Pool C

[Pat Coleman]

Championship weekend is usually not considered in any season.

Confirming for folks that we were told this for football as well. Whether the Texas Stagg would have potentially required one flight or two, it wasn't counted against the total flights projected for the bracket.

Doesn't it seem like that's wrong, though? In Salem, you usually had 1 team within 500 miles (Mount Union) and 1 not. Is flying an additional team suddenly free because it's later in the tournament? A damn world of difference between traveling a football team and a basketball team too. You could probably fly half the tournament for what it costs to travel a football team.

Look at it as two different budgets. There is a budget for the tournament. There is a budget for the final four. They don't impact each other.

Usually football is the costliest tournament each year to run ... men's and women's basketball the next costliest.

I wonder how this will change now that baseball has gone to super regional format.

The softball people said they actually saved a small amount of money this way. When you think of it, in the regionals, at most eight teams were hosting and playing at home and everyone else was incurring hotel nights, sometimes four of them. In the new format, 25% of the first-weekend teams and 50% of the second-weekend teams will be hosting, and they will be hosting shorter tournaments. And doing so on-campus. Obviously, some of that is offset by the fact that, essentially, eight teams will travel twice before the finals weekend.

[SaintPaulite]

Championship weekend is usually not considered in any season.

Confirming for folks that we were told this for football as well. Whether the Texas Stagg would have potentially required one flight or two, it wasn't counted against the total flights projected for the bracket.

Doesn't it seem like that's wrong, though? In Salem, you usually had 1 team within 500 miles (Mount Union) and 1 not. Is flying an additional team suddenly free because it's later in the tournament? A damn world of difference between traveling a football team and a basketball team too. You could probably fly half the tournament for what it costs to travel a football team.

Look at it as two different budgets. There is a budget for the tournament. There is a budget for the final four. They don't impact each other.

Usually football is the costliest tournament each year to run ... men's and women's basketball the next costliest.

I wonder how this will change now that baseball has gone to super regional format.

The softball people said they actually saved a small amount of money this way. When you think of it, in the regionals, at most eight teams were hosting and playing at home and everyone else was incurring hotel nights, sometimes four of them. In the new format, 25% of the first-weekend teams and 50% of the second-weekend teams will be hosting, and they will be hosting shorter tournaments. And doing so on-campus. Obviously, some of that is offset by the fact that, essentially, eight teams will travel twice before the finals weekend.

Good points. Having postseason baseball in St. Paul would be pretty cool, I would rather see it at CHS rather than on campus, though that won't happen this year with the Saints schedule. Might be interesting to see postseason baseball with the cavernous outfield at UST, though.

[SaintPaulite]

The regional rankings in New England continue to be biased toward the NESCAC. Lot of people on that committee with either current or former NESCAC ties. No real reason for Wesleyan or Colby to be in it other than to pump up the NESCAC resumes. 

Mass-Dartmouth should be in a position where if they beat ECSU they should be ahead of them, but they probably aren't in that position.

Wondering if the national committee will do some reworking of that.

Elsewhere, IWU blocked by Stevens Point who probably has to win the WIAC to get in. Wabash looks like they need to beat Wittenberg or they're out.

Loras up to 3rd in the West puts them in very solid position to host, especially since the #4 (UST) likely can't.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The regional rankings in New England continue to be biased toward the NESCAC. Lot of people on that committee with either current or former NESCAC ties. No real reason for Wesleyan or Colby to be in it other than to pump up the NESCAC resumes. 

Mass-Dartmouth should be in a position where if they beat ECSU they should be ahead of them, but they probably aren't in that position.

Wondering if the national committee will do some reworking of that.

Elsewhere, IWU blocked by Stevens Point who probably has to win the WIAC to get in. Wabash looks like they need to beat Wittenberg or they're out.

NOT. HOW. IT. WORKS. I can't tell you how many people tell me how coaches, admins, etc. check their allegiances and ties at the door and talk about these things on merit. If they didn't, they would either be called out on it by their colleagues or the NCAA liaison.

