MBB: Conference of New England

[threeball23]

The home teams in the CCC should handle their business this weekend.  The only team I could see losing at home is ENC, but they do get some great crowds down there and could pull off the win.  RWU should take care of AMC at home even without Gumb.  CSC should not have a problem with Nichols unless they go turnover crazy again.  Gordon and Salve may be the most competitve game, but I say GC by 8...UNE over WIT by 10.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

With all due respect Hayes, all you ever saw was the crowds for the Gordon game, which were generally the only good ones they've managed recently at ENC.  From what I hear on campus and the pathetic offensive display from the team, I doubt there will be too many people showing up to witness the carnage.  I'm not sure they can even beat NEC this year.

[24/7/365]

 Until next Tuesday, SRU at GC is the biggest game of the year so far.  Not only for both teams, but for the CCC also.  SRU has been a thorn in GC's side for the last couple of seasons.  Especially last year when they routed GC when GC traveled to SRU for the first conference game of the year, and again when they emerged victorious during the Quarter Finals in the playoffs last year.  Just like MIT, GC needs to beat SRU in order to shake the proverbial "demons" and focus on teams like EC, CSC and CC.

SRU needs their double-double man Grendal to come through and then some.  Walsh and Coute are going to need to raise their season averages, and their bench play is going to have to be superb in addition.  If SRU can hammer GC on the boards, and get hot from beyond the arc, they have as good a shot as any of giving GC their first loss of the season.

To win this game, GC is going to need to have all their usual suspects show up for this one.  Marstaller will need to post his regular double-double, Logan and Kauffman are going to need to be the leaders they are expected to be and Herr will have to be an assassin from the arc.  The GC bench needs to continue to stay hot as well.  With players like the Beebe brothers, Vogelzang and Hassler performing to the best of their ability, GC should feel confident, but not cocky going into this game.  And add in the X-factor of GC's crowd, affectionately known as the "PIT" and GC has the makings for a big conference win.  GC by 13.

[the_cru]

Hey everyone.  I'll be back again this year to give the fun reports from ENC.  As as student I get all the inside info so any questions can be sent my way.  Don't rely too much on Chewning.  The kid lives in North Carolina and is still too caught up in his playing days to realize he doesn't go to school anymore.  But I got nothing but love for ya Chewns. 

As for last nights game, no comments are needed.  They lack a person on the floor that wants to shoot.  Ruiru(freshmen) and DaSilva seemed to be the leaders out there... but thats sad coming from freshmen.  But it does look good for the future. 

I do want to comment on all the talk about restructuring the conference.  I dont understand why all these schools seem to think they deserve to play in a more competitive league.  Through the early 90's ENC was a powerhouse in pretty much every sport... so they have had a bad run for the past few years.  If the CCC teams were blowing out other conference teams that would make more sense, but from looking at all the scores, they arent..  Maybe the CCC teams arent as good as a lot of you guys think they are.  Just a thought.   

[akirk]

Hoops Fan,

I don't know if you realized it or not, but last year was a huge improvement for NEC.  Not so much for the conference record (4-12) but 12-14 overall is much better than a 2-21 (2004) and 2-22 (2003).  I also remember them splitting the season series with GC.  I remember watching them at GC and playing tough for a little while during the first half but ultimately being exposed with a strong zone defense.

[AJ]

the_cru,

The restructuring of the league comes down to more then just basketball.  I know as a soccer player at Gordon that we waste 3 to 4 games a year playing the lower half teams in the CCC.  These are games that could be scheduled against tougher opponents (We have to turn down games from teams in the NEWMAC and NESCAC every year because our schedule is already filled), not only improving the strength of our schedule but also giving us a chance to improve as a team overall. 

The top 8 teams already listed have shown to be academically or athletically consistent over the past 10 years.  While ENC had a good run back in the 1990's, the likelyhood of them or some of the other lower CCC teams actually becoming contenders in the future in more then one sport is unlikely.  While the top 8 teams may not be dominating against teams outside the CCC right now, they still compete with most teams in New England and with a smaller league there will be opportunities for the CCC to become one of the stronger New England Conferences. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

No, I was on the NEC bandwagon to make the #4 slot last year the whole time.  They had a great line-up of young players.  I'm not sure how many of them return as they are notoriously the worst at keeping up the website (an amazing feat in the technologically sedated CCC).

THeir overall record was inflated by about the weakest schedule this side of Potsdam, but even with that it was a marked improvement.  I'm not sure I can automatically elevate them to a playoff position, especially with the potential improvements of both WIT and UNE.  The games will definately have to decide things.  All that to say, while NEC is improving they are still near enough the bottom for me to feel justified in using them in the manner I did.  Still, look out for Onyechi.  He could dominate in the paint tomorrow.


