MBB: Conference of New England

[Maq Diesel]

Someone said the the new conference will not have an AQ for tournaments for any sport, is this true?  It can't be, I am guessing there might be a one year waiting period before the new conference gets an AQ, but then they should have all the rights and responsibilities that they have now.  Does anyone know the answers to this question?

[Ralph Turner]

Someone said the the new conference will not have an AQ for tournaments for any sport, is this true?  It can't be, I am guessing there might be a one year waiting period before the new conference gets an AQ, but then they should have all the rights and responsibilities that they have now.  Does anyone know the answers to this question?

The new conference will be put into Pool B for 2 years, as we have seen with the Landmark Conference, the UMAC, and the New England Collegiate Conference (NECC).  The New Conference should have its AQ's by 2013-14.

The TCCC will retain the AQ and have 2 years to add affiliates or new members to get up to the seven required members per sport.  There are some specific rules such as sponsoring 5 men's and 5 women's sports, at least one in each season and 3 sports must be team sports.  It will take 7 participants to keep the AQ.

Corrections to this post are appreciated, but that is the gist of the challenge to those remaining in the TCCC.

[Ralph Turner]

My first thought was, "Who joins in the New England shuffle?"

I think that we once discussed the New England "pecking order" as something like this.

NESCAC
NEWMAC
LEC
TCCC/MASCAC
GNAC
NAC
NECC

What do we have now?

NESCAC
NEWMAC
LEC  (Public)
New Conference (Private)/MASCAC(Public)
TCCC
GNAC
NAC
NECC

[Hugenerd]

My first thought was, "Who joins in the New England shuffle?"

I think that we once discussed the New England "pecking order" as something like this.

NESCAC
NEWMAC
LEC
TCCC/MASCAC
GNAC
NAC
NECC

What do we have now?

NESCAC
NEWMAC
LEC  (Public)
New Conference (Private)/MASCAC(Public)
TCCC
GNAC
NAC
NECC

I would think the remaining 5 in the TCCC would fall lower than that, as it stands now.  Those teams were a combined 48-79 (24-41) last year.  The top of the GNAC (Albertus Magnus, Emerson, St. Joseph's) and NECC (Elms, Becker, and Wheelock) will be stronger than the top of the remaining TCC (Colby-Sawyer, Anna Maria, Regis), so only the NAC will be comparable (although they could be stronger also).

If I had to rank them, it would be NESCAC, NEWMAC, LEC, MASCAC, New Conference, GNAC, NECC, TCCC, and NAC.  That is all based heavily on last year, though, as a many teams lose a whole bunch of their fire powerv (Gordon, Emerson, etc), while others return nearly everyone (MIT, Albertus Magnus).  Things can obviously shift year to year, but the 5 remaining TCCC teams are not overly impressive.  The best record of any of those 5 teams last year was 15-12.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The CCC will obviously try to pick up a couple schools to keep the AQ, but a few things here really make little sense to me.  The biggest being why Colby-Sawyer wasn't included in the move.

We'll have to see about Curry.  If it is indeed a nine team conference it probably has something to do with the smaller sports - I'm not up on who participates in what at this point.

As we've seen with other moves in NE recently, there may still be a number of changes forthcoming.

I don't expect Colby-Sawyer to stay in the CCC unless they have no other options.

[Ralph Turner]

My first thought was, "Who joins in the New England shuffle?"

I think that we once discussed the New England "pecking order" as something like this.

NESCAC
NEWMAC
LEC
TCCC/MASCAC
GNAC
NAC
NECC

What do we have now?

NESCAC
NEWMAC
LEC  (Public)
New Conference (Private)/MASCAC(Public)
TCCC
GNAC
NAC
NECC

I would think the remaining 5 in the TCCC would fall lower than that, as it stands now.  Those teams were a combined 48-79 (24-41) last year.  The top of the GNAC (Albertus Magnus, Emerson, St. Joseph's) and NECC (Elms, Becker, and Wheelock) will be stronger than the top of the remaining TCC (Colby-Sawyer, Anna Maria, Regis), so only the NAC will be comparable (although they could be stronger also).

