MBB: Conference of New England

[CCC Talk]

No disrespect to the CCC but its not exactly a power conference in d3.  Why is is that a school in this conference can be the worst year to year.

This is a great question everyone else seems to get better over time NEC seems stuck.

Look at the following trajectories of NEC compared the other 2004-2005 bottom feeders:

NEC
04-05 12-14 (4-12)
05-06 10-15 (5-11)
06-07 10-15 (5-11)
07-08 7-18 (2-11)
08-09 5-20 (2-11)
Currently (1-11)

University Of New England
04-05 8-17 (4-12)
05-06 9-16 (5-11)
06-07 5-20 (5-11)
07-08 17-12 (9-4)
08-09 23-4 (12-1) League Champs
Currently (7-5)

Wentworth
04-05 6-18 (4-12)
05-06 10-16 (5-11)
06-07 17-12 (9-7) League Champs
07-08 14-11 (8-5)
08-09 10-15 (7-6)
Currently (9-3)

These teams were all in the same boat- UNE got a new coach and an influx of talent and won the league last year. Wentworth also built quickly and won a title and is still a tough out. NEC went the other way- not sure why but it's an interesting question.

[Pat Coleman]

Welcome to the board. Not that I have an answer to your question, but welcome.

[backboard]

No disrespect to the CCC but its not exactly a power conference in d3.  Why is is that a school in this conference can be the worst year to year.

This is a great question everyone else seems to get better over time NEC seems stuck.

Look at the following trajectories of NEC compared the other 2004-2005 bottom feeders:

NEC
04-05 12-14 (4-12)
05-06 10-15 (5-11)
06-07 10-15 (5-11)
07-08 7-18 (2-11)
08-09 5-20 (2-11)
Currently (1-11)

University Of New England
04-05 8-17 (4-12)
05-06 9-16 (5-11)
06-07 5-20 (5-11)
07-08 17-12 (9-4)
08-09 23-4 (12-1) League Champs
Currently (7-5)

Wentworth
04-05 6-18 (4-12)
05-06 10-16 (5-11)
06-07 17-12 (9-7) League Champs
07-08 14-11 (8-5)
08-09 10-15 (7-6)
Currently (9-3)

These teams were all in the same boat- UNE got a new coach and an influx of talent and won the league last year. Wentworth also built quickly and won a title and is still a tough out. NEC went the other way- not sure why but it's an interesting question.

The problem seems pretty simple to me.  As with every college team, it starts with the coach.  I'm not up on my NEC history, but how long have they had the same coach?  If it's been more than 5 years, well it's certainly time for a change.  I understand that it's probably tough recruiting to a school in the middle of a small town along with less than average facilities, but that can't be the only thing holding them back.  I have to put some blame on the coaching staff as well as the AD.

[backboard]

Just to correct myself here . . .

They have recruited some decent talent in the past (Ryan Jaziri, Pat Quinn) and other times they weren't able to hold on it (Tyler Evans, Kingsley Onyechi)

[whiteplainshoops]

Hey guys --

Thanks for some of the feedback.  In looking back I played for the current coach in his 1st season and kind of chalked up his weaknesses (we lost like 8 guys between 1st and 2nd semester...) to it being his first year and trying to install his program.  I guess its more of the same up there.

Despite it being a small school/small town the place had some unique advantages that I cant believe dont help this coach in recruiting......at what point will an AD says enough is enough and look to make a change.  Its embarrasing that my frosh year (00-01, 10-16 record, 6 seed in conference playoffs) was one of the schools best in recent memory.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

You're the former student, you might be able to shed some light on some things.  My perception of NEC has been a school that put academics first, perhaps to the extent of looking down on athletics.  Obviously, if true, that could be a difficult scenario for keeping kids there or playing once they hit campus.

Again, maybe my perception is wrong, but it seems like NEC has done at least moderately well in other sports over the years.  Perhaps basketball is just something they haven't figured out.

