MBB: Conference of New England

[high flyer 21]

The Miersma kid is big and pretty decent, however he is remarkably soft and comes from a HS program that has produced a long line of remarkably soft players.

Is Alex Vander Baan, Holy Cross' former power forward, listed among those in Whitinsville's "long line of remarkably soft players".  I don't think so.  Quite an incentive-driven statement to make that is stupidly wrong.  I know a handful from the Wentworth crowd likes to try and act like Wentworth is perennially superior to a school in the conference like Gordon (who, mind you, still boasts the conference's ONLY at-large bid to the NCAA tournament ever, not to mention winning the CCC two years ago), but history has proved that Wentworth is not, and never will be, "better" than Gordon, institutionally or athletically.

[backboard]

The Miersma kid is big and pretty decent, however he is remarkably soft and comes from a HS program that has produced a long line of remarkably soft players.

Is Alex Vander Baan, Holy Cross' former power forward, listed among those in Whitinsville's "long line of remarkably soft players".  I don't think so.  Quite an incentive-driven statement to make that is stupidly wrong.  I know a handful from the Wentworth crowd likes to try and act like Wentworth is perennially superior to a school in the conference like Gordon (who, mind you, still boasts the conference's ONLY at-large bid to the NCAA tournament ever, not to mention winning the CCC two years ago), but history has proved that Wentworth is not, and never will be, "better" than Gordon, institutionally or athletically.

I'm not even sure if you know the definition of history with that garbage you just rambled off.  Wentworth has never been better than Gordon athletically?  You honestly should never be allowed to post again with that ridiculous comment. 

Outside of a couple quality seasons and SEVERAL disappointing ends to their basketball season, Gordon doesn't hold a candle to Wentworth's success.  Gordon has NEVER had a player as good as Prezzie-Blue or been able to recruit All-American talent that Wentworth has brought in during earlier seasons.  How many championships have Gordon won?  A resounding ONE!!!  I'll let you know fill me in on how many Wentworth has.  (I'll give you a hint, it's more than one.)

Please refrain from making a complete and utter fool of yourself.  I'm not interested to dragging more sports into this dispute because frankly, neither school is really elite.

[GnacAlum55]

Want to go back even further.....how about Wentworth alums Ludger Bain, Sterling Marshall, Kenny Bascom, and Steve Matthews (I'll even throw in Brandon Boone).  Athletic and dominant.  Better than any Gordon team EVER.  Don't start with history if you don't know it....

[high flyer 21]

Actually, I do know history. Wentworth has won three (unless they won another before 1994-1995 season of which no records are available).  They have also been in the league for a longer time than Gordon has.  For the record, I wasn't mocking Wentworth, I was acknowledging the fact several former Leopards attempt to flaunt a type of superiority over Gordon, which was certainly underlined by the offended response right after mine.

If I'm a fool and ignorant of history, that makes CCC Talk an even bigger one for that idiotic statement he made.   

[CCC Talk]

highflyer,

congrats you found 1 example of a non soft player in your research of Whitinsville basketball. I grew up about 45 minutes from there and other than Vander Baan just about everyone of their alleged great players ended up having disappointing collegiate careers or playing on the JV teams out in Michigan because they couldn't make the travel squads. Even the middle Bajema brother who played and now coaches I believe at Gordon and put up big numbers- disappeared in big games and missed an open 10 footer at the buzzer to lose to Wentworth in the CCC semis the year Wentworth went to the tournament.

Gordon had a nice little 5 year run due to Mike Scahuer plain and simple. He got good enough players that even though there was a lot of softness they were still competitive even if he somehow never managed to win the league. Those days are over. They are not bringing in top talent- even by CCC standards anymore. Look at their stats. Just look at them. Maybe this would be rectified by a little diversity on your team...of course we all know that won't happen.

Use whatever sample size you want to use, decade, 5 years, 3 years whatever. Gordon's basketball history is not nearly as storied as they will have you believe. Having a bunch of kids come to the game in tee shirts is cute, but 1 title in your history (in a remarkably weak year for the league) is not impressive.

