MBB: Colonial States Athletic Conference

[Jon]

gamefan,

I'm with Lefty...you made a sexist comment implying the PAC Commissioner, or President as you referred to her as, is spending her time getting her nails and hair done instead of planning for the future of the conference, and that's just not the case. 

You can't seriously expect her to post her plans here or even on the conference website.  There's no point in making public what schools the conference is seeking or even what the plan is for replacing schools that leave.

[chairman]

While I agree that the hair and nails comment was out of line, I am a little surprised that the league has yet to issue a statement of any kind. I know that there is nothing she could have said to keep any of the four schools in, and that there is probably not a good statement to be made, but I know that there is a bit of sales that needs to be done to persuade those schools still in to have confidence that the league will remain viable and will meet their needs as far as delivering a competitive structure and AQ's in all sponsored sports.

I think there is room to be critical of certain steps the conference has taken (and maybe more appropriately not taken), but I think that the moves from Alvernia and Misericordia caught a lot of people (maybe everyone) a little off guard. As I've said before, the next month or so will be very interesting.

[gamefan]

Lets not get defensive, if I was talking about the NBA and said David Stern was out getting a shave I guess that is sexist also? Get a grip will you!

Jon:

As I said before there should have been some communication put on the PAC website to as Chairman said to keep the confidence of the remaining schools that there is a plan! If you do not understand then that is your problem, It is called "Public Relations" I guess they don't teach that at Alvernia! Usually taught in Marketing 101!

[Jon]

I'm don't think the statement needs to be public.  I think it's fine for the commish to communicate personally to the remaining schools that she has a plan for the future of the conference.  Even the chairman admitted there there probably isn't a "good statement to be made."

[WolfPAC]

I don't really care if she makes a public statement or not.  Only hoping for the sake of the athletes/students that there is a plan in place for keeping the conference afloat.

The way it is going it sounds as if people are powerless to do anything in the PAC to maintain its dignity in terms of competition for tournament selection.  With the realignment matters could get worse.

Perhaps the master plan is to keep these institutionally neglect schools with academic missions of the Ivy league together since they will never grow athletically and keep the conference as  a  D3 testing ground to move out of when an institution advances its program to a certain level.

I guess the plan includes the admn, presidents, and the commish since it is silent.  As long as these institutions are content to comply and not grow their program within D3 staying at a certain level they can recruit students with the fact that they are a part of the "D3 NCAA" and attract for enrollment dollars.  The presidents seem to only care about their egos and the schools public perception for marketing anyway.   Look at the facilities alone.   Cabrini's alumni was responsible for their facilities with Dzik not  the president.  She doesn't even know Cabrini never won a state title for God's sake.

GMC/ Alvernia / Arcadia have facilities but 2 have left.  Seems like birds of a feather flock together is the bottom of the barrell for the PAC whether or not it is public knowledge or public statement.

Whew boy!     Cheyney,  Lincoln, the independents may have the right idea if they have an alumni who cares w/o support.     

[Ralph Turner]

I appreciate the debate.  It looks like the Landmark sneezed and the PAC caught pneumonia, to paraphrase the old saying.

With the D3 model being used as an enrollment booster for schools that very heavily dependent on tuition for revenue, having a very poorly performing "product line" such as intercollegiate athletics can impact the bottom line.

WolfPAC, I can "feel your pain".  This looks like it will be a challenge and I see one more MAC slot up for grabs to make 8 & 8.  Am I partially correct that one may get the impression that the Penn AC was a reasonably comfortable 3rd out of 4th among the conferences,

1)  Centennial
2)  MAC Freedom and Centennial
3)  Penn AC
4)  North Eastern AC

to

1) Centennial
2) Landmark
3-4) MAC Freedom or
3-4) MAC Commonwealth with some jockeying concerning academic prestige that may not have been as prominent before
5)  Penn AC with some significant separation appearing for the first time.
6)  NEAC.

Corrections and interpretations of data appreciated.

[gamefan]

Ralph:

You are correct the PAC has taken a hit! The big concern is, "is there a plan"?  In order tp keep the conference together there has to be a plan to bring in new schools to replace the schools that left!  This is an opportunity to align the conference geographically!  A chance to get some new blood into the PAC

Who cares that the schools that left did so, goodbye! Lets get some new schools in to replace them! Schools that want to be here to compete against the remaining PAC schools. Lets build the PAC into a respected conference in DIII sports! Now is the time to make things happen! Time to attack other conferences and grab some good  new schools!

The time for action is now before it is too late!

[chizwiz]

Ralph, I think your statement that there is "significant separation appearing for the first time" is quite correct, sadly.  However, I agree with gamefan that things can be done to right the boat.  The PAC needs to grab between 1 and 3 teams before the start of the 08-09 season, I think.  Grab from the NEAC or NJAC, if possible, or the independents.  Just don't grab from schools that are seriously lacking in academics.  And, no, I don't have any good grabs in mind yet.

