MBB: Colonial States Athletic Conference

[chizwiz]

Wolfie,

Let's apply your logic to all basketball teams.

Cabrini went from top to bottom.  By your logic, they could never be bad.

Because Lincoln used to be horrid, they can't be good now.  That's a pretty good record for being bad, as you say.

Do you want me to continue?

[chairman]

"no offense to either team." Interesting you should say that. C-wizzle dizzle has already expressed adequate outrage of the flawed logic of your comments. In reality, it seems only fitting that the two programs should rise. Eastern has for a long time had nationally competitive women's volleyball teams and men's soccer teams, and several other teams (field hockey and women's lax) have been at or near the top of the league. From the time EU left the NAIA and went DIII the basketball coaching job was a part of the job description, and I believe the two coaches prior to Nadelhoffer were also ADs. Small wonder that there was an inadequate quantity of talent in the maroon and white.

The Eastern staff starting with Schauer and moving into Nadelhoffer's tenure has had to work very hard to recruit players into a program without a lengthy history of winning. Has anyone counted the number of assistants on the EU bench? They all hit the road regularly to see high school games. I think they've succeeded in bringing in quality players and changing the mindset of the program, and they should be able to build on the momentum gained over the past two years. Neumann's success for different reasons is no less surprising. They have a very good point guard who transfered in, and they have some other talented players who have been around for a bit. When they shoot well, they will be very difficult to play against.

Rutgers has never been a football power, but I don't think that you can look at their body of work this year and claim that their success was entirely the result of a weak Big East. To do so would be to discredit the hard work of the players and coaches in that program.
I know that seeing Cabrini down is tough, but you can't kill the league because of that.

[Coach K]

"As far as the PAC goes, I believe Neumann, Alvernia, Miseri and GMC are as good as any team in the mid-atlantic region."

Here is why I believe that Misericordia, even at 3-7 is as good as any team in the mid-atlantic region. Their last three games were against Susquehanna (D-1 transfer), King's (Who is also an excellent team), and Wilkes (down a bit, but still is Wilkes). They lost all three games by a combined 12 points, taking Susquehanna to OT. They defeated Desales who is on a little bit of a roll now. Yes they screwed up against Baptist Bible, but they are competitive every night against any team they played. I am not saying they are better then the competition, but they don't embarress the league when they step on the court in their non-league affairs.

Hope everyone had a good holiday, and that you all have a good new year!!

[chizwiz]

"As far as the PAC goes, I believe Neumann, Alvernia, Miseri and GMC are as good as any team in the mid-atlantic region."

Here is why I believe that Misericordia, even at 3-7 is as good as any team in the mid-atlantic region. Their last three games were against Susquehanna (D-1 transfer), King's (Who is also an excellent team), and Wilkes (down a bit, but still is Wilkes). They lost all three games by a combined 12 points, taking Susquehanna to OT. They defeated Desales who is on a little bit of a roll now. Yes they screwed up against Baptist Bible, but they are competitive every night against any team they played. I am not saying they are better then the competition, but they don't embarress the league when they step on the court in their non-league affairs.

Hope everyone had a good holiday, and that you all have a good new year!!

We are all dumber for listening to this mindless drivel.

You receive no points.

3-7.  You have no argument with this Miseri thing.  3-7.  Please.  3-7.  Practice?  Practice?  3-7.

[East Coast Eagle]

Did you really just say 4 teams in the PAC are amongst the top in the mid-atlantic region?

[chairman]

Now Chiz, you scam back two Karmas, and then you have to go mixing allusions to contemporary culture. Further, I do think that Miseri has been very close in a lot of games. They also had the distinction winning against Cabrini after being down by 31 in the second half. Sorry, I know there are at least a couple people that forgot that or at least had that image fading from their minds, and I know how much the Cabrini folks want to keep that memory fresh. Honestly though, there are teams in the PAC that can compete with and be in games against some of the better teams in the region, but there are very few teams that could be considered "top teams in the region."

Have a happy new year all.

