MBB: NEWMAC

[Hugenerd]

Really good interview of Coach Anderson on ESPNU, if anyone missed it last year (from the 2009 season when MIT made their first ever NCAA tourney).

http://mitbasketball.blogspot.com/2010/03/video-flashback-2009-coach-larry.html

[mass_d3fan]

Congratulations to MIT's Noel Hollingsworth for being named 1st-Team ECAC New England ALL—Star team.  Also WPI's Jeff Robinson was named to the 3rd team.

[Hugenerd]

Congrats to Noel Hollingsworth for being named 2nd team All-American and 1st team All-District by the NABC.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nabc/genrel/auto_pdf/2010D3All-America.pdf

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nabc/genrel/auto_pdf/2010D3All-District.pdf

[Hugenerd]

I was surprised to see today that McClary from Olivet was picked for honorable mention All-American over Noel Hollingsworth.  Both players put up similar numbers this year, Hollingsworth putting up slightly more points and shooting a better percentage from the field, while McClary had a couple more rebounds per game. 

	Hollingsworth	McClary
Points	20.4	19.8
Rebounds	9.0	11.0
Blocks	1.44	1.63
Assists	1.7	1.2
FG%	56.0%	51.6%
3FG%	42.5	0

However, Hollingsworth was a leader on a team that went 22-5 and made it to the NCAAs while McClary was on a 14-13 Olivet team.

It is a disappointment to not see Hollingsworth on the list, because I feel he really deserved to be there.  The NABC, which I assume is voted on by the NABC coaches, had Hollingsworth as the second best player in the region behind Schultz, while 3 players from the NE made it on the list over Hollingsworth on this site's list.  Tough to imagine that he isnt one of the 15 best forwards or centers in D3.

[Pat Coleman]

I see record is important to you. What would Olivet have been without McClary?

[Hugenerd]

I see record is important to you. What would Olivet have been without McClary?

What would MIT have been without Hollingsworth?  Did his 20+ ppg (on a very high FG%)and 9 rpg not contribute to more wins?

I also know record is important to you.  Does Aaron Thompson make 3rd-Team with just his numbers from this year if he isnt on WashU? (I am not saying he isnt deserving, but there are a lot of guys who scored 17 ppg this year, he was #118 in the country in scoring through last week, so there is obviously something more)  3 years ago, Bartolotta averaged 21.2 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.9 spg, and 1 bpg, but didnt make AA because he was on a ~.500 team (or was that the year there was a nomination issue?).

[BBallers]

I see record is important to you. What would Olivet have been without McClary?

What would MIT have been without Hollingsworth?  Did his 20+ ppg (on a very high FG%)and 9 rpg not contribute to more wins?

I also know record is important to you.  Does Aaron Thompson make 3rd-Team with just his numbers from this year if he isnt on WashU (I am not saying he isnt deserving, but there are a lot of guys who scored 17 ppg this year, so there is obviously something more)?  3 years ago, Bartolotta averaged 21.2 ppg, 8.7 rpg, and 4.5 apg, 1.9 spg, and 1 bpg, but didnt make AA because he was on a ~.500 team (or was that the year there was a nomination issue?).

I agree that there appears to be some inconsistencies in ascertaining nominees.  The question could also be asked as to where would MIT have been without Bartolotta that year.  Bartolotta also made his other teammates better by creating open shots.

I can see statistically where it would be a close call, but I wish the selections were more consistent on a year to year basis.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've always respected that D3hoops makes its selections on more than numbers.  I think in light of how difficult it is for many of us to see the best players play, either in person or on video, it's admirable that Pat works so hard to make it happen.  I don't have the same luxury, but when I have been able to compare players in person, I've always understood why the decisions were made.

I think Hollingsworth is an exceptional player, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this call simply because of experience.  I doubt I'll ever have the chance to see McClary play.

[Hugenerd]

I've always respected that D3hoops makes its selections on more than numbers.  I think in light of how difficult it is for many of us to see the best players play, either in person or on video, it's admirable that Pat works so hard to make it happen.  I don't have the same luxury, but when I have been able to compare players in person, I've always understood why the decisions were made.