I went to ENC, which has had a pretty rough 5-8 years of its own across the athletic department.  Things show signs of stabilizing, but it can take a very long time to recover from a down period.  If you throw in things like coaching turnover and less than competitive salaries - location or institutional issues - it can get even tougher.

In some places athletics is a prominent feature of institutional advancement and in others it can be an afterthought or a casualty.  Of course at the bottom of d3, making the assumption that a school is even worried about institutional advancement (as opposed to institutional survival) is not something one can take for granted.

This is also one of the big reasons we had all the talk about the CCC splitting up last year.  Clearly there is a disparity between the member schools in a number of the these areas.  Right now it seems like there is some level of commitment to each other, but it may not last forever.

[GC Oldtimer]

I think Hopps fan has hit on it.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but my perception of NEC, athletically, is strong in Ice Hockey and Field Hockey so it can't all be the school and location.  It seems like a basketball/coach issue.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

CSC over WNEC 95-86

WIT over NEC 79-61

CC over EC  86-77

GC over SRU 89-62

Nichols is up 25 on UNE with one minute to go - that's a Nichols win.

No score from ENC-RWU, but it doesn't affect the standings.

Last check from Regis-AMC is a three point AMC lead with 90 seconds remaining.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

So we've got: #1-GC, #2-WIT, #3-CC, - five teams, possibly six tied for fourth.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Right now:

#1-GC
#2-WIT
#3-CC
#4-CSC
#5-NC
#6-UNE
#7-EC

If AMC wins, they get #8, if AMC loses, WNEC gets #8.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Tournament is:

#8 AMC/WNEC @ #1 GC

#5 NC @ #4 CSC

#6 UNE @ #3 CC

#7 EC @ #2 WIT


*Disclaimer:  I believe I have all the tiebreakers correct, but the official CCC announcement will, of course, be the official schedule for the tournament.*

[Bill Gorman]

Regis outlasted Anna Maria in double OT, 101-96.  Official pairings will be released later tonight, after the conference office breaks all of the ties.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Regis pulls out the win in OT, saving WNEC and knocking AMC out of the playoffs.

I think we have:

#8 WNEC @ #1 GC

#5 NC @ #4 CSC

#6 UNE @ #3 CC

#7 EC @ #2 WIT

I can go through the tiebreaker process to see how you guys feel about my interpretation.

The first one is head to head among the group - CSC is the only team at 3-1, so they get the 4th seed.  That's easy.  Then we go back and do another head to head among the group without CSC involved.  Nichols and UNE are 2-1, EC is 1-2, WNEC is 0-3.

The official rules state, "In the event that three or more teams are tied, when one team wins a specific tiebreaker, the remaining tied teams will be treated as a "new" tie and the procedure will start over from step one."  I think this could mean, 1)if no team clearly wins a tiebreaker, move to the next one or 2)use the tiebreakers in order to determine a winner.

In our case, option one would have us move to the second tiebreaker with all four teams, option two would have us move to the second tiebreaker with just NC and UNE, since they both had the clear advantage in the first tiebreaker.

I chose option 2 for my matchups above - to me it seems the most fair and logical.  Neither team beat Gordon (#1), but Nichols did beat Wentworth (#2) while UNE did not.  I gave NC the #5 slot.

Then moving back to the head to heads without NC, we get UNE at 2-0, giving them the #6 spot.

Endicott beat WNEC, giving them #7 and #8 respectively.

I think this is how it will go, my only concern was the interpretation of that clause in the tiebreaker explanation.

[Bill Gorman]

Official seedings:

1.) Gordon
2.) Wentworth
3.) Curry
4.) Colby-Sawyer
5.) Nichols
6.) UNE
7.) WNEC
8.) Endicott

EC @ GC
WNEC @ WIT
UNE @ CC
NC @ CSC

Release to come out later this evening with the explanation on how the five-way tie was broken.  I'll post the link when I get it.

All games are at 7:00.

I believe Gordon will have video and I know Wentworth will have live stats (shameless plug) as well as Curry and CSC.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

That's right.  I did my numbers incorrectly.