[chairman]

Ralph-

The Comfortable #3 idea is accurate, but not on a school by school basis. I beleive the conference thought that as the league grew it would develop into a MAC part C. And in some respects, it really almost did, but not necessarily through PAC growth.

On a school by school basis, there have been schools that were very anxious to change affiliations. Beaver College, being the oldest and probably best endowed of the PAC schools, has been looking to "trade up" for a long time. They wind up moving into a different MAC than they dreamed about, and then take the double hit of seeing their premier sport moving into a league with the 19 time defending champion after a year on the other side (Hyperbole). While Arcadia has some solid sports, they also have a slew of sports that are going to fit nicely in the bottom line of the Commonwealth for quite some time. Their move was not a strategic one for athletics, but rather a long dreamed about move for "academic" affiliation. I can say for certain that Arcadia's president is among those who is not thrilled (understatement) with Scranton's exodus and the incorporation of two more PAC members.

Wesley's choice to leave the PAC is an eight letter decision. FOOTBALL. As the only school in the league with football, they had to join a group of quasi-independents to form a football conference. The tenuous nature of that AQ left Wesley with little or no chance but to leave. It happened that The Landmark sneezed and Wesley and Arcadia got to go at once.

Chiz, I think it will be very unlikely to see an NJAC school move to the PAC for the simple reason that there are no Public institutions in the PAC and there are not many NJAC schools that would see a need to come across the bridge for every road game in the league. Rutger's Camden is close enough to do it, but PSU-Berks makes more sense as a strategic Public Institution. When the NEAC was formed a few years back, it was a conglomeration of independents in queue to join conferences. It looks like one or two of those schools will have the offer to punch their ticket. In reality, the PAC will probably need to offer three spots for 08-09 because the 16th MAC school is, despite what any PAC school tells you, likely to be a PAC school.

[gamefan]

Chair:

Timing is of the essence right now for the PAC! They can use this exodus as a way to intice some local schools to change their conference alliance. This is a time to rebuild the PAC with schools that want to be here.

PSU Berks
PSU Delco
Chestnut Hill was discussed earlier last year when Wesley announced!

Is it time to put out feelers to other area schools to gauge their interest in a newer stronger PAC conference. I think the conference also needs to make it attractive for schools to come not quite sure what the hook can or would be but time to get creative and proactive as I said before.

Any ideas? Just do not understand what the Conference office is doing to stablize? Wish we had some idea of a plan!

In final change is good and is actually healthy most times so lets get some schools to replace and move on without Alvernia, Arcadia, Misericordia and Wesley! Good luck in your new conferences!

[Pat Coleman]

Wesley's choice to leave the PAC is an eight letter decision. FOOTBALL. As the only school in the league with football, they had to join a group of quasi-independents to form a football conference. The tenuous nature of that AQ left Wesley with little or no chance but to leave.

Huh? Wesley remains in the ACFC for football. Joining the CAC does not give them a better football situation. It's the exact same football situation. Wesley's football conference does not have an AQ.

[Ralph Turner]

I may be the most speculative voice on the development of new football conferences that there is on the boards.  Wesley is now one of 3 schools who play football in their conference, (Salisbury, of course,  and Gallaudet renewing in 2007).

With 3 schools playing football at this time, The Capital AC is only one school from having the "core four" football playing members to which you may add at least 3 affiliates to earn an AQ.  There are affiliates willing to drive 500 miles to get into a Pool A conference.  (Current football independents that might seek an affiliation include Brockport St, SUNY-Maritime, provisional SUNY-Morrisville, Frostburg St, Husson, Mt Ida, Becker.)

I wonder if there is not a PennAC president that is looking to add football as a way to entice a bid from the Capital or the MAC.

[gamefan]

Ralph:

There does not seem to be much interest in the PAC to add football my guess it would cost too much for them to field a team! Doesn't make sense because there would be 50 students paying around $30,000 to come to most of the schools but that is what the Presidents are looking at! Look at Cabrini they just spent 1/2 million on new sport turf field for lacrosse and soccer. Think about it 50 X $30,000 = $1.5 million tuition from new football students, not too shabby huh?

Offering football also will entice more two sport athletes to PAC schools and improve other sports also.
Most football players play another sport after the season is over.

The PAC just does not seem ready to embrace football. gain as i have said before does not seem to be any plan for growth unless someone knows something that I have not heard?

[WolfPAC]

Put it this way....

Any PAC school that has the balls to nurture a football program would be the envy of the PAC.

The problem is with Rosemont, EU, Marywood, Immac could you see these schools with football.. get real.  Well, these schools are the PAC and as you can see if a school spends the money football would be worth it but the institution would soon have to move out of the conference to survive!

They would have a tough time playing PAC schools who do not have a football team or wish to get one. 

By the way....  PAC schools have a difficult time enough trying to keep their baseball programs afloat.

More evidence of lack of seriously planning a strategic goal for growth in the next 25 years.

The PAC is a wanna be now.

[WolfPAC]

FOOTBALL in the PAC ??


YOU are dreaming.