MBB: Conference of New England

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

One, UNE was better last year then they have been in a while, sad but true.

We were saying the same thing about CSC last year, that they would run away with things.  As talented as this senior class is, they always seem to have a way of not quite making it to expectations.  St Clair is one of the better players this conference has ever seen, but it just seems like winning is not a life or death issue for him.

I know john may have something to say about that, so I want to clarify.  Andrew is a competitor.  I've seen him battle through the muggings and the triple teams.  I'm not taking away from his drive or determination.  I know he's worked his butt of for many years to get here.  I think he just understands that this is college ball and that it's supposed to be fun.  He's got the right attitude, especially for a d-III athlete.  He's giving his all and he's disappointed with losses, but he knows that tomorrow is no different with the outcome.  Could he get better results with an all-or-nothing attitude, sure, but I think he's better off in the long run with the mindset he has.  Lots of credit to john on that one.

All that being said,  St Clair is a shoo in for another POY and CSC should be the cream of the crop again.  With their schedule and the expanded national tourney, even a CCC championship loss could get them in.

RWU will be good; I agree with you on that one.  I don't want to get into too many details before I see rosters and some early game scores.

[john]

re hoops fan.......... andrew st. clair has never been a flashy player and never will. what he will do is get the job done the best that he can.i know what you are talking about when you menetion that certain thing that some players have and i agree with you. also i do think he can get player of the year again but i think i am more proud of him then most other people..............  john

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I did my best to say what I thought without giving any disrespect, which I don't want to do.  It just seems, from my observations, that when kids take the game too seriously they are able to summon something extra to play above their talent level.  Andrew St Clair is one of the best players I've seen in the CCC in a long time, but he doesn't have that over-committed killer instinct you sometimes see in players.  I was just commenting that it is a great thing to be missing that.  Perhaps if a player were going pro, that would be necessary, but in Division three ball, Andrew seems to typify what a player should be, talented, hard-working and committed, but he has an uncanny ability to understand his situation and limitations.  I'm not a CSC fan by any means, but I think in this last year we need to say something about the contribution he's made to his team and the overall profile of the league.

OK, let's get to the games, so we can stop with all this sentimental crap.

[CCC Fan]

CSC did lose Condon and Putnam (half way though last year).  Thorpe will have to be a real presence and they will need some new faces before CSC runs away with anything. 

[CCC Fan]

CSC has a schedule up.  Nothing too different.  They open at the Keene State tourney and also have the Springfield tourney this year.

[Trueball38]

While everyone is talking about CSC, EC, GC what about Curry.  They still have there starters coming back and then some they have a nice class of freshmans coming in this season.  Plus Lamb is still there, and his presence is enough, but you also have James Bartelle who is one of the most under rated players right now in D3 basketball with that beautiful jump shot, and there's Tim Jones an outstanding guard, Micheal Morhin who lead them in scoring last season.  Those are four unbeliveable players that are ready to claim the CCC for themselves.  Malcom Wynn is ready for this season I just hope these other teams are ready for them.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think I spent enough time hyping Wynn and the Colonels last season only to be frustrated by the fact that they only have four players on the team.  sure they can beat half the league with those four guys, but the were consistantly inconsistant and utterly disappointing to me.  Sure they bring back a solid team, but they seemed to be better coming in to last year.  Lesson one in the CCC is don't get your hopes up until mid-January.  They'll probably be right in there at the top of the South, but I don't think they deserve too much hype, not until they earn it.  Wynn is a fantastic coach (strange that he would move from a high profile JUCO job to the CCC, must be good money) but he has to combat a long history of lax discipline and low committment to basketball at CC.  They are moving in the right direction, but again, I can't give them too much hype before they've earned it.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I know its still very early, but that CSC schedule could be amazing for them this year.  They get Brandeis at home, which will be key, especially since I expect Brandeis to break out for a pretty good record this year.  They also get the chance to play in a tournament with Springfield, Bates, and Trinity (TX).  Two wins puts them on the national radar, especially if they take the tourney, which I do not think is beyond their ability.  They only have 4 non-conference games on the sched right now, so I expect a few more to be added.  If they return the top five from last year (St. Clair, Thorpe, Kenny, Bray and Fournier) they will be tough.

Similarly, Endicott's schedule is fierce.  If they can perform well it will certainly merit some regional ranking, but opening at Amherst with games against Bates and WPI, they will certainly be tested.

Curry has similarly tried to dial up the non-conference sched, as has UNE (although not much).  ENC, Gordon and Wentworth have all gone easy with their non-conference, with good reason for most cases.

No one else has posted schedules yet.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Any early word on how freshmen look in pick-up games?  I heard ENC is going to be all-freshmen yet again.  They expect five returners from last year's squad and possibly 9 freshmen on the roster.  Word I have is that "they will be better than last year for sure" not that that says a whole lot, but it could be something.

[areahoopsfan]

Thanks to Hoops Fan for keeping the room active with some good leading questions...

In terms of posted schedules, the CCC is really looking to step up to many challenges.  Endicott, Curry, and CSC are all playing tough non league slates.  So is RWU (Conn, Lasell, Brandeis, WPI).  I even think WIT's is very challenging (Coast Guard, RPI, Marymount, and Farmington who is traditionally solid).