I think Hollingsworth is an exceptional player, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this call simply because of experience.  I doubt I'll ever have the chance to see McClary play.

So you are telling me that Pat saw Hollingsworth play?  I would be surprised if that were true.

[CCC Talk]

Pat and company do an excellent job giving coverage to an area of the sports world that doesn't get much.

I'll take the D3 hoops people's word for it as they are looking at a nationwide picture instead of through the narrow view of one school and one team. Obviously (as evidenced by Hugenerd's 1000 plus posts) we're talking about a very passionate fan of a particular program- which is to be commended- however the incessant posting about first Bartolotta who I think got a lot of press simply because he was from MIT and who took a TON of shots (bad, good and otherwise) and now about Hollingsworth shows clearly where your loyalties lay and to complain about one kid over another on a nationwide team when you're so clearly a fan of a particular team seems silly and not likely to accomplish much.

[Hugenerd]

Seriously?  What are these boards for other than to support the teams we back and to discuss, or in some cases argue, about basketball issues.

Secondly, Only about 1/3 of my posts have been on the northeast region boards (you can check my stats) and that includes all of the northeast boards (NESCAC, general topics, etc.) so my guess is that more like 1/4 of my posts are on the NEWMAC board (I post much more heavily on the Multi-regional boards).

Third, to go along with the two points above, I watch as much d3 basketball as I can, across the country.  I played in the UAA, I am very familiar with those teams.  I may not be able to get out of the house much to watch games in person, but I watch a lot of games online and have seen many teams play from each region.  I am not looking through as small a hole as it may appear from my posts on this board.  The reason I post so often on the NEWMAC board is to try to bring attention to what MIT is doing, because there are very few NEWMAC posters and none that follow the schools as closely as some of the other top programs' and conferences' fans across the country.  I bet if you look at the number of posts by the regular posters for the CCIW, MIAA, NESCAC, WIAC, etc., and compare them to mine on the NEWMAC board, I would have fewer, but because there are no otehr regular posters, it gives the impression that I post some obscene amount and I am fanatical about the team.  You can believe that if you want, I am obviously a supporter of the team, but my true intent is to get the program at MIT the same coverage and attention other programs get inherently, either due to their geographical location or because of their history and following.

Fourth, I was only using McClary as a point of comparison, not to necessarily say that McClary shouldnt be on the team.  My argument was, and still is, that if you compare those two players, I dont see a whole ton of difference in the numbers, McClary gets a couple more boards, Hollingsworth scores slighly more and shoots better from the field.  The big difference is their team's records, and that usually counts for something (if not a lot, as evidenced by some other selections).  While on that subject, you should look at the kid from Green Mountain's numbers, he led the nation in scoring (25ppg) and averaged over 12 boards and 1.5 blocks per game.  He isnt' an All-American, probably because his team was 9-17.

Fifth, I was not attacking Pat or d3hoops.  In my original post I said I was "surprised" and "disappointed", no where did I throw any stones.  I obviously realize the job everyone at d3hoops does and the time they put into covering DIII basketabll.  However, that doesnt mean every time they say anything it should be taken as the Truth.  There was a huge argument about POY last year, that was fine, why isnt this?

Sixth, CCC Talk, do a little homework next time before making a post attacking me.  Just because this is the only board you see me post on does not make it the only board I post on.  Your attempt to dismiss my argument based on your own subjective conceptions is duely noted, but based on the content of your posts I would recommend you watch a whole lot more about DIII basketball, in general, before you have an intelligent conversation about it.  Also, what is the point of trying to disparage Bartolotta at this point?  To go along with the do your homework theme, he may have taken a lot of shots, but he shot over 50% from the field...for his career, including over 41% from 3 for his career and 84% from the FT line.  I am sure any coach in the country would tell him to take any shot he wanted if he kept shooting at those percentages.

Finally, although I may post a lot about MIT, I rarely make subjective claims with no support backing them.  I always provide data, either in the form of stats or other awards (in this case Hollingsworth's stats from this year and the fact that he was NABC second-team All-Americnan).  I suggest you do the same.