The NESCAC has strong numbers, but if the bias was there and we were working in the former days, Wesleyan would be a LOT higher. Wesleyan has a very, very strong SOS and that will keep them in play. In past years, they would be in the Top 5.

National Committee looks at the regional rankings each and every week and I can tell you for sure they are making sure the regions are using the data accordingly ... and making changes when needed. If something is off to them, they change it before we see it posted.

[SaintPaulite]

The regional rankings in New England continue to be biased toward the NESCAC. Lot of people on that committee with either current or former NESCAC ties. No real reason for Wesleyan or Colby to be in it other than to pump up the NESCAC resumes. 

Mass-Dartmouth should be in a position where if they beat ECSU they should be ahead of them, but they probably aren't in that position.

Wondering if the national committee will do some reworking of that.

Elsewhere, IWU blocked by Stevens Point who probably has to win the WIAC to get in. Wabash looks like they need to beat Wittenberg or they're out.

NOT. HOW. IT. WORKS. I can't tell you how many people tell me how coaches, admins, etc. check their allegiances and ties at the door and talk about these things on merit. If they didn't, they would either be called out on it by their colleagues or the NCAA liaison.

The NESCAC has strong numbers, but if the bias was there and we were working in the former days, Wesleyan would be a LOT higher. Wesleyan has a very, very strong SOS and that will keep them in play. In past years, they would be in the Top 5.

National Committee looks at the regional rankings each and every week and I can tell you for sure they are making sure the regions are using the data accordingly ... and making changes when needed. If something is off to them, they change it before we see it posted.

So the national committee or the NCAA has never redone regional rankings before? I'm pretty sure you yourself have said otherwise.

NESCAC SOS's are crap. They're inflated and we know that. Look at who they've actually played and beaten. Mostly they get credit for beating other NESCAC teams. This is why they need to be forced to play a longer conference season, because they can be mediocre against each other and it's like but they only played 10 conference games, only had one game against whoever, etc. And then people look at the inflated SOS. Whereas being .500 or a game over .500 in any other conference is a strike against you, one way or another.

We need a committee with the guts to say no we're not falling for it anymore. Sam sounded like this might be the committee, but the regional rankings don't reflect it so far. LOL 6 of the 8 teams are ranked from the Massey #4 conference. The WIAC, ARC and CCIW should just all get Pool C's by default in that case.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Where are you reading "never redone regional rankings?"

I wrote: "... making changes when needed. If something is off to them, they change it before we see it posted."

Sorry you hate the NESCAC... which is clear. It isn't changing the situation. And no conference is ever "forced" to do anything. It has been debated and soundly shot down in DIII. That isn't how it works. Just because you don't like it, spence, doesn't mean membership is going to jump up and down to change it.

And from my experience covering this sport ... I'll take NESCAC teams over a lot of the rest of the country more times than not. They have proven that pretty well over the years. They aren't going to beat everyone, but I don't understand how you can't see they have proven themselves over the years.

And the last part ... not part of the criteria. Stick to the criteria. A game (or how many) over .500 in any conference isn't a factor at all.

Oh ... remember, teams like Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan, Colby, Bates, and Bowdoin all play a second game against their local rivals. It isn't as cut and dry as you would like to make it. How many times do you have to keep repeating yourself?

[SaintPaulite]

And from my experience covering this sport ... I'll take NESCAC teams over a lot of the rest of the country more times than not. They have proven that pretty well over the years. They aren't going to beat everyone, but I don't understand how you can't see they have proven themselves over the years.

And the last part ... not part of the criteria. Stick to the criteria. A game (or how many) over .500 in any conference isn't a factor at all.

It's not part of the criteria, but you're fooling yourself if you think it doesn't matter for other leagues. It's exactly the reason you all criticize the Oshkosh Pool C when that was actually justified bc they were a good team with a great schedule that had been in the annually toughest league in the country. It's why you say (probably correctly) that Stevens Point has no chance, that Platteville has no chance, that Whitewater has no chance. But if those records were 6-4 or 4-6 rather than having a few more losses and padding the non-conference, then they'd have every chance. And I know you aren't gonna go and say Wesleyan played a tougher schedule than Stevens Point.