If I had to rank them, it would be NESCAC, NEWMAC, LEC, MASCAC, New Conference, GNAC, NECC, TCCC, and NAC.  That is all based heavily on last year, though, as a many teams lose a whole bunch of their fire powerv (Gordon, Emerson, etc), while others return nearly everyone (MIT, Albertus Magnus).  Things can obviously shift year to year, but the 5 remaining TCCC teams are not overly impressive.  The best record of any of those 5 teams last year was 15-12.

Does that ranking of athletic competency/emphasis/prowess extend to sports other than basketball?  You can leave out football (NEFC) if you wish.

[Hugenerd]

I was just doing it for basketball, I dont follow any other sports closely on the collegiate level (except D1 football).

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I guess I was a year late on this announcement.  There must really have been either some intense fighting or intense secrecy to this whole thing.  I expected a few of the remaining CCC schools to be contacted by the NECC.  In a perfect world, the "leftovers" would have left the conference and kept the top teams in the CCC and not forfeited the AQ.

I'm just not sure what the new CCC will look like.  I don't think it will end up pretty.

[Ralph Turner]

Here is my post from the Future of Division III Board for our consideration.

I have placed this quote from an archival post that I made in Feb 2009 on the board for our consideration.

NEAC-NAC affiliation for baseball, women's lacrosse, and men's and women's tennis.

Here is some creative leadership among these two conferences to maintain an AQ bid.

This preserves the opportunities for student-athletes in these sports.

Feb 4, 2009

NAC, NEAC enter partnership to expand associate membership

The North Atlantic Conference (NAC) and North Eastern Athletic Conference (NEAC) have entered into a partnership to expand associate membership. The NEAC will gain associate members in the sports of baseball and women's tennis while the NAC will add members for  men's tennis and women's lacrosse.

The partnership, which impacts nearly all of the current NEAC and NAC membership, provides a conference championship opportunity for student-athletes of both geographically diverse conferences.

"The North Atlantic Conference is committed to providing equitable opportunities for our student-athletes in all sports," said Dave Wolk, President of Castleton State College and Chair of the NAC Presidents Council. "This partnership will help us meet this goal in sports where conference sponsorship is limited. Both conferences support the Division III philosophy and we welcome the opportunity to join with like-minded institutions to ensure the best possible experiences for all student-athletes."

In the sport of baseball, NAC members Castleton, Husson, Lyndon St., Maine-Farmington and Thomas will join the NEAC as associate members. Divisional play will begin in the spring of 2010. Each division will hold a championship and the two divisional champions will meet for a three game series to determine the conference champion. The conference championship site will rotate between the WEST (hosted at either SUNY Cobleskill or SUNYIT) and the EAST (hosted by Castleton). The NEAC will maintain the automatic qualifier they currently hold to the NCAA Division III Championship.

NEAC members Cazenovia, College of St. Elizabeth, Keuka, Penn. St-Abington, Wells and Wilson will join the NAC as associate members in women's lacrosse. Medaille, a current NEAC associate member, will join the NAC as well. Divisional play will begin in the spring of 2010. Each division will hold a championship and the two divisional champions will meet for a conference champion game. The conference championship site will rotate between the EAST (hosted at either Castleton or Green Mountain) and the WEST (hosted by SUNYIT or SUNY Cobleskill). Beginning in 2010, the NAC will begin a two year waiting period to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA Division III Championship.

A similar divisional structure will begin for men's and women's tennis in the spring of 2010. NAC members Castleton, Johnson St., Lyndon St. and Thomas will join the NEAC as associate members in women's tennis. Divisional play for the EAST will be in the fall with a divisional champion crowned. The WEST division will compete in the spring and the two divisional champions will meet for the conference championship in the spring. The NEAC will maintain the automatic qualifier they currently hold to the NCAA Division III Championship.