[Coach K]

The choice of words I used was "as good as any". To be one of the top teams, you have to go out and show it by winning games on the floor and accumulating wins. I guess I wasn't too clear. All I was saying was that those teams I named, and I guess you could throw Eastern in there, could compete with the top level teams, but by no means are they one of the top 5-6 teams in the region, with the exception of maybe Alvernia.

[WolfPAC]

Coach K,

Plus, how do you leave Eastern out of that conversation when you put in Miseri and Neumann (who EU has beaten) and GMC (who EU is tied with in the PAC)?  Come to think of it, EU is tied for most wins in the PAC right now.

I think you made a statement without really thinking about what it meant.

Wiz.... based on your last two posts in disscussing the PAC teams ,, this is further evidence of how bad the PAC really is ! !

The day when EU & Neuman are the top PAC teams shows how dilluted the PAC has become.  No offense to either team,  but the parity of weakness is so clear, the PAC may have difficult times ahead.  Starting to sound like intramurals.

Wolfie,

I don't understand your first sentence there.  What gives "further evidence" of how bad the PAC is?

Also, how are Neumann and EU not supposed to be offended by your next statement?  Are you saying that both of these teams can never be good?  Sounds like it.  That's very closed-minded.

Chiz,

Trying to say that back in the day it was always Alvernia or Cabrini for the title.... then Gaye came along and Neuman always was in the playoffs but could never close it out with a good team effort against Dzik or McCloskey.

Then suddenly Cabrini dives Wesley improves, Alvernia loses some depth and that opened the door for mediocre teams that could not get over the hump at that time which would have been Eastern, Misri, and Gywen who was always in the thick.   This is what I based the (further evidence) statement on from my perspective.

To this end...  Eastern has a better coach in Nad.... & the McTammeys help a bit for them.  Otherwise more people might have been playing for Dzik instead of Neuman or Eastern if the admin did not shoot the program in the foot.    I admit, Eastern is much improved on their own hard work and committment, but one must admit that the absence of the Cavs gives all the teams an easy couple of wins which puts them over the hump. 

Please-- no offense taken  EU is a great upcoming program and deserves a better facility to broaden its program which would help in rallying the fans to take them to the next level..   however; just because these teams are beating Cabrini does not put a feather in their caps or truly take them to the next level base on the Cavs weakness.

Hope I did not confuse you worse... must be the bump on my head.

[WolfPAC]

"no offense to either team." Interesting you should say that. C-wizzle dizzle has already expressed adequate outrage of the flawed logic of your comments. In reality, it seems only fitting that the two programs should rise. Eastern has for a long time had nationally competitive women's volleyball teams and men's soccer teams, and several other teams (field hockey and women's lax) have been at or near the top of the league. From the time EU left the NAIA and went DIII the basketball coaching job was a part of the job description, and I believe the two coaches prior to Nadelhoffer were also ADs. Small wonder that there was an inadequate quantity of talent in the maroon and white.

The Eastern staff starting with Schauer and moving into Nadelhoffer's tenure has had to work very hard to recruit players into a program without a lengthy history of winning. Has anyone counted the number of assistants on the EU bench? They all hit the road regularly to see high school games. I think they've succeeded in bringing in quality players and changing the mindset of the program, and they should be able to build on the momentum gained over the past two years. Neumann's success for different reasons is no less surprising. They have a very good point guard who transfered in, and they have some other talented players who have been around for a bit. When they shoot well, they will be very difficult to play against.

Rutgers has never been a football power, but I don't think that you can look at their body of work this year and claim that their success was entirely the result of a weak Big East. To do so would be to discredit the hard work of the players and coaches in that program.
I know that seeing Cabrini down is tough, but you can't kill the league because of that.

I was probably a little biased as well with the Cavs being down I must admit it.

But others need to admit the PAC is really down a couple of notches and is falling slightly more without the competitive addition of top talent.

