MBB: Colonial States Athletic Conference

[chizwiz]

1 Karma point to the first person who can tell me what the following people were famous for:  Monte Irvin, Cab Calloway, and Kwame Nkrumah.

By the way, you will not be educating me with this information.  I also don't think any of these people measure up to EU's most famous alum, Tony Campolo.  He could be more influential than any man I have ever met.

[njlincolnlion]

chizwiz:

My comments are about Lincoln and Eastern, why bring Boston College Swarthmore, etc. into the conversation?

[njlincolnlion]

If you don't know who Monte Irvin, Kwame Nkrumah, and Cab Calloway are, then, I'll just let other posters on the boards help you out.

[cold_case]

1 Karma point to the first person who can tell me what the following people were famous for:  Monte Irvin, Cab Calloway, and Kwame Nkrumah.

Monte Irvin was a baseball legend with the Giants; I believe Calloway was an band leader; Kwame Nkrumah I'm not sure of but I'll take a shot, did he run a taco stand?

[njlincolnlion]

two out of three is not bad  .  Kwame Nkrumah was the first president of Ghana.

[WolfPAC]

This is not about academic integrity its about losing a basketball game to an independent status institution.   LU is a good school.   EU is a good school.  Stop and realize at least all of you are getting or have gotten college degrees. 



Why attack the institution?  Alvernia lost plain and simple.  What if Alvernia lost to Immaculata in the title game?   Guess someone would be attacking Immaculata as well.  Human nature.

Put all that negative energy into something constructive in promoting D3 basketball.   

At least you guys aren't from Cabrini  ........... the backstabbing capital of the world.     

[njlincolnlion]

WolPAC:

You couldn't have said it better my friend.

[chairman]

Chiz-

I think Thurgood Marshall is the trump card there, with Hughes being a close second. The historical names have it. Now that being said, there are significant questions concerning the MO of Lincoln's meteoric rise from an also ran to back to back "sweet 16" member.

I'm not familiar enough with the players or the institution to make judgments on the situation with any degree of certainty, but I wonder at what price glory? Did the institution with deep historical roots sell its soul to win games? I think the only people who can answer that question are the people in their athletic administration and who are close enough to the situation to know how nine non-freshmen first year players show up on a roster. 

I know that DIII requires an internal review every two years of financial aid practices to make sure that athletes are receiving aid at the same level as comparably equipped students from the rest of the university. With an eye for DII, it would be easy to turn a blind eye to "athademic scholarships" and other irregularities. Further, it would be interesting to see how admissions practices were tweaked to admit basketball players. Schools have the opportunity to do as they please that way, (although the clearing house is going to be a bear if they have been bending things.), but those things eventually catch up. You can't sell yourself as an historically significant institution that has decided to set aside academic standards in the interests of winning basketball games.

I have a problem with the leadership of a program that obscenely runs up the score early in the year, apologizes for it, and then fails to realize the necessity of being on your best behavior under the spotlight. Of course, the coach was the one who let Sammie Wylie make 23 three-pointers in a 200 point win, so why would they listen to little things like not rubbing salt in the wound by dunking on opponents at the conclusion of already decided contests. If you want to be seen as being high class, you have got to be high class.

If Lincoln wins a national championship with 16 guys who don't graduate and who don't learn about conducting themselves in a first class way, what have they gained? I have the utmost respect for the tradition of Lincoln University, and would love to see it hold it's athletic program to a higher standard on the things that really matter.

As an alum, NJLincoln, you want to feel proud of the way the young men of the institution conduct themselves while wearing the orange and blue. I would encourage you to do everything in your power as an alum to articulate how important it is for the team to win the right way.

[WolfPAC]

I love it when a team blows somebody out and dunks its butt off even if they are up by 30 pts.  Gets emotions flowing especially if my team is winning.   

It happens when a team is superior to another team no matter the make up or style of play.  If a Pac team schedules a game against an independent and that happens that too bad!    If LU is that horrible in its conduct why do the PAC schools continue to play them?

