MBB: Conference of New England

[scout]

Also while a win is a win for Gordon, a one point overtime job against Endicott isn't exactly keeping up with the "great wins against great teams" theme.

Rivalries are a completely different story. We all know this. Drop it and let's agree that Endicott has a solid team that will win many games this year and Gordon keeps finding a way to win games.

In other news in TCCC....

Roger Williams      55      Wheaton (Mass.)      75        
Coast Guard    73    Wentworth    60       
Anna Maria    66    Becker    104       
Gordon    67    Endicott    66      
Wheelock    71    Curry    78       
Salve Regina    48    Johnson & Wales    52

Nichols and NEC haven't posted scores yet.

[dwebbs]

Endicott is going to be good. I was looking at the conference stats today, and so far, defense has been their M.O.  They'll make some noise, but what scout is saying holds water. Last year, Gordon had a better year and better seniors than EC, and came out of Beverly with a one point win. So for GC to win again tonight, in a game like that, on the road, in overtime, is impressive. How else do you explain ENC beating Gordon last year?

[backboard]

How do you know that Weonard Bynes wasn't contending for votes?  Him, also like Marstaller, didn't receive any awards but was a huge part of the Wentworth team

[Word Life]

Bynes???  C'mon dude, other than a couple nice dunks a game the kid didn't provide much to talk about.  He was a serious highlight reel, but he was no all-conference caliber player...

[backboard]

You're right, he wasn't the most consistent player.  But to say he's not much to talk about is wrong.  Ask Coach Schauer if he wasn't much.  Marstaller overall had a better career, absolutely no argument there.  But Bynes was a better inside defensive presence, ask Mike Herr.  Or ask Scout

[Word Life]

Okay, maybe a strong statement on my part.  He was a good player and any team in the league would have loved to have him.  But I guess my point is he still was not an all-conference caliber player, he definitely wasn't.  And Mr. Mike Herr loved guys who were post defenders, he wanted to stay outside and drain trey's all day.  But I will ask scout.

Scout, can you really even put Bynes and Marstaller in the same sentence?

[dwebbs]

We're getting away from the point here and instead, are referencing one play that happened at least two years ago.

Last year, Trigg outscored Doyle by over two points a game, shot over three percent better, made 46 more three's, and had more assists and steals. As a result, the coaches picked him as a second team all conference player. Doyle was third team. Some how, I doubt a block by Bynes factored into that.

This year, I already said, the stats are close. I think we're talking about the best player in the conference, not who has had the best career.

[backboard]

Fine.  Doyle is the main offense threat on his team.  He has ONE other player he can really pass the ball too, that's it.  How many does Trigg have?  You tell me.  Therefore, every single defense he goes against is geared to stop Todd Doyle.  That maybe the case for Aaron Trigg as well, but I guarantee you that changes a lot quicker than the execution against Doyle.  They're both great players, probably the two best in the league.  Let's just allow conference play determine the 'better player.'

[scout]

Let's try to settle a few of the issues here. (I love the banter, btw)

Scout, can you really even put Bynes and Marstaller in the same sentence?

You just did. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

In any case, there needs to be a distinction between Bynes and Marstaller. Marstaller, I believe, was the more 'complete player' in the sense that he could score, rebound, and impose himself defensively. Before I go any further, let me also say that for the most part Bynes was more dynamic on the defensive side. He altered shots at big points in the game and offenses tended to shy away from him in their game plans at these points.

Nevertheless, Marstaller had one heck of a package in terms of range, mobility, and knowledge of the game. While I believe Bynes was the better defender, it's hard to question the impact that Marstaller had on the game on both ends of the ball going against the likes of St. Clair and Marinkovic.

Moving on...

We're getting away from the point here and instead, are referencing one play that happened at least two years ago.

...

This year, I already said, the stats are close. I think we're talking about the best player in the conference, not who has had the best career.

This is exactly the point. Once again, the Player of the Year award is presented every year and is not dependent upon the overall body of work for a given player over the period of his career. Rather, it is solely measured upon the body of work for said given year.

The following is from TCCC Handbook, published in August 2008:

"Prior to the final regular season conference game, the conference office will send institutional sports information directors a form on which coaches will indicate nominees from their team for the all-conference teams and for each of the major individual awards....

Following the final regular-season conference game, the conference office will send institutional sports information directors a ballot listing all the nominees for the all-conference team and for each of the individual awards. Along with the ballot, the conference office will provide a report listing conference-only statistics for each of the nominees.

