Pool C

[WUPHF]

I don't think Oshkosh making the field that year was a huge mistake. They lost in the 1st round to host Hope by just 2 points. I don't know remember everything about that year, but Hope must have been pretty good to host both the regionals and sectionals that year. Yeah, geography has some play in it as well, but still. Yeah, their SOS was off the charts, but I agree, a 10-loss team will probably never see a Pool C bid again.

Washington University was fantastic that year, but had to go on the road because the Women were hosting.  Hope beat the Bears by 14 in round two.

[deiscanton]

I don't think Oshkosh making the field that year was a huge mistake. They lost in the 1st round to host Hope by just 2 points. I don't know remember everything about that year, but Hope must have been pretty good to host both the regionals and sectionals that year. Yeah, geography has some play in it as well, but still. Yeah, their SOS was off the charts, but I agree, a 10-loss team will probably never see a Pool C bid again.

If I recall correctly, the formula of comparing SOS vs WP that was used back then to allow a 10 loss team like Oshkosh that year to remain in Pool C contention was seriously flawed.  (2 wins in W/L for every .03 difference in SOS).  The DIII basketball committees no longer use that particular formula to compare SOS and W/l pct. It really did not matter that Oshkosh played a very competitive first round game before bowing out of the NCAAs-- subjectively, people knew that Oshkosh was a very good team.  However, a lot of good teams do get left out of the NCAAs every year because the field of 64 is not big enough to accommodate every team that could make it to at least a Sweet 16 if admitted.  Due to financial and philosophical reasons, most of DIII has accepted the NCAA DIII basketball  tournaments to be more like a "Champions League" or the "proper" rounds of a domestic cup, with non-conference play, conference play (UAA) and the conference tournaments being the qualifying/preliminary rounds for the NCAAs.

Here is the article that Pat Coleman wrote back in 2017 about the UW-Oshkosh selection and the formula that was used:

d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2017/uw-oshkosh-off-charts

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I don't think Oshkosh making the field that year was a huge mistake. They lost in the 1st round to host Hope by just 2 points. I don't know remember everything about that year, but Hope must have been pretty good to host both the regionals and sectionals that year. Yeah, geography has some play in it as well, but still. Yeah, their SOS was off the charts, but I agree, a 10-loss team will probably never see a Pool C bid again.

Washington University was fantastic that year, but had to go on the road because the Women were hosting.  Hope beat the Bears by 14 in round two.

Hope's Cody Stuive went 10-11 from 3 in that game - great memory for us Hope fans!

[WUPHF]

Hope's Cody Stuive went 10-11 from 3 in that game - great memory for us Hope fans!

One of the craziest individual performances I have ever seen.  And I thought the Bears played well enough to be a lot of teams that night, but Stuive had something else in mind.

[SpringSt7]

That 2016-17 Hope team was the best non conference team I think I've seen Williams play in the regular season in a long time, and I probably think they are better than the Augustana team Williams faced in the Final Four that year as well. The only reason Williams won against Hope in OT in the Mt. Union holiday tournament, quite frankly, was because Harrison Blackledge fouled out. Blackledge and Stuive in the front court, Hawkins and Carlson in the backcourt, sheesh. I was stunned when Hanover hit that buzzer beater.

[HOPEful]

One of the craziest individual performances I have ever seen.  And I thought the Bears played well enough to be a lot of teams that night, but Stuive had something else in mind.

I can still clearly picture Cody's shrug and laugh after hitting a "heat check" three as he was falling out of bounds in the corner. It's a shot your coach screams at you for taking. Unless of course you make it on your way to 10 for 11 on the night.

Wes McKinney's dagger buzzer beater and his smug smile after is also forever burned into my memory.

[Greek Tragedy]

Stop it. You guys are giving WUPHF PTSD. LOL

[thebear]

but I agree, a 10-loss team will probably never see a Pool C bid again.

Rochester has 6 losses, They are at CWRU, at Carnegie, and host Emory last game of the season. 

They are currently ranked 1st is Region 3 with 6 losses [primarily because of their OWP, OOWP].  I could see them still getting in with 9 losses if those are to the UAA teams above them.  Their coach is on the national committee, but that should have nothing to do with them getting a bid.

