MBB: Colonial States Athletic Conference

[WolfPAC]

Pat Coleman.

Where do you honestly see the PAC heading in terms of national attention and quality play within D3?

[WolfPAC]

First off sorry my first post will be so negative.  WolfPac, why dont you start a new forum titled "Cabrini" and post until your heart is content.  Or even better why dont you apply for the Cabrini job, or even better yet take the Presidents job.  You seem to have all the answers.  Be proud that a PAC team had a good season but chose a bad time to have an off game.  Just because Cabrini has had some off years doesn't reflect the rest of the  PAC's success.  Everything you say goes right back to Cabrini or institutional neglect or conference neglect. Get over it, your living in the past. Congrats to Alvernia.

I used to be the president of the dorms when we used to whoop your butts without even trying.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat Coleman.

Where do you honestly see the PAC heading in terms of national attention and quality play within D3?

Nowhere particularly. The league is not getting better with its changes in alignment.

[WolfPAC]

Pat Coleman.

Where do you honestly see the PAC heading in terms of national attention and quality play within D3?

Nowhere particularly. The league is not getting better with its changes in alignment.

Thank you for your objective answer puts things in perspective. The positive is there is still a chance for someone to shine but if the PAC stays contained with its small private schools full of institutional neglect the conference will not grow with the great tradition and honor it needs to expand.  "The alignment is making it worse I believe and somehow it may get more dilluted until the inevitable occurs.    Only hoping someone out there understands and can make changes.

[chizwiz]

WolfPac:

I couldn't help laughing when you mentioned Lincoln being in the "sticks".  I still recall see the "Lincoln University" sign in the cornfield off Route 1 when I went down there as a freshman, decades ago.

Re: "in the sticks"

Don't worry about it. Merely say, instead, bucolic or rustic. Those two terms have far more charms, I think, for those folks who've never seen a cow or a field from whence come their veggies .... 

How about "campy"?

[chizwiz]

LU has come along way despite its critics.

They should take pride ! ! !

Getting a bad rap because they cancel a game is nonsense.



Like I said, the best Pac team cannot beat LU... Alvernia can only win in the Pac when it really counts.  Don't hear those gloaters now.

Cabrini used to whip up on Lincoln but always held respect for them until this new regime came around.  Lincoln has turned the tide and is a class act despite the bad mouthing because they are independent.

Think people are jealous because they cannot get to D2 because of their administrative policies. 

Oh by the way they did it without Merrick too!

Congratulations from an oldtime Cabrini person

Its ashame that these Pac school have a discriminating policy if you have no money to get into them and you are good at playing sports.  Time to move out of the PAC if you want to win nationally.  Cabrini has a good LAX program though.

Wolfie, I actually thought you had some good things to say until recently.  You have proved yourself to be different from my initial impressions.  Seriously, going to Div 2 is a step up?  Most academics consider d2 the laughing-stock of schools.  They are basically a trumped-up version of juco's.  There are exceptions, but Lincoln is not one of them academically.  If I was interviewing for a job, I would laugh at the guy with the Lincoln diploma.

Please tell me how PAC schools have a discriminating policy.  Do you want them to go broke?  You must be a socialist.  Oh, and one game (Alvernia v Lincoln) shouldn't prove to anyone that the PAC can't hack it.  I was very surprised by this result and look forward to seeing Alvernia do better next year.

And it is not nonsense to get a bad rap for how that soccer game was cancelled.  That's like ending a relationship over a voicemail - no class.

Get over yourself, Wolfie.  And quit living in the past with Cabrini.

[chairman]

I could be wrong on this, but the league loses 6 and 7 and every member of the league has a chance to pick up two more non-league games against teams of their own choosing. With the improvement of Immaculata and a coaching change coming at Cabrini, I think that the PAC will survive the loss of Wesley and Arcadia. Depending how teams in the league choose to use those extra two games, you could see PAC teams taking on more regionally ranked teams.

WolfPAC, you seem to be remembering days of National prominence that the PAC never really had. There is not likely to be a time when the PAC routinely places three teams in the national rankings for any sport, but I don't that is necessarily anything new. I'm struggling to follow what it is you want the league to do. The schools in the PAC aren't supposed to offer athletic scholarships, and many of them need their athletic programs as a way to recruit students.