[Mr. Ypsi]

While he hardly needs my help, I'll offer it to Hugenerd anyway!

While he 'champions' MIT on the Posters' Poll board (and elsewhere), he actually only infrequently was the high outlier for them.  His knowledge of the entire d3 spectrum seems quite good.  (Of course, although I am a CCIW partisan, I am also a Michigander - your choice of McClary for comparison was most unfortunate!   Without him, Olivet would be hard-pressed to win TWO games.)  (Oh, and much as I respect Bartolotta, I still say Kent Raymond was National POY! )

OK, Hugenerd, I came to your defense (well, sort of!) - where's that final PP ballot?

[Hugenerd]

While he hardly needs my help, I'll offer it to Hugenerd anyway!

While he 'champions' MIT on the Posters' Poll board (and elsewhere), he actually only infrequently was the high outlier for them.  His knowledge of the entire d3 spectrum seems quite good.  (Of course, although I am a CCIW partisan, I am also a Michigander - your choice of McClary for comparison was most unfortunate!  Without him, Olivet would be hard-pressed to win TWO games.)  (Oh, and much as I respect Bartolotta, I still say Kent Raymond was National POY! )

OK, Hugenerd, I came to your defense (well, sort of!) - where's that final PP ballot?

OK, I guess after that I owe you one.  

[Pat Coleman]

I see record is important to you. What would Olivet have been without McClary?

What would MIT have been without Hollingsworth?  Did his 20+ ppg (on a very high FG%)and 9 rpg not contribute to more wins?

I also know record is important to you.  Does Aaron Thompson make 3rd-Team with just his numbers from this year if he isnt on WashU? (I am not saying he isnt deserving, but there are a lot of guys who scored 17 ppg this year, he was #118 in the country in scoring through last week, so there is obviously something more)  3 years ago, Bartolotta averaged 21.2 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.9 spg, and 1 bpg, but didnt make AA because he was on a ~.500 team (or was that the year there was a nomination issue?).

MIT and Olivet certainly won the same number of NCAA Tournament games.

I think you probably know that Thompson healthy was a lot better than Thompson playing with mono.

[Hugenerd]

I see record is important to you. What would Olivet have been without McClary?

What would MIT have been without Hollingsworth?  Did his 20+ ppg (on a very high FG%)and 9 rpg not contribute to more wins?

I also know record is important to you.  Does Aaron Thompson make 3rd-Team with just his numbers from this year if he isnt on WashU? (I am not saying he isnt deserving, but there are a lot of guys who scored 17 ppg this year, he was #118 in the country in scoring through last week, so there is obviously something more)  3 years ago, Bartolotta averaged 21.2 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.9 spg, and 1 bpg, but didnt make AA because he was on a ~.500 team (or was that the year there was a nomination issue?).

MIT and Olivet certainly won the same number of NCAA Tournament games.

I think you probably know that Thompson healthy was a lot better than Thompson playing with mono.

Agreed, but that again is a very subjective criteria and you are going on what he has done in past years, not this year.  It also gives the advantage to more visible programs when selections are made this way.  For example, Jeremy Shannon, who was a preseason all-american this year, was hurt for much of the season, but still played in 24 games and put up pretty good numbers for a point guard (15.3 ppg, 7.7 rpg, and 5.2 apg), yet no one is making any excuses for him. (WashU only won one more tourney game than Emerson). This is just an example, but you know what I mean in general. 

MIT did lose in the first round of the NCAA tourney, so if you are going to hold that against Hollingsworth, so be it.  However, it is not as if they were blown out in the first round (like Cabrini vs. RMC) and they were a FT or rebound away from winning their first round game, but unfortunately could not get it done. Also, the NEWMAC is a better conference than people give credit to.  Clark, who finished 4-8 in conference, and tied for second to last, beat a hosting (20-5) Albright team, and then played RMC tough for 40 minutes despite losing their best scorer and senior leader 30 seconds into the game (the game was tied with 9 minutes to play).