All I know if my team was defensive enough there would not be many dunks but people would be layed out on the ground trying to rub the salt in my wounds.  I think there may be an intimidation factor with playing LU but they are beatable when a real team concept is implemented the right way.  Have to execute with a good coach behind you instead of downing a program like LU which creates competition despite how it runs its program.

Now, if I am wrong and LU is breaking all kinds of so called compliances in D3 I may feel differently.   I know some schools in the PAC who have guys who are today and gone tomorrow as well.   LU is good school but if they choose to run their program their way and win championships w/o complying (alledgedly) then LU admn must live with it.

Its not whether you win or lose but how you play the game you are saying...?  Where is the investigative body of the PAC enforcing the rules?  How could they apply rules to schools that are not in a conference and are independent.  If a school gets a really bad reputation isn't it easier for all the other schools to just stop accepting games?

If nobody plays a school they cannot win anything !   Therefore LU cannot be that out of compliance and they have a program that is in complliance so bashing them is making no sense.  Rather beating up on them with a good team makes sense.
   

[sludge]

Greetings from the Old Dominion Athletic (ODAC) conference.

Is LU an intimidating type of team, then?  I'd like to hear more about their style of play and what to look for.

[njlincolnlion]

chairman:

Thank you for your considerate response and let me help you understand the program that I have followed the last five years.  I don't understand your question about nine non freshman first year players.

I looked at the 18 players on the roster and have found five freshmen that we don't need to review.  There are three Sophmores, Dante Blanton who came to lincoln and played as a freshman.  There is a link www.bmorehoops.com that found while googling under Dante Blanton that proved his freshman status as he was a Dunbar player who had not decided on which college to attend,  Keyon Johnson, is playing in his first season, and I don't have any information on Rashawn Dennis.  there are seven juniors.  Tyreek Byard has played for 2 years after transferring from Temple based on John Chaney's reccomendation.  Brandon Wilchcombe is a junior college player from Gloucester Community College in New Jersey.  Earl White, Darryl White, Fred Luke and Garrick Wooten has been with the program three years.  Wooten came to Lincoln with his Randallstown (MD)  teamate John Bunch who was a 7 footer, and led the nation (DIII) in blocked shots as a freshman.  Bunch transferred to Monmouth University (NJ) after his freshman year.  Ebbert Barnes I have no information on and if you look at the stats, he dosen't contribute all that much.  Seniors Sami Wylie and Thomas Lahart have been with Lincoln playing for three years. Dwight Dean, who was not listed is in his second season after transferring from South Carolina State,  Freshman JaJuan Robinson, a key conributor earlier in the season was ruled academically ineligible for the second semester.

My problem with chizwiz had to do with making comments on the Lincoln's legacy, and academic reputation without having the facts.  I for one had a problem with the 201 points, and when I found out they were replacement  (with two bench and the coach) players, because OSU-Marion (a d3 provisional program)  staters did not make the trip, and the school was a last minute fill in for a DII school that dropped out, it still didn't make it right. 

Lincoln is a fine institution, and has had a tremendous Track program without any NCAA infractions for more than 20 years as witnessed by the 16 NCAA DIII Championships, so there were no athademic case for the Track Team, and the New AD from DII Mankato Sate in MN would not jepordize Lincoln's application into DII.  Even with Lincoln changing divisions, the NCAA still has control over student /athlete requirements.

I hope I've cleared some of the issues up regarding Lincoln's men's Basketball team, and trust me I along with Thousands of Lincoln Alumni around the world would not aloow anyne, any team, or situation tarnish a legacy of 153 years.

[WolfPAC]

Go Lincoln!

You don't need to explain yourself to anyone just keep winning and don't listen to the hogwash and jealousy.

LU is a fine institution, maybe I will go back to school and get my doctorate there in the near future.

Seems like the school is serious and has athletes who come to play! !

[Jon]

WolfPAC,

You earlier asked why PAC schools "continue to play [Lincoln]" if Lincoln is so horrible in its conduct.  A quick survey shows no PAC school has scheduled Lincoln since the 05-06 season when your Cavs hosted the Lions.  This conversation has stemmed from NCAA Championship games where teams have no say in who is scheduled.

