MBB: Colonial States Athletic Conference

[Coach C]

And the Centennial teams are better than the PAC teams.  I have seen three of them (JHU, Ursinus and F&M, who STINK) that would beat anybody in the PAC right now.  Including Alvernia.  And yeah Miseri has a win over DeSales, but 8-2 is 8-2 and Miseri is 3-7 in the PAC.

As for Neumann, they have had every opportunity to get players in for years.  Coach Nugent could coach.  So why are they going to take a big step up now?  becasue they are committed to winning?  They always have been, but they have struggled to get guys in who would stick for four years.  When that chacngtes, Neumann will win consistently.

Warren, the problem is that men's hoops is not a priority at these schools.  They would rather be average little liberal arts schools with no distinguishing athletics programs.  That's fine.  If that is what they want, then drop the programs, sell off  the $10 million dollar sports centers to LA Fitness and move on.

C

[Warren Thompson]

As for Neumann, they have had every opportunity to get players in for years.  Coach Nugent could coach.  So why are they going to take a big step up now?  becasue they are committed to winning?  They always have been, but they have struggled to get guys in who would stick for four years.  When that changes, Neumann will win consistently.

Warren, the problem is that men's hoops is not a priority at these schools.  They would rather be average little liberal arts schools with no distinguishing athletics programs.  That's fine.  If that is what they want, then drop the programs, sell off  the $10 million dollar sports centers to LA Fitness and move on.

C

Thanks, Coach. As to Neumann, if their current ice hockey program is any indication, perhaps they've committed to gross athletic improvement. The skaters have 23 Canadians on roster and are very competitive in the ECAC West Conference (which currently has four ranked teams, including #1 Manhattanville); they also have a very driven coach, though he truly needs to diversify his behind-the-bench expletive
vocabulary: every other word out of his mouth is "[sexual congress]" or some variation thereof. 

[chizwiz]

And the Centennial teams are better than the PAC teams.  I have seen three of them (JHU, Ursinus and F&M, who STINK) that would beat anybody in the PAC right now.  Including Alvernia.  And yeah Miseri has a win over DeSales, but 8-2 is 8-2 and Miseri is 3-7 in the PAC.

As for Neumann, they have had every opportunity to get players in for years.  Coach Nugent could coach.  So why are they going to take a big step up now?  becasue they are committed to winning?  They always have been, but they have struggled to get guys in who would stick for four years.  When that chacngtes, Neumann will win consistently.

Warren, the problem is that men's hoops is not a priority at these schools.  They would rather be average little liberal arts schools with no distinguishing athletics programs.  That's fine.  If that is what they want, then drop the programs, sell off  the $10 million dollar sports centers to LA Fitness and move on.

C

Coach C,

I'm sensing a lot of pent-up anger in this post of yours.  I do agree that it seems PAC schools are not investing as much in sports as athletic fans would like to see.

I do have a problem with you saying that the CC is better than the PAC.  Your proof is that JHU, F&M, and Ursinus can beat every team in the PAC including Alvernia.  This sounds more like conjecture than proof.  Actually, can you tell me who played F&M on Dec. 19?  What was the score in that game?

Plus, I'm not too worried if a PAC team gets beat by JHU, considering that they are ranked 13th in the most recent poll (and the only one that matters).  By the way, Hopkins only game against a PAC team is a win against Immaculata (not a great PAC team yet) and only by 13.

Funny, your CC is so great.  Their best team was only up by 5 with two minutes left against a middle of the road (at best) PAC team.  Way to hit your FT's, JHU!

[Coach C]

Chiz -

Alvernia by 15 or so as I recall.  I also know it was about a 5 point game with about 6 to play.  Getting back to the original point, doe you think that means Alvernia can win the CC Championship?  How about the CAC?  ANy teams to play with the best of that league? 

I'm not angry.  I am disappointed.  I was there the day the conference was started and the schools that are left seem to have forgotten how bad things were for them before the PAC.  They are falling back down the road they came from.  That's just sad.

C

[WolfPAC]

And the Centennial teams are better than the PAC teams.  I have seen three of them (JHU, Ursinus and F&M, who STINK) that would beat anybody in the PAC right now.  Including Alvernia.  And yeah Miseri has a win over DeSales, but 8-2 is 8-2 and Miseri is 3-7 in the PAC.

As for Neumann, they have had every opportunity to get players in for years.  Coach Nugent could coach.  So why are they going to take a big step up now?  becasue they are committed to winning?  They always have been, but they have struggled to get guys in who would stick for four years.  When that chacngtes, Neumann will win consistently.

Warren, the problem is that men's hoops is not a priority at these schools.  They would rather be average little liberal arts schools with no distinguishing athletics programs.  That's fine.  If that is what they want, then drop the programs, sell off  the $10 million dollar sports centers to LA Fitness and move on.

C

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD COACH C.

Men's hoops is not a priority at these schools ! !

The fact that they won't drop the program is another facet of institutional neglect.  Guess it just doesn't sink in.....

[Warren Thompson]

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD COACH C.

Men's hoops is not a priority at these schools ! !

The fact that they won't drop the program is another facet of institutional neglect.  Guess it just doesn't sink in.....

At the same time, D3 venues have other -- and often different -- values and priorities than athletic success. If they didn't, they just might as well be competing in one of the lower divisions. (I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, of course.)

[WolfPAC]

I was there also when the PAC was started and it is headed back to the wrong direction.

The PAC was golden for a few years but I don't think it was allowed to reach its full potential.   The conference was created with the D3 philosophy in mind, yet because of all the hard work and the athletes I believe it exceeded its boundaries in a sense. 