If you added the endowments of all the PAC schools, and doubled it, you would not even be in the ball park of Swarthmore. You can't just randomly say, "We are going to let athletes who cannot afford to be here come and we'll give them money we don't have if they can get us to 20 wins." There are two problems with it. First of all, it's against the rules of Division III. Second of all, it is a bad business model to spend more than you bring in.

I know that DIII schools do it, and that many in the old days of the PAC used to do it (and some may still) , but the rules are pretty specific about offering the same level of aid to athletes that you do to the general student body. When you hear about a kid with a 780 SAT getting a "presidential scholarship" for $12,000, it makes you a little queasy. It's always a bit of a coincidence when that kid is 80 inches tall.

So WolfPAC, rather than complaining, come up with a strategic plan for upping the level of the conference without breaking NCAA rules or causing any of the Institutions to go broke. It would be great to say that we should be better than the UAA, the CCIW, or any other league, but I'm sure the Mid-majors want to be better than the ACC as well. The beauty o f college sports is that, in the right situation a team from the PAC can make a run through the National Tournament. That the PAC will never have a team favored to win a National Championship doesn't make it inviable any more than it makes the Missouri Valley Conference or the A-10 a waste of time.

Not to rehash too much here, but wasn't this the same Lincoln team that scored 200 points on a team earlier in the year? Before you start tossing around phrases like "class act" consider what it is you are saying. They've come public with an apology and all, but that's the kind of stuff that classy people never have to apologize for.

[chizwiz]

First off sorry my first post will be so negative.  WolfPac, why dont you start a new forum titled "Cabrini" and post until your heart is content.  Or even better why dont you apply for the Cabrini job, or even better yet take the Presidents job.  You seem to have all the answers.  Be proud that a PAC team had a good season but chose a bad time to have an off game.  Just because Cabrini has had some off years doesn't reflect the rest of the  PAC's success.  Everything you say goes right back to Cabrini or institutional neglect or conference neglect. Get over it, your living in the past. Congrats to Alvernia.

Vern,  Who was the person most responsible for creating the PAC?
Thats what I thought...............

Remember Alvernia is only good in the PAC... exception the year with Damien Hunter even though they got to the final 4  they did not win the PAC because of you know who.

If it is any consolation  congratulations to the Vern for winning the PAC but they only beat Immaculata who lost to you know who twice this year.  No hard feelings buddy.   Just that when a legend is gone the rest of the conference seems to benefit. 

As far as being stuck in the past....there is nothing really exciting in the PAC in the present in basketball unless you are a woman from GMC.
For what its worth Alvernia did win the PAC but thats about it.  I am sure your little Alvernia click is happy in their own world though and you should enjoy the moment of cutting the nets.  I must give your school credit though for having an administration who seems to care about athletics or it appears that way.

Wolfie, your ramblings are getting old.  Additionally, let's work on your grammar and spelling.  It's becoming really obvious that you graduated from Cabrini.

[chizwiz]

Chair, excellent job there with the last post.

Additionally, I don't think the alignment of the conference is going to make a big difference on how the conference does nationally.  If the coaches can recruit and coach, and the players play to their potential, the conference will win more in and out of conference and will gain attention.

[Coach K]

I feel that I have to weigh in on the debate about the competitiveness of the Pennsylvania Athletic Conference.

The one important thing to remember about most of the schools in the PAC is that they are young schools who are going to need to take time and grow their academic reputation, financial endowments, facilities, and overall campus climate. Many of the schools in the MAC, Centennial and CAC are schools with over 100+ years of history, some of which who were once playing against the big boys. Muhlenberg, for example played in bowl games for football, and won at least one NIT title in basketball when that was HUGE!

Using my alma mater (Alvernia) as an example, when I started in 1997, there was no student center, they didn't have 4 of the student residences that they currently have, nor did they have as many sports offerings as they have right now. All those buildings are now there, along with an expanded (and impressive) science wing. Alvernia now has Lacrosse and Ice Hockey, and I believe when I started that their soccer programs were 3 years old. The Reading Police Academy is on campus as well.