Since I've opened my mouth, I'll post some of my opinions...there's a little too much anger from the Lions on the floor.  Case in point from the first round...Alvernia senior Ryan Finger extended a hand to help a Lincoln player off the court after the two collided going after the ball.  The Lincoln player wanted to part in the assistance, and instead chose to roll over the other direction to avoid the hand.  That in and of itself isn't enough to warrant mention, but when an official comes over to explain Finger's intent and the Lincoln player makes an effort to turn his head away from and pay no attention to the official that's when I take exception.  The world's not out to get you, it's just an opponent trying to act in a sporting manner.

Unfortunately I was not able to stay in D.C. for Saturday's game, but according to what I've heard, the way the Lions handled the last few possessions of the game does nothing to improve the image.  I'm not going to comment to the character of the entire institution based on the action of a small percentage of its students, in this case, student-athletes.  I don't think it's fair to the history of the school, but I do think the current players could stand a refresher on the concept of "representing the institution."

Sludge, welcome to the PAC Chat.  Here's what I think you can expect from the Middle-Atlantic representative in your sectional.  The game isn't over until you hit 00:00.  Ask any of the opponents listed under "20-plus point comeback" in the Lincoln postseason media guide, but also check with the defending national champion, which I believe overcame a late, sizeable deficit in last-year's one-point win over Lincoln.  The Lions will shoot early in the clock at any point in the game from any place on the floor.  I would venture to say the concept of "time and score" isn't throughly studied at Lincoln.  They have a style and it's played for 40 minutes.

Offensively Lincoln has as many if not more athletes than any other team in the tournament (that statement is largely opinion since I haven't seen all teams in the tournament).  The guards are strong, quick, and physical.  If they shoot a decent percentage they'll be tough to beat.  They can win the game without winning the turnover battle.  I would venture to say that on any other team the offense would run through Byard, a more than capable post player, but he and Dean seem content to track down long range missfires and score second-chance points.

Looks like a good weekend to be in the Va. Beach area.  All three games should be high-level Division III contests.

[Matt Letourneau]

For the record--

Despite having attempted a whole bunch of them, Lincoln never actually completed a dunk against Catholic.  But in case some of you missed it, here's what happened in the last 11 seconds of that game.

Catholic was down 12, I believe and doing what every team down double digits tries to do--score quickly.  They had pulled their seniors at that point and were letting the underclassman get a taste of the NCAA Tournament.  Freshman Danny Quinn (a back up) had the ball in the paint area and turned to take a shot.  The Lincoln player guarding him then literally reached around his neck with his hands and tried to swat away the ball.  He did it with such force that his arms squeezed around Quinn's neck, and Danny fell to the ground VERY hard.  If it were the NFL, the defender would have been called for a horsecollar tackle, it was the same exact motion.  The officials immediately ran in to attend to Quinn and all three at once made the intentional foul call.  Keep in mind, the foul was called on the team that was UP 12.   Lincoln should not have even been playing tight defense at that point.  Fouling is an absolute no-no, but an intentional foul? That's just plain out of control anger.

So Catholic shoots its free throws, gets the balls back, again tries to score quickly.  The ball is rebounded by Lincoln with 8 seconds left.  The Lincoln player takes off down the court on a fast break.  Instead of pulling up and holding the ball like 99.9% of sportsman would do, he decides it would be a great time to try a reverse dunk.  So with a second or two left, he dribbles on up, elevantes really high--and blows his dunk.  Buzzer goes off, game over.

And you wonder why I have a problem with Lincoln?  I've seen a lot of basketball at this level, and I've never seen anything so disrespectful in my life.

I make no comment about anything other than what I saw on the court--that's the wrong way to play, and I hope somebody can hang with them, because Lincoln will likely fall apart and those cocky players can learn a lesson.  An out of control team in a victory becomes an impossible team to control when they are trailing. 

[chizwiz]

LeTourneau, good stuff there.  I agree with you wholeheartedly on sportsmanship and standards of play.

lincolnlion, please remind me why you are even posting in this area.