Cru, the last I checked, Ruiru was a transfer Soph, so easy on dissing Chewns... cast the first stone and all.  Glad to see you back this year.

No one has picked up on Curry beating Trinity last night?  This is a huge victory.  Granted Trinity played like crap, but Curry is missing their TWO best players here.  We all knew the rest of the guys were capable of putting a night like that together, but can any of us say we thought it would happen?  Trinity is arguably the second best team in the region's best conference.  Rhoten got his points and CC limited the supporting cast.  Maybe we don't have any Curry supporters on here, but something had to be said about it.  Big win for the conference as a whole.


Finally, the restructuring.  As far as the early-mid 90's ENC teams, they were very good, but I'm not sure there even was a CCC then.  If so, it was certainly not anything like the present configuration.  The bottom line is that many of the schools have made concerted efforts of late to make their academics more rigorous and improve the overall condition of the athletic programs.  It's not meant to be derogatory for the other schools, but just a fact.  CSC, NEC, RWU, SRU, WIT and GC certainly have solid academic reputations.  NEC is one of the more prestigious small privates in New England.  EC pretends to be smart, and maybe they are getting there, but they certainly put an emphasis on athletic superiority and they have lots of money.  WNEC is a good fit for the group as well.

I'm not exactly certain who will be in the "new" conference or even when it will happen, but it's about time for a split.

The GNAC has some good schools and there will probably be a lot of shifting around in the near future.  It happens, especially in d3... I wouldn't worry about it.

I know the ENC folks are worried about losing the old rivalry with Gordon, but the two schools were rivals long before they were in the same division, let alone the same conference.  And even though GC has been pretty dominant lately, their rich alumni sat at the Garden in the 70's to watch the two teams play just like ENC's did.  That rivalry won't die.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Well said AJ.  It's really not a shot at the lower tier schools, but its a fact of different futures and mission.  ENC, AMC, UNE, etc, while fine academic institutions are designed to be more open and available to students of all backgrounds and abilities.  This is a great mission and sometimes a better atmosphere for their target group.  Other schools focus on an elite academic level.  While few in the CCC qualify as "elite" at this point, many are working towards that aim.  Different philosophies (and budgets) really do make it tough for these schools to be so linked.  I still think ENC is a great place to send your kid to college; it just doesn't have the same mission or vision as, say an NEC.

Sports is a big factor too and money is an issue here as well.  Some of the smaller schools have smaller budgets and sink less money into their athletics.  I hope you would agree that while varsity sports are an important part of the college experience, they shouldn't not dominate the academics.  If a school can't afford to compete in a bunch of sports, then they shouldn't try.  A twelve school conference does hold back some of the growing programs.  There is a reason the NESCAC is an 8 team league.

It's not a bad move for the smaller schools either.  I'm sure in the midst of the program (re)building Coach Zink would be glad to not be locked into games with both EC and CSC in the same year.

[broke_ya_ankles]

as far as the restructuring goes, another thing to consider is current independent schools in new england Newbury and St. Joseph's (Maine) will likely be looking to join a conference in the next 2 or 3 years or so.  I know St. Joeseph's currently has their baseball team in the NAC but to what I understand they want something better and I had heard awhile back that the CCC was a real good possibility.... something to think about for around 2008

[24/7/365]

I think that everyone in this site is only speculating and no one has any factual basis to make claims about what teams are leaving, why they are leaving or if they are leaving.  How about we all stick to the things we know?  And those things we know are CCC basketball teams, and the players on them.

[roy_williams]

it would be great if the CCC was realigned. it seems the top schools are really starting to distance themselves not only in athletic talent, but academically as institutions and overall in quality of athletic facilities. if these top schools could branch off and form a new conference, a "poor man's" NESCAC if you will, i think it would help elevate all their programs for competition around New England, and eventually nationally.

The tough part would be what to do with an Endicott or a UNE? Endicott certainly has the athletics of a superior institution as well as endowment and stadiums, but academically they struggle. This would hurt any new conference from becoming a NESCAC. The NESCAC school's pride themselves in getting kids who can't/don't want to go to IVY league to play sports, but maybe could get in academically. UNE has a good rep as far as academics and is solid in sports, so i don't think they should necessarily be grouped with an AMC of the world.

does anyone know how feasible conference change really is and what say the NCAA has on it? And how long does it take a new conference to gain postseason eligibility? How many teams do you need?

st joes would be interesting on the basketball side as for the past 10 years or so they had one of the strongest programs in New England. they have fallen back this last year and current year because of a coaching mishap by the AD's office, but before were one of the best.