It takes some time to build traditions up. Alvernia has had a plan, and they are doing a great job implimenting it. All good things take time to build. Other schools in the conference have managed to build new facilities (Cabrini, Marywood as examples) and are undergoing the same growth. The PAC schools compete in non-league games against schools who I would be willing to bet have larger endowments, thus those schools are going to have a built in advantage with attracting students with the carrot of more $$ for financial aid. Over time, I believe things will level out and the PAC will be at a competitive level with other conferences in the region.

The PAC will grow internally over time. It's going to take time, but the pieces are all in place. Give everything time to grow, and instead of criticizing the conference, enjoy the effort the players put into every contest.

And finally, and I am sure I might be in the minority, I would like to see Alvernia stay in the conference, being a charter member and all, although I do realize that going into the MAC would make sense from a lot of standpoints, not the least of which is the natural rivalry with Albright.

[WolfPAC]

Can't disagree but it always seems like the PAC is the weakest conference according to national public opinion even on the board.

Glad to hear there is hope based on all your posts at least.  I am not criticizing the PAC but rather trying to open eyes.  Seems as though the national powerhouses in those other conferences have consistency while the PAC has Alvernia. 

Marketing a D3 program is tougher due to academic priorities which is  why athletes are not going to be sold as easy.  We need more Chandlers and big guys.

Could the league not get together and devise a marketing/promotion plan for the PAC or D3 in general.   Strategically the first move would be to involve the comissioners of the conferences.  Get everyone on the same page and find a common ground which would stimulate athletic/ academic growth  in all these small private schools.  Realign the conferences strategically to benefit each institution.     Even the reward of winning the PAC deserves more than cutting the nets and a plaque.     Financially I know we are not ina D1 environment but the champions need to be recognized in the the national spotlight on a local basis with more attention and appreciation.    If a school gets to win the PAC and go to the NCAA there needs to be a financial reward from the PAC to the school such as money towards upgrading facilities or grants within compliance and rings issued by the commissioner for the champions.  The PAC cup not a presidents cup!   Sort of like the Stanley cup with tradition.  Sounds stupid but superficially it is a step.  The trophy would be at the school until the next champion.   Since the odds that someone from the PAC will never win the national championship. Something to increase motivation.  Getting the administration fully immersed is the objective to rid institutional neglect.  The Pac needs to establish tradition as a whole not just Alvernia or Cabrini.....

We have to attract more athletes by marketing the PAC. Get the fans involved more as well.  Students and scheduling need to be priorities.  Make the PAC more fan friendly.  Television coverage for playoffs at a local level.  We need to up the stakes now.
The basketball is real but the conference as a whole needs to get real with the commissioner making the first move.

[WolfPAC]

If it feels more serious, it will become more serious.

[WolfPAC]

Maybe more fans could go to a game if there were better facilities available as well.  Parking sucks at Eastern,  Nuemann's gym is a joke.

We need more serious atmospheres.  The Vern LU game was a great atmosphere I understand from Jon.  This is what we need more often in all facilities.  It feels more like a game at Alvernia than EU or Nuemann.  GMC is better as well for being involved while Cabrini is in the middle of the road.
Things have to be addressed to establish baselines for the PAC.

May sound ridiculous to some but can't fault a man for trying to help.  I love the PAC but it seems to be going nowhere at times. 

I know.....money.

[chizwiz]

Wolfie, you are more of a half-empty kind of guy, aren't you?

[MR. PAC]

I FEEL BAD FOR THE VERN BY DRAWING A VERY TALENTED LINCOLN TEAM. THE VERN AFTER GOING 23-4 WAS LOOKING TO POSSIBLY HOST NOT ONLY DO THEY DO NOT HOST A HOME GAME THEY GET TO PLAY LINCOLN ON THE ROAD WHICH WAS A RIDICULOUS DRAW. I ALSO THINK THEY COULD HAVE BEATEN CATHOLIC, MESSIAH AND JOHNS HOPKINS BECAUSE THEY MATCH UP WELL WITH THOSE TEAMS.