[WITball]

Shaking my head at high flyers comments...not even sure how to respond...i remember watching herr trying to to dunk on WITs unathletic weonard bynes and bynes sending it to the bleachers...hes (Herr) the most athletic guy ive seen for gordon in watching them in the past 7 years...they have been a methodical/hardworking/smart basketball team....but never athletic...as far as gordon being better institutionally than WIT thats kind of a brash statement as well....you are aware that WIT is an engineering school right? The only majors close to something as confusing/difficult as some of the engineering majors WIT offers is maybe gordon's physics and chemistry majors....which engineering students at WIT have to take anyway.  I get it, we are all loyal to our schools to the bone but it would be like me saying Wentworth has much a higher/stonger christian commitments than Gordon does....

[high flyer 21]

Let's see.  Whitinsville has had players thrive in Division I, Division II and Division III basketball in college, win conference championships at all three levels, and make NCAA tournament appearances at all three levels.  "Soft" is hardly the word that comes to mind for that.  A few of the players were on the skinnier side (Bajemas), but even them I would hardly describe their play as "soft", rather skillful (Brady was #1 in the country his senior year in 3 point shooting).  Maybe if winning counts as softness then Whitinsville is struck with it, since they have won two state titles in the past half decade.

I am quite aware of Wentworth's academics, as I am with Gordon's.  What I am mocking is the tendency of former Wentworth players to act like Wentworth is socially superior to Gordon, to the point they try to disassociate with them as a conference member and take pride in Gordon's past shortcomings.  Wentworth's record is a combined 5-12 against Gordon in the past nine years.  The fact is is that in the 21st century, starting the first full era that both schools have been members of the conference, both institutions have a CCC title, both have an NCAA tournament appearace (Gordon has two) and both have two All Americans.  When looking realistically at the facts, there is absolutely no reason why former Leopards should act superior, or maybe I should say, "hard".     

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Endicott beat Emmanuel tonight. Magee had 34 and 12 to seal the deal.

[WITball]

Oh im sorry i forgot we were talking about Whitinsville high school and not gordon, your right on that point. and im not saying that WIT players are "hard" by any means, Harder than Gordons yes (does this mean they have had better basketball players? Not always but sometimes)...are wits players this year harder? im not sure and most likely we will find out when they match up. I think that both teams have great pasts and its the TCCC best rivalries.

Your mocking Wits tendencys of being socially superior? As a basketball player should you not feel superior to your opponent? Should you not feel like you are better than them? because if you dont then I would say you are soft. In a rivalry should you not take pride in your rivals shortcomings? And be upset when they do well because it wasnt you?

I was livid two years ago when gordon made it to the NCAA's. should I have been happy for them because they are in the same conference as WIT? Thats like saying the red sox are happy when the Yanks make it to the world series instead of them....Its like your talking about grade school where every team should be nice to each other or like in recent days where HS teams get in trouble for running up the score...that is soft. This is college ball, you play to win simple, you dont try to make the other teams feel good about themselves...that would be...well...soft

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Oh im sorry i forgot we were talking about Whitinsville high school and not gordon, your right on that point. and im not saying that WIT players are "hard" by any means, Harder than Gordons yes (does this mean they have had better basketball players? Not always but sometimes)...are wits players this year harder? im not sure and most likely we will find out when they match up. I think that both teams have great pasts and its the TCCC best rivalries.

Your mocking Wits tendencys of being socially superior? As a basketball player should you not feel superior to your opponent? Should you not feel like you are better than them? because if you dont then I would say you are soft. In a rivalry should you not take pride in your rivals shortcomings? And be upset when they do well because it wasnt you?

I was livid two years ago when gordon made it to the NCAA's. should I have been happy for them because they are in the same conference as WIT? Thats like saying the red sox are happy when the Yanks make it to the world series instead of them....Its like your talking about grade school where every team should be nice to each other or like in recent days where HS teams get in trouble for running up the score...that is soft. This is college ball, you play to win simple, you dont try to make the other teams feel good about themselves...that would be...well...soft

Yeah, this is really immature.  It's basketball.  It's amateur, division three basketball.  These guys are playing because they love basketball.  Rivalries are fun and it's great to pick on the other team and yell and stuff - it's even fine to root for them to lose.  If you extend it to the entire conference, though, you're just being self-defeating.