I agree with Hoops, it's nice to see two CCC teams beat the perennial top of the NESCAC, and none of their names are Colby Sawyer.  And while Bates is down, and Trinity probably isn't as strong as ever, they are both solid regional teams. The fact Curry won, on the road, without Lamb is frankly scary. I'm interested to see how EC does tonight against Hamilton.

Decemeber 6th is coming.

[roy_williams]

also i want to applaud hoops for bringing up something that seems rather taboo on this board; CSC, for the past 2 seasons, is underachieving at best. Every year, everyone writes how CSC is head and shoulders above the rest of the conference or how Tyler Putnam is the greatest D3 player in the country (never to suit up).

sure they put up the gaudy conference records, upset some keene states or bates of the world, battle a Williams or Amherst,  but for the past two seasons fall short of the NCAA, let alone the conference championship.

now im not saying they don't deserve all their credit, or that they are paper champions.  heck the buffalo bills and atlanta braves have been great teams. but what i am saying is bray is a suspect guard at best, kenny is a dime a dozen guard on most teams, and st clair can't do it all himself. in fact some might float the pat ewing/joe thorton theory this way.

look, foti is a great coach, CSC is a storied program and they deserve to get attention as one of the solid teams in New England. But Ronald Regan ain't walking through that door. They can be beat at home. Endicott's, Curry's, maybe even Gordon's and Rogers/Salves have narrowed the gap considerably. Posters shouldn't be ramroded for saying they dont think CSC will win it this year. Sure, they go will 13-3, maybe 14-2. But, for the past two seasons they have fallen short of their goal. And frankly if they don't get it done this year, I would consider their senior class a disappointment. The times are a changing my friend, and CSC is still a good team, but certainly not a lock for the title.     

[broke_ya_ankles]

i got a chance to see colby-sawyer play last night for the first time in over a year, i was expecting another year of seasoned players gelling together...but i saw just the opposite...
heres what i saw...
st clair finished the game with 13 and 11...not to mention a Technical foul which doesnt suit him as a player, but anyways.... it seemed like he played his game but his teammates failed to utilize him as they have in their past and allow him to lead them to wins, he was fighting and getting great position but not getting the ball, or when they do look for him its the wrong time, but in all when he got it something effective happened, hes a solid passer and can find people, and isnt a selfish player, so if this team wants to return to previous years form they NEED to get him many many more touches than he got last night anyways...

Pat Kenny- first time i had gotten to see him since his freshmen year, um wow looked like a tottally different player, extrememly unorthodox and i still struggle in my mind to figure out how hes effective with his form, and overall style of play, but the point is he is and thats all that matters, but the biggest thing i noticed was teams obviously have his scouting report and are beginning to neutralize him which doesnt make him the player he was his freshmen year when he was kinda an unknown and people had no idea what to expect, i dont see Kenny as becoming the player he showed he could become during his fantastic freshmen year.

Butterworth- this kid plays hard, he seems like the heart to the team a defensive specialist, took 3 charges in 4 mintues that were VERY crucial in CSC comback attempt last night, he can stick the open shot as well...really an underrated player but nothing a solid defensive team couldnt shut down, but his defensive value is very obvious for foti's team.

Matt Spanos- kid seemed like a real solid player, def a plus to have a big body like his around and fundamentally seemed sound, a good compliment to st clairs style of play

Josh Carter- very solid guard off the bench, good handle, smart player, gets to the hole well with good vision/passing ability, shooting might be suspect as i didnt see a whole lot, but what i did see was iffy at best (probably is a solid shooter though)

Tyler Fournier-  solid combo guard, nothing too special, not a real big threat to score but can stick if u let him, good defender, probably his biggest asset

colin bray- this kid has to be the most overrated player in the ccc, he seems to have gotten worse from his freshmen year on, just an erratic guard who i would never want running my team, makes mental errors that sr points shouldnt ever be making, very undersized and doesnt make up for it in anyway whatsoever, most real solid d3 teams in new england would have him as a 3rd string pg at best, maybe backup for some mid-good d3 NE teams, and im not basing this on one game, im basing it on many multiple games

where is Thorpe??  CSC needs him like now! and where is the patented Colby-Sawyer in your face helpside defense??

this team is in desperate trouble after st clair needs, so they better make what they can of this season cause from next year on they will drop off immensely

[met_fan]

Endicott loses to Hamilton 75-60.  Don't know any details.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

As much as it is out of character for him, St Clair needs to get vocal and let his team know they have to get things together.  He's such a good player, but its time he gets vocal.  Broke Ya Ankles confirmed it for me, Foti has done as much as he can do, its time for the seniors to step up and lead that team.

For EC Nemanja had 14 and George 13.  The defense let them down, allowing 40% for Hamilton.  I think the key to that EC success is the FG% defense.  It certainly keeps them in games, even when they don't play well.