MBB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[onefan]

Scotsfan, You are right. It is difficult to gauge a team based upon two games, especially two losses and in reviewing the balance of their season they certainly had some impressive wins against some solid opponents.   Wooster may very well get it done this year, if they continue to play the calibur of basketball they are capable of playing, but tournament basketball is a different animal...."one and done" can bring out the deer in the headlights look at the most inopportune moments... As for John Carroll vs. Wooster....I think Wooster has better personnel, but JC does tend to turn it up come tournament time. Got to go with the talent.. Wooster in a close one...

[division3hoops]

I am going to agree with David.  I do however think that Van Horn and Bidwell will be on Walsh most of the game.  But we can't afford to have Port in foul trouble guarding Mimes.
Also I'd like to say it's nice to see that someone finally has Mimes listed as a center on the roster instead of a guard as he was tagged for the entire year.

[ScotsFan]

If I remember correctly Wooster struggled down low last time the two teams met.  I expect much of the offense to go through Mimes because he will be the most athletic player on the floor.  Wooster's ability to shoot from the outside really helped them last time.  John Carroll will need to play better defense to win.  Their help side D (something Lake Erie does surprisingly well) was awful in the first two tournament games.

Hope it's a good one on Friday, and I hope JCU's streak against the NCAC continues!

The last time these two teams met was in the 'Elite 8' in '04 was it not?  Port was only in his 1st year with the program and he was the only player on Wooster's current roster that saw minutes in that game.  Brandon Mimes and Pete Moran are the only 2 on JCU's roster that saw action in that game as well.  So to draw any analysis from that game wouldn't really be relevant to Friday's meeting.  Just out of curiosity,  I also looked up the box score from that last meeting and it wasn't really JCU's inside game that beat Wooster, it was Mike Grogan going 6-9 from 3-point range.   

As for Friday's game, I looked over the box scores for JCU's last 2 tournament games and it looks as if JCU has a weakness defending guards.  Three out of the top four scorers for LEC were guards (arguably all 4 were guards as Thornton is listed as a G/F).  Likewise, Westminster had 3 in double figures and they were all guards led by Rosatelli's 27.  This looks like it could play big time into Wooster's favor as it's no secret that the strength of this team is the guard play and their perimeter shooting.  Seeing as how JCU allowed Rosatelli to go off for 27, I'm guessing James Cooper for Wooster is licking his chops to see what he can do!

This week is just dragging!  I just wish Friday would get here so we can get on with the Tournament!!!

[David Collinge]

FYI...

I just opened up a new topic in the Multi-Region room concerning this sectional.
http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=5165.new#new

It might make it easier for the followers of all 4 teams to discuss the tournament there; one-stop shopping. 

[john201]

Toph,

10 and 5 OMG WHAT GREAT NUMBERS!!!! I mean the kid fouled out of the LEC game and oh wait they came back and won with his butt firmly on the bench. Wake up, Moran is 26 and still isnt what you think he is. Wooster did smack WC the last 2 years but were not comparing those two teams. JCU has one coming, Wooster is peaking while JCU is having a tough time. A REAL TOUGH time even being in the sweet sixteen. Wooster is just better, better coach, better guards, the big men might be a JCU advantage because of Mimes, but Port and Vandaarvart (spelling?) are very very good players...my final guess 95-79, not even that close. Oh yea you said Hannon has 1300 pts in the PAC....ITS STILL 1300 PTS in three years!!!!! Go Scots!!

[superman57]

ok I promised it earlier here it is...I forget who did it last year but someone did for the Amherst Sectional and it was really helpful   this is a list of good places for food and for the most part I will try to include google map directions...

Ok first off your one stop places for just about everything that you need

Eastview Mall-the best of the malls in rochester...has the normal food court places

Johnny Rockets-$-relativly cheap chain resturant good burgers a nice atmosphere

Champs-$$$1/2-A more expensive sports bar-it is your place to be if you want to watch any of the games on friday or saturday...lots of tvs and decent food

PF Changs never been there before but have heard decent things about it.