I do not want to kill the league because of Cabrini you are correct... but it did contribute to a slight decline without a heritage of the all time winningest program in D111 and Coach Dzik.   Now they are only the 3rd or 4th winningest program in small colleges.  This must put a perspective on how the PAC has been affected negatively.

ONly time will tell I guess.   

I must say I am curious as hell as what will happen if Arcadia beats the Cavs.

[Coach C]

I've been watching this debate for a few days and feel compelled to weigh in. 

Do you know why we are able to argue about which of the top 6 teams is competitive with the top teams in the region?

I sure don't.

None of these teams would compete for a championship in any other league in the region.  None of these teams is a top 8 regional team.  None can compete for the top 25.

None.

Zero.

Zip.

Zilch.

And that's how the PAC has changed.

C

[Warren Thompson]

I've been watching this debate for a few days and feel compelled to weigh in. 

Do you know why we are able to argue about which of the top 6 teams is competitive with the top teams in the region?

I sure don't.

None of these teams would compete for a championship in any other league in the region.  None of these teams is a top 8 regional team.  None can compete for the top 25.

None.

Zero.

Zip.

Zilch.

And that's how the PAC has changed.

C

Coach C:

To what do you, yourself, attribute the not-for-the-better changes in the PAC?

[chairman]

Let's start with the Commonwealth:

At this point there are three unbeatens, Messiah, Leb Valley, and Widener. Susquehanna and Etown are both at 1-1 in the MAC. Messiah has played no PAC schools, but beat Albright, whom Alvernia handled pretty easily by only one. Can't make any judgments on the transitive property of victory, but it hardly seems that they are head and shoulders up. Lebanon Valley beat Arcadia by 7. Arcadia is at the bottom of the PAC heap right now. Widener beat Immaculata in overtime. They also thumped Cabrini, but then again....(fill in your own joke here). Elizabethtown lost to Neumann at Etown. Susquehanna beat Misericordia, (the 3-7 team for those who don't recall) in overtime.

I won't do all the work for the other leagues in the region, but if you look at the Centennial, it looks like Hopkins and the rest. Second place Ursinus got drilled by the same two Freedom teams that squeaked past 3-7 Misericordia. In the Freedom, 8-2 DeSales has jumped to an early 2-0 record, but their only in region loss is to, get this, 3-7 Misericordia. While there may not be a top eight regional team in the PAC, I don't think the gap is as big as the Cabriniites want to make it seem.

[WolfPAC]

I've been watching this debate for a few days and feel compelled to weigh in. 

Do you know why we are able to argue about which of the top 6 teams is competitive with the top teams in the region?

I sure don't.

None of these teams would compete for a championship in any other league in the region.  None of these teams is a top 8 regional team.  None can compete for the top 25.

None.

Zero.

Zip.

Zilch.

And that's how the PAC has changed.

C

I am glad someone out there understands ! !

Well said Coach C. ! ! !

People out there need to put things into perspective in an objective way.  The PAC has slipped a few notches.  The teams may have great student athletes who are committed & battle but the conference is not competitive on a regional or national basis.    Wake UP!

Look at William Patterson and tell who in the PAC could beat them!

[kaiser sose]

I think that it is only a matter of time until Neuman gets very, very good assuming the guy can coach at all.  Based upon what I have heard about Stizel it is apparent he is going to recruit talented kids and, because they can get anyone with a pulse admitted, I think they will soon pull away from everyone in terms of the talent pool.

In my opinion, one of the reasons that the PAC has dropped of a bit is the quality of the staff's does not seem as stong as it once was in the league.  Once upon a time you had some assistants who could really, really recruit in the league.  Not sure guys of that caliber are still around.

[Coach K]

People out there need to put things into perspective in an objective way.  The PAC has slipped a few notches.  The teams may have great student athletes who are committed & battle but the conference is not competitive on a regional or national basis.    Wake UP!

Look at William Patterson and tell who in the PAC could beat them!

Having talked to people who have seen William Patterson, I am not sure many teams in the Mid-Atlantic... period... could be competitive with them