MBB: Conference of New England

[GC_Apologist]

I 2nd Maqs' need to delay POY hearing's until players have become consistant enough to warrant talk over it. Dec. 7th? Come on.  As far as GC being ranked goes... as fans of GC, as well as of the conference, seeing them nationally ranked would be monumental, but with their out of conference schedule, and them being in the CCC, lets not expect that exposure just yet. Do we remember last year when the Scots rolled off 18 straight wins and weren't even sniffed at until February? They need to continue to win the games that they are suppose to win, which includes Saturday's contest, and have great showings against teams like Bates, and I believe they will find the promise land come late January. 

[James]

UMASS Dartmouth rained tres on RWU shooting 50% from the arc and  beating the Hawks 72-61.

Twice in the game the Corsairs lead by as much as 17 pts. The Hawks defense that held Curry to just 14 pts in the second half the other night just wasn't there tonight.

Scoring for RWU were Barrett 16, Gumb 12, Loughton 10 and Barranger 9. Barranger lead on the rebounds with 7.

Other than Barrett the Hawks just can't find the the consistent stroke from the arc. In his freshman year Gumb shot close to .400 from the arc and Wooley had great stats as well. Neither of them seem to have any touch from outside this year.

If the Hawks have a fatal flaw it is their long range shooting. Barrett isn't going to be enough to pull out the CCC Championship.

[Maq Diesel]

If the CCC has any more nights like tonight Gordon can kiss any hope of being ranked goobye. 

CSC lost against Bowdoin
Endicott lost against WPI
Nichols lost against Worcester St
ENC lost against Emerson
Salve lost against RIC
RWU lost against UMass-Dartmouth
Curry lost against WNEC (WNEC joins the CCC in 2007-2008)

WIT beat Coast Guard
NEC beat Dainel Webster

[dwebbs]

All Conference players & POY:

At this moment it is Billy Barrett at RWU is my pick. He has scored 20 and 19 points is his last two outings and is ice from the foul line. He attacks the basket, gets to the line, outside % is great and TO's are low. So far he has it all in the PG catagory.

What are your picks?

I don't know what my name is getting dragged under the bus. I didn't say anything about this years Player of the Year. I was simply giving stats for the "best point guard in the league right now" debate, which wasn't even started by me. I support Gordon, but so do other people.

I guess my karma needs to go down a couple more points.

[anECfan]

I have yet to post this year, however I am not new to this site, and I posted frequently last season.  I am, as indicates, an EC basketball fan and am getting annoyed with all this Gordon basketball talk.  Sure they have good players, and a good team...but come on their schedule has been absolutely cake compared to ECs early season schedule.  I have a few statistics that will back up my claim.

Gordon has beaten Mt Ida whos is 3-7, MIT who is 4-5, Philadelphia Bible who is 3-4, Mitchell 3-6, WIT 3-4, and NEC who is 4-3 for a combined 20-29 record, or 9 games below .500.

Endicott has played RIC 5-1, Lasell 2-4, Keene State 5-1, Bates 8-0, MIT 4-5, UNE 1-5, and WPI 6-1 for a combined record of 31-17, or a record of 14 games above .500

Now argument shows that Gordon is 6-0 while Endicott is a lesser 2-5, but against a much harder schedule.  Endicott is playing average or subaverage play against these higher teams, but it will only get them ready for conference play, and we will see then who is the best team in the conference.  Gordon is a solid team...so far.  But lets keep in mind who is the 3-time defending CCC champions...Endicott.

[James]

dwebbs

Sorry, didn't mean to throw you under the bus. I was just adding my vote for Barrett as an All Conference Player. POY should probably go to a junior or senior

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Wow.  I totally expected two wins for the CCC last night (reference earlier post), but I in now way thought WIT would be one of them.  I know Coast Guard lost key players from last season, but this is a very nice win for the Leopards.  I was hoping RWU would pull it out, but Dartmouth is tough.  Now for the round-up:

CSC 78 Bowdoin 82.  Unusual home loss for CSC, but a close game is a better sign for them.  CSC again allowed an opponent to shoot 50% from the floor; their FG% Defense must be attrocious.  Bowdoin also shot well from three, which ultimately made a big difference in a close game.  Szelinga had 22 points, Cousins 18, Murray went 13 and 12, Trunciletto had 11 points and Fouriner had 7 assists.  The turnovers were down and the rebounding was improved.  They could still get to the line a bit more, but CSC finally seems to have the offense coming together.  Now they just have to get the defense in line.  Maybe there is a little more hope for them this year than I first thought.  On the other hand, Bowdoin is having a down year.