Coaches will be required to fax a signed and completed ballot back to the conference office by a specified deadline. Coaches may not vote for their own student-athletes and are required to vote for the specified number of individuals as designated on the ballot. A 'no-vote' will not be permitted.

Failure by a coach to submit a properly completed ballot by the balloting deadline may render student-athletes from his or her team ineligible from all-conference or major individual award recognition."

I hope this clarifies a bit of how the voting goes down and some of the nuances in how the major awards are delegated.

[Hugenerd]

Congrats to Gordon on their win tonight.  If I didnt miss anyone, Gordon is one of three remaining undefeated teams in the northeast (Amherst and Elms are the others).

In addition there has been alot of losses by teams ranked in the 17-25 range, so they could make an appearance in the top 25 on monday IF they beat a really tough Salem State team this weekend.  This game is huge for Gordon. As you all probably know, Salem State beat previously unbeaten WPI tonight, and has also handed Bowdoin their only loss of the season.  This could be a signature non-conference win for Gordon.  Salem State is probably the best team Gordon will play all season (although I am not familiar with Northwestern in MN).

Good luck on Saturday.

[scout]

The two final scores are in...

Connecticut Col.      81      Nichols      79         
Newbury    83    New England Col.    67

Overall, TCCC went 2-7.

Not including the one intra-conference game of Gordon-Endicott (non-conference), TCCC went 1-6. A rough night indeed.

TCCC teams (again not including Endicott or Gordon) posted a total of 453 points, while allowing 539. Divided by the seven games, that's an average loss of 77 to 65.

[scout]

Congrats to Gordon on their win tonight.  If I didnt miss anyone, Gordon is one of three remaining undefeated teams in the northeast (Amherst and Elms are the others).

In addition there has been alot of losses by teams iranked n the 17-25 range, so they could make an appearance in the top 25 on monday IF they beat a really tough Salem State team this weekend.  This game is huge for Gordon. As you all probably know, Salem State beat previously unbeaten WPI tonight, and has also handed Bowdoin their only loss of the season.  This could be a signature non-conference win for Gordon.  Salem State is probably the best team Gordon will play all season (although I am not familiar with Northwestern in MN).

Good luck on Saturday.

Thanks for the post. We always appreciate it when TCCC gets some outside acknowledgment.

Salem State is always a rough game, but fortunately it's a home matchup, where Gordon is on a 17-1 tear (including last season, if I'm correct). It'll be exciting no matter what. Gordon will have a link on their athletics website to watch the game live, so be sure to pass the word around for those who want a chance to take a look at some solid teams (voters especially).

Anyway, in answer to your question about Northwestern, they are a newly converted NAIA team to DIII. They have a decent program and the coach sets up some good gameplans. They actually traveled to Gordon last year and played a game that Gordon won. Coach Schauer at Gordon and the Northwestern coach have some ties somewhere.

Anyway, thanks again.

[Hugenerd]

No problem.  I really think this game means alot to Gordon for the rest of the season.  It will be a game people inside and outside the northeast use to measure them the rest of the season (with the emergence as Salem State as a top team).  We saw what happened to Emerson last year (24-5), who lost in their conference tourney but didnt get an at large bid because of the weak GNAC, even though they had wins against Babson, William Patterson, MIT, and Lasell.  If Salem State continues to play well and Gordon can get a W on Saturday, it could mean a lot later on.

It may help if you could get those same refs from the MIT game , just kidding.

Good luck.

[yeah buddy]

backboard,
as much as I vouch for Trigg as the best player in this league I can absolutely see the argument with Doyle. he is indeed a good player and we will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

but the bynes/marstaller comparison...c'mon...

[backboard]

We're both obviously biased which is great, but just take a look at the numbers.  Here are the numbers in the 6 head-to-head matchups between Bynes and Marstaller:

Bynes--> 9.5 points, 7.5 boards
Marstaller-->  11.6 points, 5.1 boards

Although Marstaller played against WIT 7 times, Bynes was absent from one game.  If you factor the numbers from that game, Marstaller's adjusted line would be 12.2 points, 5.4 rebounds.

The discrepancy is basically 2 points and 2 boards.  The comparison isn't so ridiculous as you may think.

Now Bynes only scored 542 points in his career.  Marstaller easily doubled him.  But you couldn't blame Bynes for being in a guard system and cudous for Marstaller for scoring 1000+. 

I just realized Bynes was only a three year player.  He was also injured quite frequently and I doubt Marstaller missed more than 5 games, if any, in his career.

Who's the better rebounder?  If you say Marstaller you haven't seen Bynes play.

Overall, sure Marstaller might be better.  But it's hardly over-whelming