In men's tennis, NEAC members Keuka, Penn St.-Abington, Penn St.-Berks, Penn St.-Harrisburg and SUNY Cobleskill will join the NAC as associate members. SUNY Oneonta, a current NEAC associate member, will join the NAC as well. Both divisions will compete in the spring with the divisional winners meeting for the conference championship. In 2010, the NAC will begin a two year waiting period to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA Division III Championship.

"I think this new initiative presents a great opportunity for our Conference and our student athletes," said Keuka College President Dr. Joseph G. Burke who currently serves as Chair of the NEAC President's Council. "We increase our regional exposure and our student athletes have the opportunity to play against teams that they would not normally have the opportunity to play."

NEAC Sponsored Sports    
Baseball
       
EAST
Castleton
Husson
Lyndon St.
Maine-Farmington
Thomas

WEST
Cazenovia
Keuka
Penn St.-Abington
Penn St.-Berks
Penn St.-Harrisburg
SUNY Cobleskill
SUNYIT
   
Women's Tennis
EAST
Castleton
Johnson St.
Lyndon St.
Thoma

WEST
Col. of St. Elizabeth
Keuka
Penn St.-Abington
Penn St.-Berks
Penn St.-Harrisburg
SUNY Cobleskill
Wells
Wilson

NAC Sponsored Sports   
Men's Tennis

EAST
Castleton
Green Mountain
Johnson St.
Lyndon St.
Thomas

WEST
Keuka
Penn St.-Abington
Penn St.-Berks
Penn St.-Harrisburg
SUNY Cobleskill
SUNY Oneonta
   
Women's Lacrosse
EAST
Green Mountain
Husson
Maine-Farmington
Thomas

WEST
Cazenovia
Col. of St. Elizabeth
Keuka
Medaille
Penn St.-Abington
Wells
Wilson

Copied for archival purposes...

With the departure of 9 schools from The Commonwealth Coast Conference, leaving 5 schools in the TCCC, is there are chance that the North Atlantic Conference picks up some of the TCCC's remaining schools?

How about an affiliation agreement between the TCCC and the NAC in about 2013-14 when the AQ for TCCC has expired?  The NEAC is in a position to pick up any PSU-schools that want to move to D-III.  We already have PSU-Abington and SUNY-Cobleskill in the provisional pipeline for the NEAC.

It looks like some shuffling will occur.

Is the North Atlantic Conference just not a good geographic fit?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't see the remaining teams matched up too well in terms of sports sponsored.  Again I find it hard to believe they'll add teams.  Obviously there was no way for the other nine to expel these members or they would have done so and kept all the AQs.

I think the NAC makes sense for NEC and maybe Colby-Sawyer.  CSC has always seemed to enjoy being a big fish in a small pond, but the NAC might be too small a pond for their liking.

I wonder if the GNAC or the NECC might consider adding two teams (AMC, Regis, or ENC would make some sense here).

The issue is having five teams.  Often a conference doesn't want to end up with odd numbers.

I suspect the first move would be for the remaining CCC teams to pick off a few schools, especially from the NECC where there's no AQ yet.

With Anna Maria, ENC, Regis, Becker, Wheelock, Lesley, Newbury, and Daniel Webster - you'd have eight schools no more than an hour apart of a similar size and with similar athletic departments.

Becker doesn't run XC, Wheelock and Regis have no baseball teams (but both are women's schools transitioning to co-ed recently so that may be a future addition).  This conference could run a full slate of baseball/softball, m/w soccer, m/w XC, m/w Tennis, m/w Basketball, and w Volleyball pretty much from the get-go.

[Ralph Turner]

I don't see the remaining teams matched up too well in terms of sports sponsored.  Again I find it hard to believe they'll add teams.  Obviously there was no way for the other nine to expel these members or they would have done so and kept all the AQs.

I think the NAC makes sense for NEC and maybe Colby-Sawyer.  CSC has always seemed to enjoy being a big fish in a small pond, but the NAC might be too small a pond for their liking.