EC 70 WPI 81.  EC was down 13 at halftime which allowed WPI to coast a bit in the second half.  Cain and Coleman were just too much to handle for the Gulls (by the way, is EC still officially the PowerGulls or have the dropped the "power" for good?).  Sullivan went for 16 and 11, WPI presumably allowing him to roam free as they shut down Marinkovic.  They totally outrebounded WPI, but committing 35 turnovers is pretty much a guaranteed loss.  Also 6-10 vs 20-23 from the FT line is telling.

NEC 95 Daniel Webster 80.  Another high scoring affair for NEC over an absolutely attrocious opponent.  No stats yet.

NC 76 Worcester State 81.  Nichols beat Worcester State by 30 to open the season, so this one suprised me a little bit.  Vallee had 28, seemingly scoring at will.  Bryan Riley had 10 points.  Lewis has been quiet the last few games; I wonder if he's sick or something.  His shooting has been off and his minutes have been down.  This was a very even game; they just got beat.  In comparison to the first game, the big difference is that Lewis had 16 points more than he did last night.  As he goes, so goes the NC squad.

ENC 61 Emerson 83.  ENC never beats Emerson and this was no different now that Emerson actually has a home gym.  No stats from this one either.

SRU 78 RIC 84.  RIC is a very good team, so this one is actually a great result for Salve.  They're really playing well together at this point.  Goodridge had 26 along with 8 rebounds and 6 assists, Woodworth had 13 for SRU.  Salve led at the half, but RIC shot lights out for the victory.  Salve is ready to play though, sticking tough with a very good squad.

RWU 61 UMASS-Dartmouth 72.  UMASS-D came out swinging and didn't let up.  We got good info in a previous post.  Barrett 16, Gumb 12, Laughton 10.  The shooting touch just wasn't there for RWU.  Not one of their better games, but against a good opponent it shouldn't hurt them too badly.

CC 53 WNEC 70.  WNEC is playing well, another sleeper in the region and a future CCC team.  Curry again with a disappointing showing.  Wynn's got his work cut out for him to work second half magic once again with this team.  Curry only shot 33% from the floor.  Brittian led the way in scoring, but only had 15 points on 13 FG attempts.  Prescod had 13 points on 15 attempts and Bowers had 12 on 12.  They may need to do a little more with shot selection in the future.  Three-pointers and FTs weren't much better.  WNEC's guards did all the scoring, again showing that Jones is desperately needed for Curry to salvage anything.  I didn't expect them to win this one, but Curry should have been closer in the end.

WIT 58 Coast Guard 56 at Suffolk.  Good win for WIT.  Todd Doyle decided to show up for his sophomore season, even if he was a few games late.  He led the team with 23 points; Gaine had 14.  Doyle, Bolton and PBJ all had 5 or more assists as team ball helped them overcome a huge rebounding disadvantage (46 for Coast Guard to 29 for WIT).  Good showing for WIT, especially since Coast Guard has some height, which has been a big challenge for Wentworth so far.

[jj]

While I (and probably many of us) am typically annoyed by the EC vs GC banter, the last poster on the topic does make a decent point.  My feelings on the topic are simple.  If Gordon is as good or even great as they thought they were going to be this year, they should have scheduled much tougher opponents non-conference.  

Come on, they hope to be ranked nationally but schedule Mt. Ida and Mitchell in a 2 week period.  Why not throw in Bard and Daniel Webster why they are at it?   If they want to get mentioned in the same breath as some of the big boys they need to step up and play a legit schedule.  Why not schedule Amherst or Trinity (Conn)?  Even a tough loss to those teams would mean more and do more to prepare you for conference and the playoffs than a 30 point drubbing of Mitchell.  We even had a poster say after that win against Mitchell that Gordon was starting to get back on track after a slow start.  How do you know that?  And what if Gordon was to win one of those really tough games, then someone who matters might actually take notice earlier than Feb.          

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Satruday's Games
GC hosts Salem State
EC hosts Wheaton (MA)
UNE @ ME-Farmington
AMC @ Bard
WIT @ RPI
SRU @ Connecticut College


Nichols, RWU, Curry, ENC, and CSC are done until after the New Year.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

As far as Gordon goes, they are hedging their bets.  If something happens and they don't win the CCC tournament (like last year) they can rely on their record and decent QOWI number to get them in.

As far as the selection committee is concerned (because they only look at numbers) a win over Mt Ida is better than a loss to Amherst, not by much, but it is.

The way I see it, Gordon is being smart.  They don't have a nationally competitive team talent wise, but they are trying to move in that direction.  It's better to get some name recognition now, as they're building the program, to give them more clout when they finally have the players to back it up.

