MBB: Colonial States Athletic Conference

[chairman]

"Did I ever tell you I was in a barbershop quartet in Skokie, IL?"

Seriously though. I appreciate your responses to my little jibe. WolfPAC and C, you must know that there is nothing malicious in my statement, but I feel that the apparent collapse of the PAC men's basketball in Radnor (EU has a St.Davids address, go figure) magnifies the issue in your mind. I think the PAC is down the past two years. I believe that Dzik leaving has something to do with it. I also believe that Villanova and before them St. Joe's have grabbed much of the spotlight in the past three years. There is a lot of basketball in Philly, and the PAC is becoming more and more of a hidden entity. Probably something for the league to look at.

Kaiser, I love your argument about the women's programs. I think it appears to be very strong. A couple things though. I believe Cabrini and Neumann both have created winning women's programs, but their men's programs appear to be racing in opposite directions. Also interesting that the Mighty MAC took on a program with perennially weak basketball programs in Arcadia.

I think the argument also breaks down with Eastern a bit, but I could not come close to explaining how. EU's women went oh-fer in the PAC last year, but were a bit of an anomaly amongst women's teams at the school. (and with the brand new cross country teams the reason that Eastern didn't win the President's cup on the women's side last year.) This fall the three main Eastern women's teams went 31-1-1 in PAC regular season play, and Lacrosse went 10-0 last spring.  Not sure how that happens, but it appears that it did.

It is fascinating to see the GMC, Alvernia, Cabrini triangle and how it works historically. My only thought about Eastern's men is that the school itself fits into a little bit more of a niche that might make it easier to keep recruiting momentum going. Not to go too deep into this, but suffice it to say that while Eastern bumps into PAC schools while recruiting a number of kids, they also have access to a different pool of kids that are looking at Eastern, Messiah, Gordon, Wheaton, and a few others. This is very helpful in the soccer recruiting, but as the basketball demographic is slightly different it is not quite as useful for men's basketball, but it still serves a purpose.

Time will tell whether the Eastern women will catch up to the rest of the school's women's  programs, but I would not come close to calling you an idiot. Team success is going to be based on staffing decisions, budgets (for competition and recruitment), facilities, and department culture.  With the exception of the particular intricacies (the presence of certain strong majors more typically populated by one gender or the other) of the school and the personality of the coach, there should be nearly no difference in the success of the programs. It is a very interesting thought.

[chairman]

widener up 45-43 with 15 minutes to play.

[PacMan20]

Just some food for thought!

I am going to use Cabrini as an example.  There were many reasons for the programs success throughout their run with Dzik, but the one I will focus on was the talent level.  Many of their players were guys who weren't necessarily D3 players.  What I mean by that is that they recruited guys that could have played at a higher level, not as stars but still been able to compete.  They were able to do this because of the successfulness of the program and the great coaching.

In the current landscape of the PAC, I just do not see many players that could play at a higher level.  It is easy to see why.  For example, If you are a high school prospect that maybe has Ivy League potential.  Lets just say that the D1 route doesnt work out.  Where is this player going to go? A local PAC school or school like Ursinus which goes to the tournament every year.  I think the answer is clear.

As already said before, I believe that the conference is heading in a downward spiral.  What needs to be done to solve the problem can be debated.  I'm not saying I have the answer, but something has to be done because it would be sad to see the PAC fall completely apart.


Does anyone feel that the decline of the PAC may be due to the decline in talented high school players in the area?

[chizwiz]

EU beats Widener (a MAC team), 76-70.

Interesting . . .

More to come.

[WolfPAC]

Just some food for thought!

I am going to use Cabrini as an example.  There were many reasons for the programs success throughout their run with Dzik, but the one I will focus on was the talent level.  Many of their players were guys who weren't necessarily D3 players.  What I mean by that is that they recruited guys that could have played at a higher level, not as stars but still been able to compete.  They were able to do this because of the successfulness of the program and the great coaching.

In the current landscape of the PAC, I just do not see many players that could play at a higher level.  It is easy to see why.  For example, If you are a high school prospect that maybe has Ivy League potential.  Lets just say that the D1 route doesnt work out.  Where is this player going to go? A local PAC school or school like Ursinus which goes to the tournament every year.  I think the answer is clear.

As already said before, I believe that the conference is heading in a downward spiral.  What needs to be done to solve the problem can be debated.  I'm not saying I have the answer, but something has to be done because it would be sad to see the PAC fall completely apart.


Does anyone feel that the decline of the PAC may be due to the decline in talented high school players in the area?

Perhaps the problem is with team sports in general.  Seems like it is more and more difficult to coach some of these kids who want to be superstars.
Junkyard ball vs team ball.   


The mentality at the HS level may have everything to do with it as you imply indirectly.  Why would anyone at the high school level with talent go to a d3 school & pay?  Especially a PAC school.   Makes me thing the PAC itself is not a problem but rather the institutions who make up the PAC specifically are not great choices for a student athlete to play ball!  On the other had, non PAC schools may have more winning traditions and are an easier sell.

It is truly a sin.  Until the PAC gets a great coach or a national champion I am afraid it will barely stay afloat.   

[Coach C]

Chairman, Chiz -

What did you think of the game?  Were you in attendance?  I was a little surprised that Coach Carideo did not have more confidence in his young big men.  WIth his center in foul trouble, he had very little inside presence and played into EU's hands.  I know he was upset about the foul disparity, but his team wwas not very phisical on offense and didnt tak it to EU.  EU on the other had was quite physical and thus got to the line a TON more. 

