day but also create an archived copy of the data through each Sunday.

BTW, I went through most of the games yesterday afternoon and made a bunch of corrections to in-region designations. I'd guess probably 50 men's games and 40 women's games were affected. Not quite complete, but I feel pretty good about the data as of right now.

That's a pretty good compromise. I think it is important to have a record of Sunday's numbers, so having them available somehow so we can see them as we wait for Wednesday's rankings I think is important. I also think it is important to see how those numbers are changing on a daily basis, especially for those who don't quite understand how the SOS works or how it relates to the rankings.

[KnightSlappy]

So, option #3 then? 

I will explore the option of creating an archive.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

This circles back to several weeks ago pertaining to UWSP and whether their post-season ban would affect if they are considered by the committee for regional rankings... and furthermore how they affect other teams.

I need double-check and as I expected, UWSP will be considered when it comes to regional rankings and thus they will have an affect on other teams. So they could be ranked, if worthy, and their games, WL%, SOS, and other items will be considered for themselves and for their opponents.

This will mean that IF UWSP were to "get to the table" at at-large selection time, they would simply be skipped over and the next team behind them will take their place. Big if, but I know people would wonder how that is handled.

[Greek Tragedy]

Thanks, Dave. They are only 9-9 right now, but good to know IF that would happen.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thanks, Dave. They are only 9-9 right now, but good to know IF that would happen.

Yeah, certainly not saying it will happen... but if they went on a run and with more teams being ranked in regions (though to be honest, the Central might be the only region that didn't gain [or lose] a regional number this year)... you know if I didn't look into it... it would happen and no one would know if they are being considered. LOL

[Greek Tragedy]

Thanks, Dave. They are only 9-9 right now, but good to know IF that would happen.

Yeah, certainly not saying it will happen... but if they went on a run and with more teams being ranked in regions (though to be honest, the Central might be the only region that didn't gain [or lose] a regional number this year)... you know if I didn't look into it... it would happen and no one would know if they are being considered. LOL

Because the addition of 2 NCAA tourney spots, regions get additional spots in the regional rankings? Interesting.

[fantastic50]

]
Because the addition of 2 NCAA tourney spots, regions get additional spots in the regional rankings? Interesting.

For the record, it's 11 this year for the Northeast, 9 in the Great Lakes, and 8 in each of the other regions.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thanks, Dave. They are only 9-9 right now, but good to know IF that would happen.

Yeah, certainly not saying it will happen... but if they went on a run and with more teams being ranked in regions (though to be honest, the Central might be the only region that didn't gain [or lose] a regional number this year)... you know if I didn't look into it... it would happen and no one would know if they are being considered. LOL

Because the addition of 2 NCAA tourney spots, regions get additional spots in the regional rankings? Interesting.

Has nothing to do with the 2 extra NCAA spots...

When determining how many teams are to be ranked in each region, there is a percentage range. I can't remember the exact range this moment, but say 12-17% just to give you an idea of what it would be. The men's committee in the off season decided there were some regions that could use a few more teams ranked and others that maybe had too many ranked. The Northeast has had 13 in the past, so the committee went to the lowest it could with 11. The rest, they shifted to as even a number as they could find: 8. I believe Great Lakes is just big enough they couldn't get it down to 8.

There are a number of reasons for this. The women made a similar move a few years ago. But it has nothing to do with adding two more slots to the tournament.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Page 16 of the pre-championship manual - http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBB_PreChamp_DIII_M_Basketball_20161024.pdf

That manual also tells you pretty much everything you'll ever want to know about selection.

[mailsy]

Thanks Ryan. Always good to have that on hand. +1.

[AllStar]

Page 16 of the pre-championship manual - http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017DIIIMBB_PreChamp_DIII_M_Basketball_20161024.pdf

That manual also tells you pretty much everything you'll ever want to know about selection.

This is useful.  Thank you!

[Greek Tragedy]

Just moving this forward

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/division-iii-mens-basketball

[fantastic50]

Through Sunday, Feb. 5, based on knightslappy's numbers posted at http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-regional-rankings-data/

43 Pool A berths (current conference leaders)
UW-River Falls (WIAC CE) 17-2, 0.605
Babson (NEWMAC NE) 20-1, 0.581
Whitman (NWC WE) 21-0, 0.549
Washington U. (UAA CE) 17-3, 0.586
Marietta (OAC GL) 17-4, 0.591
Christopher Newport (CAC MA) 19-2, 0.534
Susquehanna (LAND MA) 17-3, 0.554
Neumann (CSAC AT) 20-1, 0.512
Tufts (NESCAC NE) 17-5, 0.562
Hope (MIAA GL) 16-3, 0.531
Lycoming (MACC MA) 17-4, 0.537
St. Lawrence (LL EA) 17-4, 0.535
Hanover (HCAC GL) 15-3, 0.524
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (SCIAC WE) 15-0, 0.459
Swarthmore (CC MA) 17-4, 0.529
Benedictine (NATHC CE) 18-3, 0.511
St. Thomas (MIAC WE) 16-4, 0.532
---below would be bubble teams in Pool C, due to "bid thieves" winning conference tournaments---
Ramapo (NJAC AT) 20-2, 0.485
Augustana (CCIW ce) 17-4, 0.518
Oswego State (SUNYAC EA) 17-4, 0.518
St. John Fisher (E8 EA) 15-5, 0.539
Guilford (ODAC SO) 18-3, 0.497
---below would likely be on the wrong side of the bubble in Pool C---
Eastern Connecticut (LEC NE) 14-7, 0.562
Wooster (NCAC GL) 15-6, 0.541
Concordia (Texas) (ASC SO) 13-5, 0.536
St. Norbert (MWC ce) 16-3, 0.488
Endicott (CCC ne) 17-4, 0.498
Buena Vista (IIAC WE) 14-8, 0.547
Eastern (MACF AT) 13-8, 0.550
Staten Island (CUNYAC at) 17-5, 0.492
Becker (NECC ne) 15-4, 0.482
Albertus Magnus (GNAC ne) 16-4, 0.469
St. Vincent (PrAC gl) 16-4, 0.467
Farmingdale State (SKY at) 16-5, 0.477
Schreiner (SCAC so) 11-10, 0.564
Medaille (AMCC gl) 15-5, 0.469
Salem State (MASCAC ne) 14-8, 0.511
Gallaudet (NEAC ea) 18-4, 0.441
Husson (NAC ne) 14-6, 0.483
Northwestern (Minn.) (UMAC we) 14-6, 0.455
Methodist (USAC so) 13-7, 0.472
Westminster (Mo.) (SLIAC ce) 13-6, 0.438
Centre (SAA so) 13-7, 0.440

