MBB: Conference of New England

[Maq Diesel]

Hoops,

I hear you mention quit frequently that you think the NAC GNAC and possible the CCC are going to split off and form some better more regionally aligned conferences but, I have heard that Gordon is talking with the NEWMAC about joining that conference and leaving the CCC, and I have also heard poeple in the know say that in two years the CCC is going to look completly different.  I dont know which one is going to happen but I believe it is going to be some combination of both.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Gordon cutting off sounds plausible.  I think there will just be a big shifting around of teams.  Especially with so many provisionals coming up over the next few years in New England.  They could put together a decent conference of just Maine schools, which would help with travel and stuff for them.  It seems to me that the wise move for the smaller, poorer and athletically slimmer schools to try and arrange something geographically instead of covering larger distances like the NESCAC does.  I'm sure the NEWMAC would take one more, although Gordon seems a bit of an odd choice.

You only need seven teams to maintain the Automatic bid.  The only problem is that the NCAA voted down the resolution of skipping the provisional period for new conferences formed by teams from old conferences.  That means teams can't get booted, because there has to be some continuity of conference name.  The CCC could throw out one school, but if they tried to get rid of four or five, those lower schools could band together and block it.

CSC, NEC, EC and GC have very similar philosophies in terms of academics and athletics.  It's hard to tell where everyone would fall, however, because I don't know enough about who offers which sports and who is planning to add sports, etc.  I just think there is a massive NE realignment coming.

You've got ten teams each in the NAC and GNAC, five more IND/provisionals.  Twelve teams in the CCC.  If one or three of them migrate to the NEWMAC, it still leaves 34 teams.  St Joe's of Vermont is in a exploratory yeat and could bee full d3 in five? I think.  You could end up with or four or even potentially five conferences if they get smart.

The only problem is that the schools will never work together like the d1 squads do, so it will probably end ugly and all mixed up.  The only thing I know for sure are big changes will be coming.

[Big Hoss]

I'm glad my comment wasn't seen as too abrasive, just thought I'd way in on how I felt, but as we all know, opinions are like a$$holes, everyones got one.  I for one am excited about the finish to this season.  With CSC down, all EC fans can hope for is a loss to CC, who they must play as well.  This could be a huge roadblock for both teams.  As we all know, Curry is capable of playing very well, or very poorly, so who will show up this time is in question.  This brings me to my last point, CCC tie-breakers.  I know they exist for a reason, but with home court at stake, it doesn't seem fair to go to overall record right away.  For example, if I were CSC and lost a tie breaker to a team who played much weaker non conference schedule, such as Gordon, I would be irate.  CSC home court advantage is immeasurable in value to them.  From their perspective, why must they be penalized for taking on the best competition (Keene St., Trinity TX. etc...)  That's just my two cents, if you don't agree thats fine but it just seems like a CSC or EC team could have the chance to go undefeated any given season if they scheduled weak non conference teams(Johnson st., Worcester St.)

[akirk]

Big Hoss,

You so quickly through out those two games but neglect to say that GORDON beat MIT at MIT.  This was a huge away win.  A team that has a better record than both CSC and EC.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

OK, for the final time, overall record is not one of the criteria, ever.  Not at all, they flip a coin before they go to overall record.

First is head-to-head, second is in-division record (ie, North or South)
Second is cross-division record (ie North or South, whichever you are not in)
Third is top-to-bottom in division (ie record vs #1, if tied, record vs #2, and so on)
Fourth is top-to-bottom cross-division (see #3)
Fifth is record vs common non-conference opponents
Sixth is overall record vs. .500 teams
Seventh is coin toss

People talk about going to overall record because if GC and EC are tied with one loss to each other, the rest of the tie-breakers are even to the 6th.  GC will win that simply because EC lost to most .500 teams it played.  I guess you can make the case that GC will win with a "weaker" schedule, but you can't say how they could have performed against that schedule.  It seems tough, but the chances GC could have won one game out of Amherst, Wheaton, Keene, WPI, Springfield and Hamilton is pretty good.  All they would have had to do was play one of them and win.

It's not the way I'd go, but it sure makes tie-breakers exciting and hard to figure out.

[24/7/365]

The only way this year could be better is if we have a coin flip.  It would just add the exclamation point.

[broke_ya_ankles]

I'm almost positive the CCC adds at least one more the fall of 2007, i wouldnt be suprised if a big shake up took place then as well........

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I heard rumor that WNEC was already approved for 2007, but I have no official confirmation on that one.

