Pool C

[Knightstalker]

Ralph, I don't know if your plan will work for the ASC, it is kind of the Rowan strategy and it isn't working that well for them.

Maybe the ASN needs to pull an NJAC go to two divisions and play double round robin schedule in division and one game each against the other divisions teams.  Or play only three teams from the other division each year, that would give you around 15 or 16 conference games and they room for cupcakes ala stevens.

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph, I don't know if your plan will work for the ASC, it is kind of the Rowan strategy and it isn't working that well for them.

Maybe the ASN needs to pull an NJAC go to two divisions and play double round robin schedule in division and one game each against the other divisions teams.  Or play only three teams from the other division each year, that would give you around 15 or 16 conference games and they room for cupcakes ala stevens.

Knight, we currently play double round robin intra-division and single round-robin interdivision to give us 20 or 21 games.

The travel is what kills our budgets.  It may cost $3000 to lease the bus for the 600-700 mile (occasionally 900-1500 mile) bus trips that may involve 2-3 nights on the road at least 6 times per year.

I believe that we have 5 strong men's program (top 100 calibre:  Miss Coll, UMHB, McM (#54 on these indices), HSU pre-season ASC-West favorite and tourney finalist, UT-Dallas the only D3 to defeat a D1 this year) and at least 6 and potentially 7 strong Women's programs (HPU, McMurry, HSU, ETBU, UMHB, Miss College and Concordia-Austin coached by former coach at USC and LA Sparks, Linda Sharp).

Several years back the conference only played 18 games including 4 crossovers.  That needs to be reconsidered.

[Knightstalker]

Ralph, that would be better or pull a MAC and form two conferences for basketball and some other sports where most of the schools have a team.  Maybe the Texican and the Mexican divisions, or even East and West if you want to be boring.   

[Pat Coleman]

Not sure any other conferences are going to get the MAC Exception.

[diehardfan]

Not sure any other conferences are going to get the MAC Exception.

Yeah, but I still think they should try.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Not sure any other conferences are going to get the MAC Exception.

Why?  It seems silly to deny other conferences that exception if they continue to let the MAC do it.



[Edit: Oh wait, we're talking about the NCAA here, aren't we?  My bad.]

[Ralph Turner]

Not sure any other conferences are going to get the MAC Exception.

Why?  It seems silly to deny other conferences that exception if they continue to let the MAC do it.
[Edit: Oh wait, we're talking about the NCAA here, aren't we?  My bad.]

If the ASC were to attempt that, they would probably be required for the seceding conference to go thru the 2-year obligatory hoops.  That might be easier for the West to accomplish than the East.

With the addition of a very few programs, they could do it.

Is it worth it for the increase in cost to duplicate services for a second conference for the sake of an extra bid in M&W Hoops, M&W Soccer, M&W Tennis, Volleyball, Softball and Baseball?  That is the question for the presidents to answer.

[Ralph Turner]

The 2008 Men's Basketball Handbook has been released. 

Pool A 38 (Pres AC is new.)
Pool B -- 4.
Pool C -- 17.

[sac]

The 2008 Men's Basketball Handbook has been released. 

Pool A 38 (Pres AC is new.)
Pool B -- 4.
Pool C -- 17.

You mean the 1st version, before they change their minds in February?

[Ralph Turner]

The 2008 Men's Basketball Handbook has been released. 

Pool A 38 (Pres AC is new.)
Pool B -- 4.
Pool C -- 17.

You mean the 1st version, before they change their minds in February?

I do have two questions about the number of D-3 contests that Lincoln, Fisk and Neb Wes will be able to schedule.

I count one D3 opponent for Lincoln.


Fisk only has 4 contests versus D-3 opponents this year.

Fisk 2007-08 schedule.

(Please use Internet Explorer to browse.  Firefox is apparently not supported by the Fisk website.)

I count at most 10 possible games versus D-3 opponents for Neb Wesleyan.

Are even 10 NebWes games enough to qualify for the post-season tourney by the Division III bylaws?

Did any school get an exemption from the NCAA?

The reason I ask is the pabegg calculated the number of schools in Pool B necessary for 4 bids is 37.  I am asking someone to help me understand how these schools qualify for Pool B.  If there are less than 37, then we get an extra Pool C bid.

[Gregory Sager]

Are even 10 NebWes games enough to qualify for the post-season tourney by the Division III bylaws?

Did any school get an exemption from the NCAA?

According to last year's D3 men's basketball handbook, each school is required to play at least half of its games against in-region D3 opponents. In order to gain an exemption to this rule, the school has to file a formal waiver request that requires a lot of homework on the part of the applicant institution (copies of recent schedules, a list of reasons why scheduling half of your games against in-region D3 opponents is an unattainable goal, pertinent historical information regarding scheduling, proposed solutions and a proposed acceptable schedule, etc.). I don't know if NebWes did this last year, or this year, or how often the school's athletic department has done it in the recent past. I do know that the number of D3 games on the NebWes schedule has fallen off precipitously in recent years. Then again, their conference (the otherwise-all-NAIA GPAC) is absolutely huge and has gotten even bigger over the past few years. That presumably means more conference games for the Prairie Wolves, and fewer available dates for D3 regional games.

[Ralph Turner]

The same 50% rule is in the 2008 Handbook.  (Page 15.)

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The same 50% rule is in the 2008 Handbook.  (Page 15.)

Yeah, but its never stopped NebWes from getting in before.  I assume they go easy on that waiver.

[pabegg]

Did any school get an exemption from the NCAA?

The reason I ask is the pabegg calculated the number of schools in Pool B necessary for 4 bids is 37.  I am asking someone to help me understand how these schools qualify for Pool B.  If there are less than 37, then we get an extra Pool C bid.

My understanding is that the count of schools in each group is independent of whether the schools will have enough games to be eligible individually. If you look at the calculations, there's no entry for teams that are under the 50%, as opposed to re-classifiers and provisionals.

So Lincoln could be out if they are reclassifying this year, while Fisk and Nebraska Wesleyan are in regardless of the number of D3 games they play.

Also, regional games against Fisk and Nebraska Wesleyan will count as part of the regional record, OWP, and OOWP whether or not they reach 50%, as will games against year 3 and 4 provisionals.

I would assume that Nebraska Wesleyan has a standing exemption from the NCAA based on their geography. They were once a basketball power (and started WashU's streak of losing to Wesleyans in the tournament, since extended by Illinois Wesleyan and Virginia Wesleyan). But they haven't been terribly good in recent years.

[David Collinge]

Ralph, I was able to access Fisk's schedule with Firefox.  Sorry if your Microsoft stock took a hit! 

I've always assumed that the purpose of the pool structure was to provide (reasonably) equal championship access for all D3 schools regardless of conference status.  In that light, it seems odd if schools that have voluntarily recused themselves from that access (via scheduling that renders them non-qualifying), they could still be used to determine the depth of the pools. 

It seems to me that the NESCAC used to disallow their schools from participating in football playoffs, and perhaps they still do (as many of you know, I don't follow football.)  That makes me wonder if these schools are part of the Pool C calculation in football; I believe the effect would be to create an additional Pool C berth based on the membership of a number of schools, disregarding the fact that these schools are voluntarily ineligible for that berth.  Football experts, is that what happens?