MBB: Colonial States Athletic Conference

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've been to Grinnell for a game.  I'll be at Cabrini tomorrow night (once again, likely the only person in the gym with an Eastern Nazarene College shirt on).  I think Castleton is using some of the Grinnell principles, but isn't sold out to it.  We'll see.

I don't think Cabrini will have much of an issue this weekend.  They may lack some height eventually - which was their downfall last year, but I have great respect for Mr. Lemons.  They're favorites against almost anybody with him running the show.

I'm looking forward to the early game, though - should be a really great match-up.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think Castleton State utilizes the System that Grinnell (Iowa) uses or a derivative of it.

Here's Castleton State's stats...
http://www.csc.vsc.edu/athletics/mbasketball/stats/teamstat.htm

And here is Grinnell's...
http://wm.grinnell.edu/athletics/mbasketball/statistics/MBK1112/teamcume.htm

Notice the similarities.  Both teams have a lot of guys who've taken over 100 shots.  Both teams have a lot of guys with double-digit minutes. Both teams have a lot of guys who score.  Both teams have taken a ton of threes.

If you're not familiar with The System, there's been a lot written on the subject.  ESPN and Sports Illustrated have written about it (as have we).  Here's one breakdown on how it works.  For Grinnell, there's actually a formula that determines how many shots they want to take. 

http://www.bball360.com/apps/blog/show/3876559-the-grinnell-basketball-offensive-system

I've never seen a System team before so I'm looking forward to Casleton State.

I don't think they're full-on "system."  They're certainly using a lot of players and shooting some threes, but if you look at the individual game box scores you don't see the kind of opponent stat lines that you do with a GC team.

Really, only Redlands, for a while, were really sold out to "the system."  I made the pilgrimage to Iowa a few years ago - and the experience is truly unique.  In the GC system the opponents almost never even take a three point shot because if they get that close there's an open basket for an easy lay-up.

You also see a lot more fouls because of the intensity of the press.  That press will be the determiner.  GC plays a press with all five guys in the backcourt, with one guy at half-court to run back and prevent the baseball pass.

Are you calling the game, Gordon?  Who's on the mic with you?  Maybe I'll stop by and say hello.

Both games should be awesome tomorrow.

[Pat Coleman]

Paul Culpo joined us on Hoopsville and said, paraphrasing: "It would be an insult to Grinnell to say we are playing their system."

I took this to mean that they just weren't playing it as well as Grinnell did, this being their first year. Takes a while to adjust.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Paul Culpo joined us on Hoopsville and said, paraphrasing: "It would be an insult to Grinnell to say we are playing their system."

I took this to mean that they just weren't playing it as well as Grinnell did, this being their first year. Takes a while to adjust.

Yeah, their opponents are still taking quite a few threes, which means Castleton is getting back on defense more than Grinnell would.  You know the re-learning of basketball instincts to run the system the way GC does takes long time.  It seems like most of the coaches who try to use it also try to adapt it to be a bit more "normal," which ruins the math.

I'll see tomorrow.  It will be interesting.  I love the system.

[Pat Coleman]

Or it could mean that Castleton's opponents simply haven't learned what MWC teams know.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Or it could mean that Castleton's opponents simply haven't learned what MWC teams know.

They played Colby-Sawyer in the conference final - there's no chance Bill Foti keeps a kid on the floor if he passes up a layup to pull up from three.

Ultimately, we'll find out tomorrow.

[gordonmann]

Hoops fan:

Yep. I'm on the call with Coach C.  Please do stop by to say hello.

[mailsy]

Looking forward to seeing you again and Coach C tonight.  Will be another great night at the Dixon Center tonight.  Looking forward to both games. 

GO CAVS!!!

[Swisscheese]

Very interesting, I still think Cavs have speed and if they can out rebound their opponent on the boards it will be difficult to maintain  the press for Castleton, plus the Cavs if they play up to the level they can will be able to hit from outside or get in the paint.  The Cavs may even be able to address the height issue better this year (I know ya cant teach height) with their speed but time will tell, hope to make it out to Radnor tonight and watch both games.  Favorite time of the year!

Hey Dave & Pat..... if Cabrini some how takes care of business this weekend, what is the possibility of them hosting another round as Wooster did last year? 

[ronk]

  Geographically, I'll lobby for Scranton to host.

[Reserved Seat]

ronk,
You must be an optimist.

[Swisscheese]

Scranton would not be a bad thing, if Cabrini does not have a chance, I would like that Ronk, but you know............probably not a chance.

[ronk]

  Yes, hope trumping experience.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

They'll try to stick with seeding.  We're all guessing Cabrini is the #1 seed, but if both they and Middlebury make it out, then we'll really know.  I might expect Midd to host, especially if Oswego is also there.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Just got back from Cabrini.  One great game and one giant joke.

Hobart and Ohio Wesleyan was awesome.  Craziest game I've seen in a while.  Hobart came out scared and OWU came out tight.  Wesleyan missed a bunch of easy shots in the first half, which kept Hobart in it.  Once they got over the nerves, they weren't too far behind, so they still had some confidence.

OWU was the better team all the way around, on the court.  Winters, the PG was spectacular.  Davis, sat quite a few minutes in both halves and really didn't get into the flow of the offense much.  The team was working so well and seemingly in control of the game, he didn't really need to do so.

Hobarts big man was held without a FG until 20 seconds left in the game.  He had made a ton of bad passes and no one could figure out why he played so many minutes.  Then, in that 20 second span, he drove the lane for two, made a steal and got fouled, hit a FT, missed the second, but then scored to take the lead.

Mike Neer, in my mind, won the game.  He simply coached a masterful performance out of an overmatched squad.  There's some real, young talent there for the future, but two games this year is an amazing success.

I don't think they have any chance to beat Cabrini tomorrow, but impressive night for Hobart.

Cabrini can play.  They've got a roster stocked with athletes that really doesn't drop off much at all from 2-10.  #1 is obviously Cory Lemons.  The man is amazing and he actually seems to give a crap this year.  They played sloppy, but against the monstrosity that was Castleton, there's not much else you could expect.

Castleton plays about 1.5 out of the five pillars of the Grinnell system.  They rotate a full five guys in and out about every 90 seconds or so.  They shoot lots of threes and run around like madmen on offense.  They do not press, although the do matchup full court (and Lemons, generally, made them look silly) and they don't send guys to the offensive boards.  They also are pretty methodical on offense.

In the end, they just didn't have height or athletes to compete with Cabrini.  The game was not nearly as close as the scoreboard indicated.  I give credit to the coach, they had to play this was to win their conference, but with the talent they had, there was a limit.  The guys played hard and they never gave up.  They cut a nearly 30 point lead to 13 with a couple minutes to go.  Castleton can be proud of their boys.

Cabrini is better than I thought and they're better than last year.  This year's team would not have lost to last year's Wooster team, for what it's worth.  I don't know if I'll make it back tomorrow, but it will be nice to see them in a "regular" game at some point to judge poise and decision-making.