Biaggi's Italion-haven't heard anything about it but here is the websiteBiaggis


and here is the eastview mall website

Pittsford plaza is a great place to go do a little shopping, there is a very nice grocery store, and if you've never been to a wegmans it is a whole new experiance and several of the buildings at fisher are named after the wegmans family... Applebee's is in this plaza along with someother resturants that I'm not familiar with...also a good cheap movie theater  Pittsford Plaza website....this is 5 minutes from the fisher campus....

I will post what I know about Fairport hots because that is where I get my plates...they range from around $6-8or9 depending on how hungry you are...they are good, not the best but definatly good and close to fisher...right next to Fairport hots is Baird Road Pub...last time I heard ex-fisher basketball player Raymie Aumen was doing a little bartending...who knows what he is up to now...this is easy to find you take a left out of the main fisher campus and go two-three miles if you get to the mobile station, a friendly's and a 7-11 you've gone to far it is on the corner of Fairport road and baird road at a light....


anyother questions please ask

[Walker Bobby]

I was in Rochester in 2002 when the JCU football team played Brockport State ... and I have nothing but good things to say about the town. There's enough to do as far as a night life goes, and as long as the weather cooperates, its easy enough to get around. Of course, my memories of Rochester are good ones

BTW, John201, you have made three posts on this board. All negative toward John Carroll. Not just negative, downright nasty. Not just nasty, downright ugly. What gives? Did Pete Moran steal your girl? Did Mike Moran cut you from the team? I watched both games, and I give some credit to a team that rallies from double figures down in the second half. Those rallies were not flukish.  That is the way the Streaks have played at times this year, a toughness born of playing in a league where every game is a struggle. Ask ONU, who beat Wooster, how tough the OAC is. Ask BW and Tori Davis, who is sure to be an All-American, how tough the OAC is.

John, I hate to say this, but you come across is a poor loser whose arguments are insipid.

I believe Wooster is probably a better team, and if this were the NBA, they would certainly be favored in a seven-game series. But in a one-shot deal, anything can happen.

Good luck to everyone this weekend. I look forward to some good games to listen to. Maybe I'll have a reason to venture up Saturday.

[Pat Coleman]

Go Scots!!

This is kinda silly too. If JCU advances it makes Lake Erie look better. If JCU loses right away it makes Lake Erie look worse.

[Toph]

john-

I never said Moran put up unbelievable numbers, but who wouldn't take 10 points and 5 assists per night?  Robert Williams from LEC averages a slightly better numbers (.5 assists and 1.1 points higher) against significantly worse competition...is he a stiff too?  I don't think Coach Hunt (a class act) would share your sentiments about the JCU program.

Secondly, don't tell me about Wooster.  I've forgotten more about the Wooster program than you've ever known.  Tom Port happens to be one of my favorite players in Division III. 

I agree, Moore is one hell of a coach.  I don't need to tell you about his career statistics, but don't act like Moran is chopped liver.  Not to belittle Moore's record, but Moran would have a higher winning percentage than 59% (obviously not good enough for you) if he got to play Earlham, Hiram, Kenyon, and Wabash twice a year.  Obviously, those aren't guaranteed wins, and you still have to have your guys ready to play, but even the biggest NCAC fan will tell you that the competitive balance in the OAC is much stronger.  All Moran has done is lead his team to eight NCAA tournament appearances in 15 years (including three of the last four...all three of which they've advanced to at least the Sweet Sixteen)...again, this might not be good enough for you, but as an alumni, I'll take it.

Look, I'm sorry JCU took your ball away, but somebody has to lose.  At least you've gone out with class and dignity.  Oh, and for the record, I think Moran is 27...as if that has anything to do with anything.

Should be fun this weekend, wish I could make the trip.