Bottom line, this Widener team has talent but apparently the coach doesn't think some of it is ready to play.  I am not in their practices, but I would have thought a non-conference game at home is a good place to get these guys some minutes.

Volpe is a tough kid and was the key player for EU tonight.  Coaching staff did a nice job as well.

Thoughts?

[chizwiz]

Coach C,

Great game . . . at least for PAC and EU fans.  Not just Volpe being tough, but DiMaria and Johnson!  I actually want to compliment the coaching staff.  They did some amazing stuff tonight, and I'm sure the PAC coaches wished they were there to see it.

I see your point about Carideo not feeling some players were ready.  Though I'm not sure the foul disparity was that "dispare".  12 fouls EU to 18 fouls on Widener; you are right, the FT's differential was big, and I would attribute that to what Nadelhoffer has been trying to get his guys to do.  They have finally started taking the ball to the rim instead of jacking it up from deep if they can't get an open shot.  This is something that Bobby Black and Brent Voorhees would never do.

I don't know if Widener was less physical on offense - I think that EU was just better on defense, especially in the second half, where the shot clock seemed to get dangerously close to zero before an open man was found in close view of the basket.

Don't you think EU is making a bigger case for themselves?  Widener is a good-not-great team this year and tied for first in conference (albeit early in the conf season).  For EU it was a big win, as Widener is respected somewhat like Cabrini used to be respected pre-Macciocca.

I was very surprised that Ty Coleman saw minutes so quickly after rejoining the team.  Maybe this will encourage him to start studying.  Also, where the heck was Flanagan in the box score?  I wonder if he continues to think that he needs to be completely unguarded before he can shoot a 3.

[Coach C]

I think that Eastern continues to develop as a program.  I am not sure they are where they can get to yet, and they arent at the level of the Cabrini teams that won the PAC or went to the Sweet 16, but they are improving.  They are good enough to win this league.

I wasn't surprised to see Coleman in quickly.  I think the philosophy of this coaching staff has been to forgive transgressions after appropriate penance.  He did his time and now he gets another chance.  Hopefully the impression is made.

As for Widener, this is a talented team that lacks experienced depth.  Coaches in thier first year with a team often don't get the full potential out of a squad because it takes so long to get to know a team and the NCAA give us so little pre-season time.  I think this is a teams that will finish 4th in a good, but not great MAC-C.

C

As for Widener

[chairman]

The big kid got lost in the match-up with Johnson. He scored the first four points of the game and had a big block on Malloy, but he did pick up some fouls trying to guard Johnson on the perimeter. As Eastern's primary big, Johnson is a tough match-up for a traditional post player. Volpe hit a couple big shots, but I thought the little guy off the bench was the story of the night. Williams steal and lay-up changed the game.

I think another interesting thing to note is the play of DiMaria. He had 31 against Neumann and 18 tonight, and I don't want to say you don't notice it, because that could sound demeaning, but he is putting together some hard-hat scoring nights. Chizzle, Flanagan was out of rotation against the Pride (huh?What's wrong with Pioneers?). If the past five games have been any indication, look for him to pop in 12 or 15 tomorrow night. Not based on anything logical, but the EU staff seems to go with a different rotation every night, and recently it has been working. Tonight it was Williams.

Big possession to end the half when Widener missed the dunk and Coleman clanged home a 15 footer to end the half. Ty did good work inside, but I thought he was a little anxious to shoot the ball; I guess after nine months off you are ready to shoot. Coleman was the defensive alternative inside. They had played the big Freshman earlier, but it looked like they were more concerned with defending to close the half.

It looked like Widener got very one dimensional on the perimeter and forgot that they were bigger and more athletic. EU shot over 50% for the game. I would agree that the coaching staff had an outstanding game for EU. They solved their perimeter defending issues at halftime, and EU seemed to have good possessions out of every timeout. (I also thought Nadelhoffer called some critical ones to prevent turnovers when his guys were stranded.)

It is just one win, but I think it is a good win for EU, and I think it speaks well for the league as well. Obviously January 3rd is not the toughest date to play on the road, but it is a road win against an upper division MAC team. That needs to count for something.

Peace

[chairman]

Apu:   "Maybe all this good karma is just a bunch of bologna."
Homer: " Ummmmmmmmm. Caramel Bologna."

C Hizzle Dizzle... I lost a Karma. Can somebody explain how you get the candy? Seriously. I haven't felt mean, bitter, or even snippy in the last few weeks, and yet I am down at base camp Karma wise. Is there a method or manual for the distribution of Karmic treasures? Even if somebody put a big red mark on the post that causes one to be unkarmic, then we could be more enlightened. I don't post to earn Karma, but at this current rate I am losing Karma when I post, and we can't have that.

Pat Coleman can you help here?

[Pat Coleman]

FAQ linked at the bottom of my post.

[chairman]

Ahhhhhh. Smitten for not following directions. Fifth grade all over again. Thank you Pat.  Anyway, at this rate I'll be in Chizwiz land before dawn. Much apologies for invoking the name of Pat Coleman for such a little thing. Don't forget to sleep. Do we know who is smiting or applauding us? Eastern hosts Del Val another MAC-PAC affair tomorrow night.

[Coach C]

Smitten?  You are in love?  I think you mean SMOTE!

C

[chizwiz]

Smited.

[chizwiz]

Or maybe Smattered.