The conflict is between the committment, passion, and hard work of all the coaches and athletes but the lack of the above from the administration at these small institutions who are neglecting the growth potential from athletics.  These institutions end up riding the coat tails of the athletic accomplishments but do not sufficiently support their programs with such vigor as other priorities.    If athletics was in place only as an outlet for the students why have the program.   Intramurals and club sports would suffice.

It is truly sad when the athletes, coaches, and fans with heart and passion in the PAC are basically stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The PAC is not growing correctly....... kind of like a plush lawn not being watered when you go on vacation in the summer then you come back and wonder why the grass is not as green as the neighbors.   Looks like the house is neglected and it becomes a hard sell or gives off a bad impression.  No one would ever think of investing a few dollars in a sprinkling system which would solve the problem.  Instead, the weeds grow giving off a green impression and it makes other lawns which were not as  nice look even better (EU Neumann).  Technically, the lawn is green (the PAC is there) but it is not a true legitimate lawn per say which is nurtured or maintained.  Just by luck it stays green until the Fall when the weeds die out and the problem is noticed.   ONly its too late in December to plant grass ! !   Now if the owner of the lawn had a sprinkler system and used the Scott's program (full-time coach) then the lawn would be a winner and the whole neighborhood would start to change to meet the standards.
One or two of the neighbors still try though...(Alvernia) but cannot afford to keep the maintaining the lawn.

This will not happen any time soon though in the PAC because the PAC is only worried about taking the trash out right now....... the weeds are still green though so they are keeping the programs.


Hope I am not too way out there.  I have to teach like this to the little guys to get through to them.   I found the only difference between elementary school, high school, and college is the size of the desks.

Please no offense.... just my view.

[Warren Thompson]

WolfPAC:

While I'm not fully certain what you mean in your post above, perhaps it's the case that some D3 institutions have decided that "athletic excellence" (whatever that means) is not consistent with their goals, objectives, and mission. At the same time, I do not know if this is actually the case anent the PAC members.

(Neumann, of course, per its men's ice hockey program, may well be a notable exception. Whether that is good or bad I just don't know ... certainly, it bears looking into.)

[Coach C]

Neumann's ice hockey program is a revenue generation tool above all else.  Those Canadians come here and pay a steep price to play D3 Ice Hockey.

It's not necessarily that neumann is trying to do better in athletics.  They have always been innovators in finding a new revenue stream.

C

[Warren Thompson]

Neumann's ice hockey program is a revenue generation tool above all else.  Those Canadians come here and pay a steep price to play D3 Ice Hockey.

It's not necessarily that neumann is trying to do better in athletics.  They have always been innovators in finding a new revenue stream.

C

OK, Coach C. But what exactly do you mean by "finding a new revenue system"? Aren't D3 sports supposed to be light years away from serving as revenue "cash cows"? 

Plus, just how steep a price do those Canadians pay for the privilege of playing D3 hockey in suburban Philly?  (Surely they're not paying full freight, are they?)

[Ralph Turner]

Neumann's ice hockey program is a revenue generation tool above all else.  Those Canadians come here and pay a steep price to play D3 Ice Hockey.

It's not necessarily that neumann is trying to do better in athletics.  They have always been innovators in finding a new revenue stream.

C

OK, Coach C. But what exactly do you mean by "finding a new revenue system"? Aren't D3 sports supposed to be light years away from revenue "cash cows"? 

Plus, just how steep a price do those Canadians pay for the privilege of playing D3 hockey in suburban Philly?  (Surely they're not paying full freight, are they?)

The Canadians provide "diversity" that can be used by the school in the ranking systems such as the USNews & World Report ranking system.   

[Warren Thompson]

"Diversity," indeed, Ralph. Yet one wonders what those 23 guys from north of the border make of all those other folks from suburban Philly, a good many of whom have never tried on a pair of ice skates or ever once put stick to puck .... 

[kaiser sose]

Coach C - I guess I am not getting exactly where you are coming from on the school's level of commitment now versus say 10 years ago or so?  It would certainly appear to me that more of the institutions have coaches that are employed full time by the schools (this appears to be the measuring stick here for institutional commitment, for some reason) then ever before.

In response to your posting about why would Neuman be better now?  By your own argument - are they not displaying more committment to winning by simply  having made the coach a full time employee?

I get a sense that Stitzel has the "fever" bad.  It has been a long long time since the PAC had a young Coach who was so obviously looking at making this his profession and looked at his current job as a means to an end.  Just call it instinct but I get a gut feeling that Stitzel is going do well at Neuman.

WT - I love all these general comments stating the glory and wholesomeness of D3 athletics!  D1 is bad becausee it is all about the money while D3 remains pure  C'mon, the combination of atheltic recruiting and accelerated degree paper mills is all that keeps most of these PAC schools still floating. I am sure you know that without athletics these schools may not even stay solvent.

[Warren Thompson]

kaiser sose:

Please know that I'm more than passingly familiar with the dark side of D3 athletics ....

[Coach C]

WT -

You made me laugh so hard my sides hurt!

I don't know the specifics on the contract that Neumann has with the placement service for the Canadian athletes.  My guess is that they pay about 80% of sticker price.  That's significantly more than the average student at Neumann pays, where the discount rate is about 40%.  both figures are pretty much average for schools like Neumann.

Kaiser  -

Stitzel has the fever.  And he's FT.  The question is if the school will support him as fully as they would need to in order to be highly successful in a very competitive region.

C