[broke_ya_ankles]

WNEC is approved for this coming fall i believe

[dsd bag]

First of all, I would like to respond to akirk, and the comment about MIT.  One Gordon win at MIT is nothing to write home about when you take into consideration the rest of their out of conference schedule.  I mean seriously, Framingham St., Westfield St., Johnson St., Mount Ida?  Compare that to a schedule such as Endicott whose schedule can be found in one of Hoops' latest posts, although I do disagree with the statement that Gordon would win one of those games.  That is quite a bold statement.  I think its going to be a HUGE disappointment if the home court advantage comes down to Endicott and Gordon and is decided by the fact that GC has a better out of conference winning % against schools with a .500 or better record.  That would discount the extremely tough schedule EC had to deal with.  And since this is my first post since the latest EC-GC matchup, I would just like to point out that other than the first 10-13 minutes of the game, EC dominated the game.  GC could not play better, and EC could not play worse, and for that game to end in a 5 point decision, should disappoint GC supporters. And take into consideration that EC played that game without Joey Burgos (who someone hyped as one of the best athletes in the CCC after the first game) who could have changed teh dynamic of the game dramatically.  And in response to the posts about the GC fan base, after being at the game, it was quite obvious that they did not do anything to get to EC.....if they cannot get into EC's head when they are up by 20+, then I don't think that they can be compared to the Cameron Crazies or even the EC fans for that matter......and just one more point, if I am not mistaken, the only banners hanging in the gym in Wenham are for intramurals, and if you travel over to Beverly or New London (CSC), you will see a number of postseason banners hanging in the rafters, which points to the positive postseason experience that has been lived by the players at EC and CSC, which will be a huge asset for them.

[24/7/365]

Finally!  We have a worthy Coach K substitute. 

In addressing the first point made by dsd.  We can argue hypothetical match-ups, but the fact is, we are never going to know.  All we do know is that EC could barely hang with their own schedule, so that's all we have. 

Secondly, it's not as though the teams, EC or GC, have a giant say in who and where they play.  Those decisions remain for the Athletic Director, and the schedule these games years in advance.  So they try to match-up the talent they play with the talent of their team.  SO these teams were reasonable for past GC teams.  But we can see that that is no longer the case.  I know that Coach Schauer and his players would love to see how they would perform against the elite of the New England area.  That being said, they are 3 for 4 against EC and CSC.

Thirdly, who cares if EC played better than GC after the first 13 minutes.  The fact is they got whooped.  Even if a team plays better than the other for 39 minutes, it doesn't matter, because they lost.  I understand you are trying to salvage any scrap of positivety that came out of that game for you, but you are scraping the bottom of the barrel on that one.

Fourthly, both EC and GC were playing with out key players.  EC was missing Burgos and GC was missing their STARTING PG in that of Logan.  So that argument is completely a wash and has no barring on the game what-so-ever.  If anything GC was at more of a disadvantage that EC was with a freshman who comes off the bench.

Fifthly, the fact that EC was even down 20+ makes the argument that the GC faithful were not only in their head, they were able to shut them down mentally.  But I think you are missing the point of fans.  Fans, although they do help in hindering opponents, are primarily there to cheer there team to victory and give them as many moral boosters as they can.  We know EC prides themself on seeing who can come up with the foulest comment during a game towards the other team, I guess GC fans are just a little more old fashioned and refined.

Sixthly, I don't think anyone on this entire board, past or present, would ever discount the past successes of either team, or the phenomenal players that have come through their programs.  We all know GC struggles in the playoffs.  But do we stop cheering for the Red Sox after 86 years, even when the Yankees are hanging their 27th banner, absolutely not.  Instead they take those years of defeat and they let that be their fuel to finally achieve greatness.  And I think it is very evident that they are doing just that this year.

[dwebbs]

same.

[AJ]

First of all, its good to see an Endicott fan back on this board....for a while there I just figured Endicotts fans hadn't learned how to read yet (dsd bag must be a senior, I know Endicott doesn't start teaching how to read and write till at least your junior year).  Yes there are no banners in the Bennet Center, but thats because Gordon doesn't put banners up.  I'm sure you noticed the 10+ trophy cases filled on your way in though.

As for the EC fans being better then the GC fans, I really don't see how that can be true.  Gordon fans almost outnumbered the EC fans at the Post Center and Endicott could barely get a handful of students to drive 5 minutes to the Bennet Center.  EC fans have been desperately lacking since the cowboys left 2 years ago.

[Maq Diesel]

WOW that is some smack where was that when before or directly after your the EC v GC game.  I wanted to adress one point you made and that was EC dominated after it was 20-3 and you are wrong or you watched and entirely different game than the rest of us.  If my memory serves me correctly and I think it does, Ellis hit two shots in the last 45 seconds to cut a 20 point lead to a 14 point lead at the half.  So if they dominated why then were they only able to cut the lead by 6 over a 12 minuet streach.  The second half I agree GC didn't play as well but down the stretch GC was up by 11 and they missed more than a few free throws which would have put the game out of reach.  In reality the game was a not as close as the final score may have indicated.  For all your other comments see 24/7/365 post, I think he summed it up quite nicely.

Also one last thing, you mentioned the banners in the gyms at CSC and EC, while it is true that those schools may have achieved more success recently, especially basketball, GC has done very well in many sports over the years and simply chooses not to hang hundreds of banners in out gym.  Personally I ran intramurals and I agree the REC-IM banners are stupid, but I also think it is retarted and redundant  for lack of a better word to hang banners for reaching the NCAA's, you won the conference, so we know you went but I know EC has never won a NCAA tourney game so you have nothing to brag about.  This is a new year and GC, EC and CSC are all differnt teams than the ones that played in the past, so lets not dwell there.

Also the fact of the matter is the tie breaker (if it gets there, GC has Curry left and EC has both CSC and Curry) is non-conference winning record versus teams with .500 winning percentages, so yes these teams are not the elite but its not like they are push overs.

[dwebbs]

same.