21 Pool C berths (must have WP>=.667 and SOS>=.500)
(A handful of these likely would end up out, due to bid thieves in conference tournaments)
1) Middlebury (NESCAC NE) 18-3, 0.606
2) Amherst (NESCAC NE) 16-4, 0.582
3) Rochester (UAA EA) 19-1, 0.521
4) UW-Whitewater (WIAC CE) 17-3, 0.556
5) Whitworth (NWC WE) 18-3, 0.540
6) Salisbury (CAC MA) 17-4, 0.550
7) Williams (NESCAC NE) 16-6, 0.577
8) Wesleyan (NESCAC NE) 16-5, 0.560
9) John Carroll (OAC GL) 14-6, 0.579
10) UW-Eau Claire (WIAC CE) 14-6, 0.573
11) Mount St. Joseph (HCAC GL) 17-3, 0.515
12) Hardin-Simmons (ASC SO) 15-6, 0.561
13) Loras (IIAC WE) 15-6, 0.560
14) Keene State (LEC NE) 14-7, 0.574
15) Cabrini (CSAC AT) 16-4, 0.524
16) Catholic (LAND MA) 15-6, 0.552
17) Carthage (CCIW CE) 13-6, 0.562
18) Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW ce) 14-6, 0.556
19) Virginia Wesleyan (ODAC SO) 15-6, 0.548
20) MIT (NEWMAC NE) 16-5, 0.529
21) Mass-Dartmouth (LEC NE) 14-7, 0.563

Leagues with the most teams in: NESCAC 6, WIAC 3, Little East 3, CCIW 3
(The NESCAC may well get five bids, but these other leagues seem unlikely to hold three)

Pool C berths by region: Northeast 7, Central 4, West 2, Mid-Atlantic 2, Great Lakes 2, South 2, East 1, Atlantic 1

Moving In: Catholic (C), Virginia Wesleyan (C), MIT (C), Mass-Dartmouth (C), Guilford (ODAC), Wooster (NCAC), Concordia (Texas) (ASC), Medaille (AMCC), Methodist (USAC)

Moving Out: Bates (C), LeTourneau (C), Emory (C), North Park (CCIW), Randolph-Macon (ODAC), Denison (NCAC), Franklin and Marshall (CC), La Roche (AMCC), Greensboro (USAC)

Notes: Hardin-Simmons moves from ASC leader to Pool C; Swarthmore moves from Pool C to CC leader; Augustana moves from Pool C to CCIW leader

Wrong side of the bubble
Note: Only teams with the potential to get to .667 WP (e.g. 18-9) or better are listed
UW-Oshkosh (WIAC CE) 13-8, 0.596
Bates (NESCAC NE) 15-8, 0.580
Rowan (NJAC AT) 14-8, 0.572
Scranton (LAND MA) 16-5, 0.524
Brockport (SUNYAC EA) 16-5, 0.521
LeTourneau (ASC SO) 16-4, 0.504
North Park (CCIW ce) 15-5, 0.521
Nebraska Wesleyan (IIAC WE) 15-5, 0.520
TCNJ (NJAC AT) 16-6, 0.528
Hamilton (NESCAC ne) 15-6, 0.529
Gwynedd Mercy (CSAC AT) 17-4, 0.493
DeSales (MACF AT) 15-6, 0.527
St. Johns (MIAC WE) 14-5, 0.518
Connecticut College (NESCAC ne) 12-8, 0.568
Emory (UAA SO) 14-6, 0.530
Ohio Northern (OAC GL) 14-7, 0.539
WPI (NEWMAC ne) 14-7, 0.538
Trinity (Conn.) (NESCAC ne) 14-8, 0.547
Randolph-Macon (ODAC SO) 15-6, 0.517
Wartburg (IIAC we) 12-8, 0.559
Ripon (MWC ce) 14-5, 0.505
Moravian (LAND MA) 13-6, 0.524
Cortland (SUNYAC EA) 15-6, 0.512
North Central (Ill.) (CCIW ce) 13-7, 0.534
Johns Hopkins (CC ma) 14-7, 0.526
Chicago (UAA ce) 12-8, 0.551
Alvernia (MACC ma) 13-8, 0.543
New Jersey City (NJAC at) 17-5, 0.484
Denison (NCAC gl) 17-4, 0.469
Delaware Valley (MACF at) 13-8, 0.540
Stevens (E8 ea) 16-4, 0.471
Skidmore (LL ea) 15-6, 0.503
Franklin and Marshall (CC ma) 15-6, 0.502
Ohio Wesleyan (NCAC gl) 15-6, 0.502