Pool C

[sac]

Don't forget with the new single team host for rounds one and two........there are now a lot more options for shipping teams around.  There's nothing that says the West Coast teams have to play West Coast teams.  They could move all of them to a Midwestern area.

The question is will the NCAA do this?

I'm really hopeing they take advantage of this and try to level the regions more equally.

[Gregory Sager]

Gregory -

Backing away, again, from the top 25, Tufts does have a good profile of an at-large team. Their SOS is good, and they did a nice job against the other highly regarded NESCAC teams (split with Williams, beat Trinity and Bates).

Like 'em or not, the overall NESCAC strength of schedule is decent. Tufts has played by far the hardest schedule, though.

I've already conceded that Tufts has a good Pool C profile. As for the rest of it, the NESCAC strength of schedule is decent for a Northeast Region conference, but it's badly diluted in the national scheme of things by the fact that they play a mere single round-robin as a conference. And, while Tufts does have a good SOS by the standards of its region, as Q illustrated the SOS of the Jumbos in national terms is beggared by midwestern teams such as Carthage and Elmhurst. Even Wooster, so often maligned for playing in a conference loaded with pantywaists, has played much stiffer competition in national terms than have the Jumbos. The Scots have played four games against Top 15 competition, two against Wittenberg and one apiece against UW-Stout and Bald Wally.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I doubt the NCAA will fly two teams from the West Coast to the Midwest.  If they get three on the west coast, they can pit CMS against the pool C from the MWC and hope the MWC team wins and can drive to the Pool A team.  I think they'd rather take a chance on only one flight than guarantee two.

[sac]

Hoops Fan.........Rounds one and two will be held at ONE site.  This opens the doors for more travel.  There is no garuntee there will be a game on the West coast.  In other words all games could be at Clarmont.

Its likely they'll pair them together anyway.

[smedindy]

And, while Tufts does have a good SOS by the standards of its region, as Q illustrated the SOS of the Jumbos in national terms is beggared by midwestern teams such as Carthage and Elmhurst

49th nationally is not a slouch, especially for a non-CCIW, non-WIAC, non-OAC team.

You need to stop thinking of Top 25 exclusively, and look at the profiles of all the teams they've played

[Gregory Sager]

49th nationally is not a slouch, especially for a non-CCIW, non-WIAC, non-OAC team.

You need to stop thinking of Top 25 exclusively, and look at the profiles of all the teams they've played

I have looked at the profiles of all the teams they've played. Problem is, you're making a circular argument that's based upon a weak region. The teams that the Jumbos have played have good records, sure, but they're records accumulated against other Northeast Region teams. Since the NESCAC is the universally-acknowledged gold standard of the region (the league's ten teams went a cumulative 87-31 against non-NESCAC teams in regional play) there would've been a better test of Tufts' mettle if they had played a double round-robin within it. As it is, I'm inclined to put more weight on that 14-point loss to Wittenberg because of the paucity of NESCAC games.

[smedindy]

No, I'm not. It has nothing to do with the RECORDS of the teams they have played, at all. It's how well they are doing in the POWER RATINGS on Massey, based on MOV, of which the NESCAC is doing well (and the SOS isn't horrid).

NESCAC Power Ratings (Massey):

Amherst - 2
Tufts - 23
Bates - 31
Trinity - 41
Williams - 93
Bowdoin - 105
Connecticut College - 166

That's seven in the top half - four in the top 50. That says to me it's a strong league no matter who they are playing.

[smedindy]

I'm defending the NESCAC. Mark this date down!

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm defending the NESCAC. Mark this date down!

Noted.  On Feb 21, 2006, Smeds started hitting the sauce REALLY early!

[smedindy]

And I have to run the computer tonight - so if the Earlham / Wabash game has more assists than field goals and more steals than turnovers...hic...you know what happend...hic...

[Greek Tragedy]

Hoops Fan.........Rounds one and two will be held at ONE site.  This opens the doors for more travel. 

Not necessarily?    Couldn't Team A play at Team B in the first round and then travel to Team C that had a bye in round 1?  Or am I not understanding that statement?

I suppose the team with a bye could travel...didn't they do that last year or a couple of years ago with, I think, Mississippi College.  If they won, they'd travel, but if the other team won, that team would host?  It was all confusing! (I think Trinity, TX was in there or one of those Texas teams).

[sac]

F'instance  lets say Oxy, Claremont and Puget Sound make it in.

Puget Sound plays Claremont in Round one AT Occidental

winner plays Occidental at Oxy.


It my hope that the NCAA will move more teams around since the first and second round games will essentially be mini-sectionals.

[Pat Coleman]

Is that Occidental getting a bye?

Even if Oxy were to get one of the five byes, then that would put CMS and UPS at CMS or UPS on Thursday night, not at Oxy on Friday.

[Gregory Sager]

No, I'm not. It has nothing to do with the RECORDS of the teams they have played, at all. It's how well they are doing in the POWER RATINGS on Massey, based on MOV, of which the NESCAC is doing well (and the SOS isn't horrid).

NESCAC Power Ratings (Massey):

Amherst - 2
Tufts - 23
Bates - 31
Trinity - 41
Williams - 93
Bowdoin - 105
Connecticut College - 166

That's seven in the top half - four in the top 50. That says to me it's a strong league no matter who they are playing.

I already said that the NESCAC is a strong league. I believe the words I used were "universally-acknowledged gold standard of the region." However, because they only play nine games apiece within the conference, the NESCAC members' inherent strength of schedule (and MOV-based power rating, or any other delineator you choose to use) is diluted by spreading out the schedule among weaker teams in a weak region. And no standard of measurement worth its salt dismisses the opposition as irrelevant.

I tallied up how the Northeast Region's winning teams did against winning teams from other regions (excepting the even weaker East Region, with which there's a lot of 200-mile interplay). The Northeast Region's winning teams went 13-15 against their plus-.500 counterparts from the Middle Atlantic, Atlantic, South, Great Lakes, Midwest, and West regions -- in spite of the fact that the Northeast Region's teams averaged almost two more wins per team than their opponents. But take away the NESCAC's 6-3 record in those games, and you're left with only a 7-12 record.

It's a weak region no matter how you look at it, and the more games that NESCAC teams play against the rest of the region rather than in-house, the less of an argument you can make on their behalf.

[sac]

Is that Occidental getting a bye?

Even if Oxy were to get one of the five byes, then that would put CMS and UPS at CMS or UPS on Thursday night, not at Oxy on Friday.

Not the way I've read how the first two rounds work out as far as hosting.  Its possible this could happen.  Our far Western brothers are probably a poor example.  I just though OS didn't understand the first and second round games are at one site.

Let me try again.

First Round
Hope vs North Central
Transylvania vs Calvin
BOTH games at Calvin

Second Round
winners play at Calvin