Of course we want our conference representatives to do well in the tournament; it's better for all our teams.  But what's more, we should want all the players on all the team to perform their best in every game.  Now fans cheering, distracting, and creating havoc is part of it; a good player should be able to overcome to atmosphere at a game to perform.  I'm not saying we should all sit silently, but that also doesn't mean we can't appreciate good play when it comes from opposing players.

I don't think you should stop trash talking here.  That's part of what makes these boards great.  We've got energetic fans representing their teams.  Of course we all laugh a bit when someone makes outrageous claims about their players.  Some choose to come back with taunts and pile on the abuse.

Personally, I think it's laughable that anyone would argue over how "hard" or "soft" a player is or which high school produced better players.  But, please have at it.  Just know that no one is winning any of those arguments, because they don't actually matter - there's no way to win them.   You're arguing for argument sake.

I relish in the struggles of Gordon as much, if not more, than anyone.  I was legitimately giddy when they opened with two 38 point games.  At the same time, I want to see the league do well, I want to see competitive games and I want these kids to reach their highest level of play.  I want everyone on the court to strive for wins, but at the d3 level, winning is not even close to everything.

[scout]

Calm down.

This is a forum to discuss basketball. Let's try to keep it as such.

WIT is an engineering school with a decent pedigree for the sciences.. Gordon is a liberal arts school with a fantastic education program (though the new science center seems absolutely legit). It's comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they're both fruit in that they're both colleges. But that's about it regarding similarities.

Gordon has certain standards that hinder it in recruiting. This is well known. WIT does too, but they are not as much of a hindrance, I believe.

Regardless, both schools have performed well over the past decade in the CCC. Winning programs are fun to watch. Both of them fit that description.

Sherrad Prezzie-Blue is the best guard I've ever seen in the conference. Period. Gordon has had some great players, of which I would mention Aaron Trigg and Ryan Smith. SPB is better than both.

I would say that Schauer was the better coach. He did more with a lot less than perhaps any other coach in the conference during that time. But he's gone now... Gordon has to prove it can reach that level again with a new-ish coach.

Just stop it. At least keep the conversation to hoops.

[uconn05]

Here is my attempt at an All-First Semester First and Second Team. This list does not take positions into account and is in no particular order.

First Team:
Lance Greene
David Dempsey
Chima Ezeigbo
Sedale Jones
Pat Flanagan

Second Team:
Andre Shaw
Lachlan Magee
Ryan Birrell
Lambros Papalambros
Corey Therriault

I wanted to include Sheehan but he isn't shooting well, isn't rebounding, and isn't getting assists. There were too many guys that would have been in consideration for a third team so I decided not to do one. I'm sure this list isn't perfect but it isn't a bad jumping off point.

[Chantastic]

Now that the first semester is all but over, I'd like to hear how everyone thinks the conference will shape up.

I actually haven't seen enough to make a definitive statement although I think Endicott, GC, WIT, and RWU will be the top 4 in some sort of order. 

[uconn05]

Now that Callo is back, I think Endicott is the clear favorite.

I think the next tier is WIT, Curry, Salve, and RWU.

Naz, Gordon, and Nichols are all about the same.

WNEC and UNE are brining up the rear.

If Curry adds a big during the break, and doesn't lose Lambros or Sedale, they could take out Endicott. Overall, if I have to make the prediction now, I'm going with a Endicott v. Salve in the final - EC winning. Salve has the odd combinatin of being young and having championship experience. That works as the tie-breaker for me (over Curry, WIT, and RWU).

[Gordonhoops123]

Now that Callo is back, I think Endicott is the clear favorite.

I think the next tier is WIT, Curry, Salve, and RWU.

Naz, Gordon, and Nichols are all about the same.

WNEC and UNE are brining up the rear.

If Curry adds a big during the break, and doesn't lose Lambros or Sedale, they could take out Endicott. Overall, if I have to make the prediction now, I'm going with a Endicott v. Salve in the final - EC winning. Salve has the odd combinatin of being young and having championship experience. That works as the tie-breaker for me (over Curry, WIT, and RWU).

I disagree, for some reason Phil Rowe has tons of talent each year and can't get it done. They were very athletic and got smoked by Gordon two years ago on the way to GC winning it all. Rowe can't get them to play together. And yes Schauer was the best all time coaches that Gordon has had, he was up there with Bill Fotti and Fotti can recruit whoever he wants with no limitations.