[bballbliss]

To "anECfan",
I can understand your frustration with the frequent mentions of Gordon College.  Endicott fans have every right to post their discouragement.  As Maq has said before, GC fans are excited about their program right now after an excellent season last year, coming off 3 less successful seasons.  The board would seem less GC centered if fans from other schools posted more often. 
Right now there is a lot of talk of Gordon because, though their schedule may not be as stacked as other schools so far, the Scots are still 6-0 over all, 2-0 in conference and are still receiving votes for the top-25 poll.  In regard to conference play, last year the Scots lost only one conference game (to EC) in regular season play.  EC had 3 conference losses in regular season play with a total record of 19-10.  Gordon's loss to CSC in the conference tournament denied them a trip for the championship, though they still won an at large bid for the NCAA's.  Both EC and GC lost in the first round of the tournament. 
All that said, it is still much too early in the season to be making calls on the 2007 tournaments.  And, as you said, conference play has just started.  GC still has several hefty match-ups in their season, including Saturday's game with Salem State and a February match-up with Bates.  But EC also lost two of its top three players in Matt George and Zach Ellis. 

Only time will tell.

[scout]

There is a lot to be said about the amount of discussion devoted to Gordon, EC, and RWU. As can be seen over the past few weeks, the subject matter has been dominated by mainly these three schools. There are reasons for this, namely that they have either been performing well (Gordon and Roger Williams), or have had interesting story lines in transition from last year (EC).

It has been beaten to death, but it is worth mentioning again: success of a program breeds fan interest. These schools apparently have done something right and it is echoed here. End of point.

Turning to the scheduling debate, as Hoops previously stated, there are numerous 'strategies' involved when the time comes to form your schedule.

There's the 'let's give our guys some experience before we start facing some tough schools' strategy: Apparently, this is the case with Gordon and NEC (with the exception of Keene St). Gordon has some new guys in the rotation, and Schauer wanted to see what he was dealing with before he accrued any unnecessary losses. It is difficult to debate the benefits of this plan, as it is merely used as a barometer for assessing a team before making the necessary changes to play against better schools. As others have stated, there are some bad things about it, too. Namely that a team goes unnoticed and trounces small schools, while other programs are roughing it against perennial powerhouses.

Then there's the 'test 'em early, and we'll make something of ourselves' strategy: Enter Endicott, and seemingly RWU. These schools have decided to play their tough games early, against Tufts, WPI, Amherst, Salem State and Keene State. More power to them. This strategy simply decides to place an underdog, but still talented team, against a more experienced opponent in the attempt to get its players to understand what it means to play at a high level.

There are many other strategies that are used, but these two are the most apparent right now in the CCC. Both work in different ways and have their pros and cons.

With the CCC being a lesser-known conference, the out-of-conference games are important. However, the goal of each program in the conference is still to win the championship come February. Endicott's had the number of each championship opponent the last three years, and, you know what? They could very well do it again this time. But the fact is this... Talent is arriving at some of these CCC schools in the forms of some new freshmen. The league is only getting better and we'll see what happens down the stretch.

[dwebbs]

Gordon and Endicott have a common out of conference opponent.

Gordon beat MIT.
MIT beat Endicott.

I don't know what that means... but it happened.

[backboard]

Congrats to WIT for beating Coast Guard and mainting some respect for the CCC.  CCC Talk was correct in saying that this team could be good, and once they get Bynes back, they might do better than thought.  For the first time this season, they played defense (against a good team) and used their speed to outbattle Coast Guard's size.  Next up for WIT is RPI at RPI on Saturday

[Maq Diesel]

I am not saying Coach Schauer is the next Jim Calhoun or Jim Boeheim but look at how those two D1 powerhouses schedule.  Play a schedule that builds a resume and confidence and then as the season goes on play tougher opponents.  Bottom line you can only win the games you play once the season gets here.  How much confidence is EC going to have come the first of the year if they are sitting at 2-6?  How much presure will they be under to win or go home at the end of the year?  Is playing the schedule they play worth that.  The QOWI, which is a major factor in who gets into the dance, rewards winning so from that stand point Gordon is putting themselves in a good position.  With that being said I would look for a tougher schedule from Gordon in future seasons, I know they want to play tougher opponents.  Bottom line you can only win the games you play once the season gets here and Gordon has won every game the have played thus far.

Hoops a question for you, how good is WPI?  Endicott turned the ball over 35 times holy cow, yet WPI only won by 11.  If that happened against Gordon or RWU, EC would be in a world of hurt.

EC fan's who is running the point for the Gull's?  I saw Whitelaw and Burton had a combined 18 turnovers.  I saw Whitelaw play in highschool and I have seen Burton a few times and neither seemed great but both were solid, but both have negative assist to turnover ratios.  Anyway who is running the point?