Maybe with these schedules, the CCC can surpass a league like the NEWMAC in terms of consistent strength.

I wouldn't be surprised if UNE is vastly improved.  They have a number of seniors who have played significant minutes (McManus, Regis) as well as solid players in Farynaz and Oliver.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Wentworth is making a consciencious effort to improve the level of their program.  I like that.  NEC is doing it as well, although with miuch less success.  Overall, I think the CCC has come a long way in the last five years even.  Back then CSC was the only team that remotely scared anybody and even then it wasn't much.  Now Endicott has become a regional presence, RWU and SRU are using their money to actually recruit actively, Curry got probably the best coach in New England who would actually be willing to change jobs.  I think the CCC has passed the MASCAC and is on par with the LEC, nipping at the heels of the NEWMAC.  I don't think the NESCAC will ever be topped in terms of basketball in New England.

A lot of problems people have in measuring the CCC against other regional conferences is with the numbers.  If you try to measure top to bottom against the NEWMAC it doesn't work.  The CCC has 12 teams.  I measure success by how the top 3 or 4 teams in each conference do against the other major conferences.   CSC has, over the last couple years, played Amherst very tough.  EC and CSC are now competing against the best teams in the LEC and NEWMAC and seem to be evenly matched.  THe lower teams are harder to judge.  What I like to use is the scheduling they commit to.  WIT has scheduled tougher opponents this year because they have a good recruiting class and they want to improve the program.  That is a good sign for me.  however, if they lose all their non-conference games by double digits, a tough schedule means crap.  I like a school that knows its team well enough to schedule accordingly.  NEC schedules low because they've had low expectations.  A good year last year coupled with another one this year (good by their standards) should mean an improved non-con next season.  I judge leagues on a progression.  By that standard the CCC is definately moving up the ranks.

Sorry I took so much space, but we'll have plenty of time to discuss it more throughout the year.  It just seems that with the schedule being the determining factor in post-season play for at large bids, that it should be the measure by which teams and conferences are judged.

[mustang23]

I have to disagree. I believe the conference order goes like this.....Nescac, Newmac, LEC, Mascac....

The newmac is obviously the favorite. The only league i see competing with them is possibly Brandeis' leauge. The Newmac is good, but also has its weak teams. I think the LEC is slowly moving up and can be second with a couple more years. And the Mascac is next. If you look at head to head matchups i would say the Mascac is better than the csc. However the mascac only has like 6 or 7 teams so it can look like it is not as good.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't really disagree with your order at all.  I would put the CCC over the MASCAC, however, certainly the worst teams in the MASCAC are better than the worst teams in the CCC, but again that is because of the extra teams in the CCC.  However, Salem State is the only legitimate regional contender in the MASCAC.  They routinely beat Salve and Gordon by ten points, which puts them ahead of the middle class in the CCC, but the schedule they play and the losses they get each year, put them even with or behind CSC and EC.  Salem State is the best the MASCAC has to offer and there is quite a drop off after that.  I can't justify having the MASCAC ahead of the CCC. 

The LEC has five teams that can be powers in any given year, with that sort of solid consistency, they deserve to be even with or above the CCC.  This is the comparison that draws problems for me.  Obviously, CSC and EC took care of the top two teams in the LEC last year in the post-season.  They have also had success over Plymouth and Keene in recent years.  To me that signifies that the top of the CCC is above the top of the LEC, however, WConn, RIC, Keene and Plymouth all routinely top the rest of the CCC.  The bottom of the CCC is well below the bottom of the LEC.  To me that means they are reletively even matched, although things could go wither way.

The NEWMAC has a good history of being the undisputed #2 in New England.  WIT and Springfield both had good years last year to keep the reputation high.  Springfield has Curry and CSC on the schedule this year, so we will get a good idea of their placement.  WIT has no CCC team on the schedule, but they should be superior to all but the absolute top of the CCC (it would be an upset in CSC were to beat them in the playoffs this year, although not much of one).

So there are the numbers as I see them.  NESCAC and NEWMAC on top, LEC and CCC flighting for 3rd (something that will have to hold up over several seasons to make me a believer) and the MASCAC fourth.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Did you see the Springfield tournament field this year?  Bates, Springfield, Colby-Sawyer and Trinity (TX).  That's the closest thing to "Bracket Buster" I've seen in D3.  It could be a big deal for Bates and CSC if they do well.

[areahoopsfan]

Hoops Fan, I agree with your assessment of the MASCAC and the CCC.  However, the cold numbers from last year tell us differently:

The CCC was 2-8 against the MASCAC last year with the two CCC wins coming from Nichols and Wentworth.

So the bottom teams of the CCC were the ones that had success which kind of throws your theory about the MASCAC's bottom being better than the CCC's bottom. 

Personally, I think last year's numbers were a fluke.  I think the CCC is a stronger conference because they don't possess the drop off the MASCAC does after their top teams:  Teams like Salve can beat a Curry but Worcester State and Bridgewater still get swept by Salem.