I wonder if the GNAC or the NECC might consider adding two teams (AMC, Regis, or ENC would make some sense here).

The issue is having five teams.  Often a conference doesn't want to end up with odd numbers.

I suspect the first move would be for the remaining CCC teams to pick off a few schools, especially from the NECC where there's no AQ yet.

With Anna Maria, ENC, Regis, Becker, Wheelock, Lesley, Newbury, and Daniel Webster - you'd have eight schools no more than an hour apart of a similar size and with similar athletic departments.

Becker doesn't run XC, Wheelock and Regis have no baseball teams (but both are women's schools transitioning to co-ed recently so that may be a future addition).  This conference could run a full slate of baseball/softball, m/w soccer, m/w XC, m/w Tennis, m/w Basketball, and w Volleyball pretty much from the get-go.

NECC should earn its AQ this summer for the 2010-11 season.

Lesley is adding baseball in 2011.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't see the remaining teams matched up too well in terms of sports sponsored.  Again I find it hard to believe they'll add teams.  Obviously there was no way for the other nine to expel these members or they would have done so and kept all the AQs.

I think the NAC makes sense for NEC and maybe Colby-Sawyer.  CSC has always seemed to enjoy being a big fish in a small pond, but the NAC might be too small a pond for their liking.

I wonder if the GNAC or the NECC might consider adding two teams (AMC, Regis, or ENC would make some sense here).

The issue is having five teams.  Often a conference doesn't want to end up with odd numbers.

I suspect the first move would be for the remaining CCC teams to pick off a few schools, especially from the NECC where there's no AQ yet.

With Anna Maria, ENC, Regis, Becker, Wheelock, Lesley, Newbury, and Daniel Webster - you'd have eight schools no more than an hour apart of a similar size and with similar athletic departments.

Becker doesn't run XC, Wheelock and Regis have no baseball teams (but both are women's schools transitioning to co-ed recently so that may be a future addition).  This conference could run a full slate of baseball/softball, m/w soccer, m/w XC, m/w Tennis, m/w Basketball, and w Volleyball pretty much from the get-go.

NECC should earn its AQ this summer for the 2010-11 season.

Lesley is adding baseball in 2011.

Well then, I suspect the Mass teams from the CCC will be looking to get in there or the GNAC.  I think the NECC is more likely to take them.

NEC is a good fit for the NAC - maybe they can convince CSC to go with them.

I'm not sure the remaining CCC teams have the credibility or clout to get teams to leave a conference to join them.  I do feel bad for the CCC Commissioner; the conference existed for more than two decades without one, now they hire one and he gets two or three seasons before he's out of a job.  Although, he may be going to the new conference with everyone else.

[boston ball 56]

There was a meeting between the presidents of 10 schools. Based on information provided by AD's and SID's for lack of a better phrase everyone was not invited to the party. The information given covered a few areas.... What schools had for facilities and fields. How well they have faired in league play with their various sports and how well they report results etc. The schools invited fit the criteria for the party. There was a vote taken about starting a new conference. The vote went in alphabet order. The first school to vote abstain. The other nine schools voted yes. The first school did not get a chance to vote again. That is what I heard, you guys can figure it out who the lone school to abstain was......... Again I was not there. Time will tell how this plays out. Hey if not for that this board would be dormant now. Everyone have a great summer and remember GO C?

[Maq Diesel]

Not saying I don't buy your story but I highly doubt that AMC, one of the weaker schools both academically, athletically, and facility wise in the current TCCC was asked to the meeting, and a school like CSC was left out.  Maybe I am wrong, but that is just my feeling. 

Over all I think this "cutting of the fat" so to speak, makes this new conferences one of the top overall conferences in the New England for all sports, not just basketball.  I would rate the conferences as follows:

1. NESCAC
2. NEWMAC
3. NEW Conference/LEC
4. MASCAC
5. GNAC/NAC
6. NECC

[akirk]

Does anyone have any idea what other school the new conference will target to get a automatic bid?