[john201]

Toph and others,

I do apologize for coming off slightly bitter, I was very upset with the WC loss and I expressed my opinion on the matter about the OAC and JCU and that whole bit. I did not mean to be "downright nasty" in any way shape or form. I have NOTHING and I mean NOTHING personal against anyone from JCU or any kid on any team. I am a PAC fan which is why I feel we got shorted when everyone was saying that JCU escaped, the point I wanted to make was that WC was better than you guys thought. I never once said that Mike Moran is chopped liver as a coach, I just feel that Moore is a better coach overall no matter the competition. I understand what Moran has done with JCU, a lot of coaches would kill for that resume, but Moore to me is a better overall coach. As far as the Wooster program, I haven't followed them long and you are right Toph when you say you have forgotten more about the program that I have, but I do know a lot about the last few years and the Wooster teams and I feel this is the best team they have had in the last 4 years. I will stand by my pick that Wooster will win in a route, and like you Toph I wish I could be there. I think having the game at St John Fisher is a crime and Wooster should play with a chip on their shoulder, they should be hosting. I respect your opinions Toph and I certainly do not want anyone thinking I am trying to belittle anyone.

[Walker Bobby]

Just taking a look at this argument ...

Moore better than Moran.

Moran vs. Moore = Moran 3-1 ... 2-1 on the Wooster home floor.

Arguably, Moore had the better team in three of those four meetings, and arguably Wooster again has the better team in 2007. Yet, the only Wooster win over JCU was back in 2003 and was courtesy of a Rodney Mitchell jumper with three seconds left ... after JCU took a two-point lead into the final minute of play. The other games were JCU wins that seem a little more decisive. Found this as my proof (although it seems like it needs updating ... time is still listed as TBA for the game Friday ... and Mimes is still a guard).

http://www.jcu.edu/studentl/Athletics/varsity/gamenotesmbk.pdf

So John201, while I understand and admire your passion and loyalty toward Westminster, I am not sure I follow your logic on the coaching front. Both have been the dominant forces in their respective leagues, and both have been to a Final Four -- both placing third. I'd see it as pretty even up.

If you are basing it on Moore's overall record, keep in mind, JCU plays BW, Ohio Northern, Otterbein, Capital and Muskingum at least twice a year ... Wooster plays Wittenberg and ... well, Wittenberg two, sometimes three times a year. I wonder how Moran's record would look if he got Oberlin, Denison, Earlham, Hiram (well, he used to get them twice) and Kenyon twice a year. According to the game notes, he's 16-5 against the NCAC. That about a 75% winning percentage.

Just food for thought.

[division3hoops]

I have to say first of all that I think that Moran is a great coach and he has done wonderfully at JCU while he has been there. 
But...to say that Wooster doesn't get competition besides Wittenberg is a lie.  Coach Moore always schedules tough teams out of conference.  This year alone we played Georgetown, Walsh, Cedarville, Southern California Baptist, ONU, Calvin...all top ranked teams in their leagues. 
We've also played BW a couple of times in the past couple of years. 
Obviously Coach Moore knows that our conference is on the weaker side and that is why he schedules these tough teams. 

[Walker Bobby]

division3hoops

not what I said ... note that I said who you face twice. That will add losses quicker when you have quality up and down a conference schedule year in year out. Its not like JCU has cupcakes in its non-conf -- DI Loyola and Cleveland State were two of the Streaks' nine losses. Last year, JCU helped Hope open its new home. So I think that's a wash when it comes to out of league. I'm talking IN conference. Who knows ... from what I have heard from various alums, maybe one day soon JCU will get to find that out as members of the NCAC (new prez is definitely looking at all options)

[division3hoops]

If you are basing it on Moore's overall record

didn't sound like you were talking about conference  there...

[Toph]

If you are basing it on Moore's overall record

didn't sound like you were talking about conference  there...

He's making the same point I did yesterday.  When you play a weak bottom half twice a year, that's going to add a lot of wins faster than a tough out of conference schedule will add losses (because of how good Wooster is...they win more than they lose even with a tough schedule).  This isn't a knock a Moore.  You don't see a guy win as much as he does too often.  My point, and I think Walker Bobby's point, is that if Moran got Oberlin, Kenyon, Hiram (again), Denison, and Earlham twice a year he'd have more career W's. 

By the way, a team in blue and gold beat a team in black (and brown) and gold yesterday at the MAC tourney...a good omen perhaps?