Maybe I hate them, maybe I just hate the bias toward them. But I definitely hate that they get so much preferential treatment they haven't earned at the cost of better teams.

Again, what's it been 15 years since any of them got past a WIAC, CCIW or MIAC team in the tournament? Maybe I'm forgetting one out of a bunch, but I know it's not many.

But you think they've proven themselves because sometimes they get out of the east (not even done that as much lately), which really just shows how deep the eastern bias goes.

[Inkblot]

Here's what the Northeast regional ranking would look like if determined by Massey:

• Amherst
• Hamilton
• MIT
• Williams
• Nichols
• Middlebury
• Wesleyan
• Eastern Connecticut
• Colby
• Keene State
• New England College

Only one of the NESCAC teams is higher in the actual regional rankings.

[SaintPaulite]

Whatever, I can't win.

I try to do something unique and get no credit for it. But when I dare look at our lords and saviors rather than averting my eyes, I get -k - bombed. I don't really care, just pointing out the fact.

All I know is that there are a lot of people that agree with me, on this board and off. I'm not going to say who because I don't want to see them vilified like I have been here. But I'm done trying, I've said what I have to say and it's obvious that no one is willing to consider anything different than their opinion even in the face of more than a decade of evidence.

This year the country is more imbalanced than ever. There's hardly an eastern team in the top 10 in the country in either the F50 or Massey. The ARC is getting the respect they've deserved for a long time bc of NWU's success, to go with the annual quality in the other power leagues.

I'll put money on for whoever wants to go against it that the first time a NESCAC team faces a CCIW, WIAC, MIAC or ARC team, they'll lose. I doubt they even make it that far, much like the last couple of years.

If you're game, message me. Otherwise, I'm out. I don't need this abuse from people that claim themselves to be uber-worthy of respect and adoration in D3.

Enjoy the tournament everyone. I hope the committee sets it up so the best teams have a chance to advance to play each other, or be denied the opportunity on the court in a fair bracket, rather than having to battle just to get out of the first weekend. I hope, I don't expect.

[Gray Fox]

Here's what the Northeast regional ranking would look like if determined by Massey:

• Amherst
• Hamilton
• MIT
• Williams
• Nichols
• Middlebury
• Wesleyan
• Eastern Connecticut
• Colby
• Keene State
• New England College

Only one of the NESCAC teams is higher in the actual regional rankings.

Thank you for your first post.  +k

Now you need to apply your Inkplot test to St. Paulite.

[Pat Coleman]

Whatever, I can't win.

You managed to win long enough to make about 100 posts before we figured out who you were, though. Welcome back and welcome back to banned.

[WUPHF]

The ARC is getting the respect they've deserved for a long time bc of NWU's success, to go with the annual quality in the other power leagues.

Nah, the American Rivers is getting respect due to Nebraska Wesleyan, Loras, Warburg and Simpson.

[Smitty Oom]

Here's what the Northeast regional ranking would look like if determined by Massey:

• Amherst
• Hamilton
• MIT
• Williams
• Nichols
• Middlebury
• Wesleyan
• Eastern Connecticut
• Colby
• Keene State
• New England College

Only one of the NESCAC teams is higher in the actual regional rankings.

Massey gets it, go Pilgrims!

[Pat Coleman]

Loras especially when talking about 2018-19. Wartburg struck a big blow for the conference's rep with its run a couple of years ago. And yes, NWU. Having a big doorstop (did Greg Sager TM that?) makes a big difference.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Loras especially when talking about 2018-19. Wartburg struck a big blow for the conference's rep with its run a couple of years ago. And yes, NWU. Having a big doorstop (did Greg Sager TM that?) makes a big difference.

I hope Greg didn't - I've stolen that term also!