WBB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[TroyP]

So does the SCAC ever receive any at large bids into the tourney or is it one of the conferences that you better win the conference tourney to get in?

[jekelish]

So does the SCAC ever receive any at large bids into the tourney or is it one of the conferences that you better win the conference tourney to get in?

Recent history is "win to get in" but this year could potentially test that with Trinity and AC both off to their strong starts (IF they both reach the conference final; if either loses in the semis there's probably no shot).

[gordonmann]

The SCAC has not had an at-large bid in the last decade but this is a good chance to get one.

https://www.d3hoops.com/guidebook/2019/women/2010-19_WBB_NCAA_Bids.pdf

[TroyP]

So what is it that keeps the SCAC from getting an at large bid? Is it just history of conference not playing well in the tournament?

[ronk]

So what is it that keeps the SCAC from getting an at large bid? Is it just history of conference not playing well in the tournament?

That's not 1 of the criteria that is used for getting an at-large bid; rather, won-loss %, strength of schedule(SOS), and games versus regionally ranked opponents(vrro) are among the primary criteria considered for a team to be included/excluded from a bid; nothing about a conference(history, #of bids, etc) is considered.

[Ron Boerger]

One problem is that the conference is bottom-heavy.   Outside of AC, TU, (usually) TLU, most if not all teams usually have sub-.500 records overall, so the SOS for teams at the top of the conference is substantially impacted.  The number of weak teams also means you don't get many results against RROs unless you schedule them in non-conference play.  There really aren't that many at-large bids when you look at the number of teams playing - competition is fierce. 

This year we have St. Thomas in the mix who are playing quite well, but since they are in the second year of their transition from NAIA to D3, results against them don't count in the primary criteria (NCAA policy; four of the women on this year's roster, including their two leading scorers, remain from their last NAIA team, a fifth left in mid-season).   It will be interesting to see how the Celts fare after their holdovers graduate. 

[Ron Boerger]

Speaking of St. Thomas, they may benefit from Proposal 2020-2, adopted at this week's NCAA convention, which for non-NCAA members reclassifying to D3 reduces the waiting period from four years to three (among other things).   Proposal 2020-3, which does the same for NCAA members, was also adopted.

EDIT:  Most importantly, adopted Proposal 2020-4 allows schools to provide snacks and "permissible nutritional supplements" to student-athletes as a benefit of participating in intercollegiate athletics. #nomnom

[Ron Boerger]

Will be interesting to see if Trinity gets back in the top ten as I think 5 of the teams ranked above them have lost this weekend.  The next game at St. Thomas, who play much better at home than on the road, could be a test.

Attended the Friday game against TLU ... not their best effort early on but wrapped it up early enough to get some playing time for the deep bench and still won by 25.  Against SW last night they struggled to put points on the board early (27 in the first half thanks in no small part to 1-12 from deep) but a 23-4 third quarter resulted in a easy win and more PT for the bench.   Abby Holland had 20 and 27 in the two games.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

When it comes to the game of basketball, we love celebrating not only the student-athletes in Division III, but also those who help carry the game forward sometimes outside of the spotlight.

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[Ron Boerger]

Nice job with Coach Hill, Dave.   Happy to see Coach give props to both the coaches at AC and St. Thomas (wouldn't expect anything less, that's the kind of guy he is).   Trinity is very fortunate to have him guide the program back after it went into the weeds under his predecessor.

[Ron Boerger]

Going back to my SOS comments - Dave was good enough to post this link to current women's SOS:  https://www.d3hoops.com/seasons/women/2019-20/schedule?tmpl=sos-template - there are 434 teams ranked.

Trinity scheduled stiff opponents in pre-season.  They are currently 109th in SOS.
Southwestern is 155th (playing Trinity and AC twice already helps, also played UT-D and UMHB)
TLU, 251st.
Centenary, 284th.
Colorado is 304th.
Dallas, 322nd.
Schreiner, 347th.
Austin, 355th.

So unless you are Trinity, those kinds of SOSs aren't going to help you when you're on the table with the other regional contenders come Pool C selection time.  And 109th isn't very good, really - your other criteria would have to be superior in comparison. 

St. Thomas (TX) and JWU-Denver, as reclassifying/provisional members, aren't included in SOS calculations. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Let's remember something ... the ranking is nice, but the actual SOS number is the most important part. There are a number of teams with incredible SOS numbers but aren't winning games this season that are also in those rankings.

And remember, this is the NCAA's (DIII) SOS number used as part of the criteria for rankings, selections, bracketing, hosting, etc.

So to counter Ron's argument, here is Trinity's actual SOS number: .546

That number is actually really good. It will likely go down as conference schedules continue, but I doubt it will get into trouble areas.

So Ron ... Trinity isn't in as bad a shape as you think. Their "ranking" is simply in terms of how many teams ahead of them have better SOS numbers. But Babson (5th at 9-7 .614) or Bates (7th at 8-8 and .606), along with others, aren't going to be in the conversation for rankings, selections, hosting, etc.

You are looking at the wrong number.

[Ron Boerger]

That's why you get the big bucks, Dave - straightening out fans who get it wrong 

Seriously, thanks for the correction.   The SCAC still has problems compared to other, stronger conferences in this regard.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

That's why you get the big bucks, Dave - straightening out fans who get it wrong 

Seriously, thanks for the correction.   The SCAC still has problems compared to other, stronger conferences in this regard.

Not to correct you again, but ... big bucks? Where?

Yep. Scheduling is a challenge. ASC has some bad numbers most years, but that is also because some teams in some conferences just don't care enough to schedule well in any sense of the definition.

[jekelish]

It's tough, especially with Tyler recently moving up to D2, finding a lot of high quality opponents in the area and if you don't have the budget to head to one of the tournaments on the east or west coast, you're basically relying on the people you do have playing well. That's one place Rhodes having a down year and Hendrix being REALLY down is killing AC this season.