[deiscanton]

but I agree, a 10-loss team will probably never see a Pool C bid again.

Rochester has 6 losses, They are at CWRU, at Carnegie, and host Emory last game of the season. 

They are currently ranked 1st is Region 3 with 6 losses [primarily because of their OWP, OOWP].  I could see them still getting in with 9 losses if those are to the UAA teams above them.  Their coach is on the national committee, but that should have nothing to do with them getting a bid.

Luke Flockerzi, by rule, has to sit out the call when Rochester is up for discussion for potential selection (and bracketing, if selected.)

Also, BTW, the rankings were alphabetical this week, so it is not official that Rochester is #1 in Region III right now.  That is what we, the fans, believe is their position.

[Greek Tragedy]

Regions 2 and 3 are soooo weak. Rochester has a 100 point lead over anyone in SOS in their region. And a lot more vRRO, so it's probably them #1. They'll be at the table first, but it could be a long wait. In Region 2, Keene St is the only legit Pool C candidate and WPI basically has to win out and lose the conference tournament final to have a Pool C shot.

[nescac1]

I'd say that it is close to a 50-50 shot whether a majority of Pool C bids go to three leagues total (NESCAC, UAA, and ODAC).  All seem VERY likely to have at least two Pool C's and UAA seems like close to a lock for at least 3.  Three each for NESCAC and ODAC and 4 for UAA seems well within the realm of possibility, especially if there are very few bid thieves elsewhere.  Currently, NESCAC and UAA each have 6 teams in the regional rankings, and ODAC four, so that alone will account for a ton of vRRO wins for the contenders from those leagues. 

Seems like WIAC, Centennial, OAC, CCIW and NJAC are the only other contenders for multiple Pool C's, and for most of them it would take some massive upsets in league tourneys for that to happen. 

[Greek Tragedy]

https://d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2023/men-regional-rankings-first

[deiscanton]

Update on Rochester after the road trip at CWRU and Carnegie Mellon-- First,a recap of the previous discussion....

but I agree, a 10-loss team will probably never see a Pool C bid again.

Rochester has 6 losses, They are at CWRU, at Carnegie, and host Emory last game of the season. 

They are currently ranked 1st is Region 3 with 6 losses [primarily because of their OWP, OOWP].  I could see them still getting in with 9 losses if those are to the UAA teams above them.  Their coach is on the national committee, but that should have nothing to do with them getting a bid.

Luke Flockerzi, by rule, has to sit out the call when Rochester is up for discussion for potential selection (and bracketing, if selected.)

Also, BTW, the rankings were alphabetical this week, so it is not official that Rochester is #1 in Region III right now.  That is what we, the fans, believe is their position.

Rochester is currently #2 in Region III, behind Oswego State.

Rochester currently has 7 losses after their 1-1 road split at CWRU (#3 in Region VII-- lost at CWRU) and Carnegie Mellon (#4 in Region VII-- won at CMU).   As a result, Rochester finished their record in UAA road games at 2-5 this season.  Rochester is currently 3-1 in UAA games held at the Louis Alexander Palestra with all 3 of their remaining UAA games at home. Although they were the preseason pick by the UAA men's basketball coaches to win the UAA, Rochester is now out of the running for the AQ (Pool A bid) and now needs a Pool C bid to make it into the NCAA DIII tournament field.

Rochester's final 3 opponents of the regular season are Brandeis, NYU (currently ranked #4 in Region IV), and Emory (currently ranked #5 in Region VI).

[Greek Tragedy]

Lots of carnage last night.

Here are Drew's new rankings.

http://www.fantastic50.net/d3h_men.html

[blue_jays]

After watching Rochester and Emory play this month, neither team is deserving of an NCAA spot. Emory may scrape in but they don't pass the eye test, especially after going 2-5 in their last 7.
I don't get the infatuation with Rochester at all, they've been flat out bad lately, and how a team finishes should matter. They're 2-4 in their last 6, including a 16-point loss at UChicago. Their 7 losses in the UAA have come by an average of 12.7 points.