MBB: NEWMAC

[Hugenerd]

Hassan Robinson and Donta Johnson from Springfield in the 1990's were REALLY tough, but I am not sure if Springfield was in NEWMAC by then (they transititioned in the mid 1990's from D-II to D-III but I am not sure of the exact timeline).  I am pretty sure Robinson played when Springfield was still D-II, otherwise he would easily be the best player (and probably best overall athlete, a baseball superstar as well) in NEWMAC history.  But Johnson was really tough too.  I'd put him in over Parker or Yvon.

There was no NEWMAC until 1999.  So there is only a 12 year history to the conference.

[WPI89]

HN

Your list might work if you interpret the question as what is the best starting five you could put out there for 1 game.  But if it is about achievements - stats, awards, wins (really any criteria) - it would almost invalidate your list to include Hollingsworth.  Granted I have seen him play a grand total of once in person and a couple of times on video..........but using your own arguments about awards (from your Jimmy B diatribe)  - you would start the all time team with Jimmy and Cain and then build from there.  Heck - you would have to put Matt Carr (which I wouldn't) on the team before Hollingsworth at this point.

Hoops soon fellas - then we can stop speculating and start breaking down games.

[NEWMACJACK]

NEWMAC is historically a guard heavy league, so most of these players are guards.

Jimmy Bartolotta - MIT
Michael Parker - Springfield
Sean Fleming - Clark
Derek Yvon - Springfield
Noel Hollingsworth - MIT

I know that many people would have Ryan Cain (WPI) on there, he would probably be my 6th or 7th man based on the awards he won.  His numbers were never hugely impressive, in my opinion, and he wasnt a guy who would really take over a game, but he was solid, but up good numbers, and led his team to some great seasons.  I added one true big man for posterity (Hollingsworth).  I know its pretty early in his career (he only played one full season) to put him on, but in terms of his talent and impact, he will be there when its all said and done.

Very good list to start the discussion....I would disagree with Hollingsworth being on there as he has only played 20 games in NEWMAC play....while the others are 4 year players...In my opinion the best player would  be Bartalotta and the Sean Fleming would be the best player on the best NEWMAC teams...(Clark 2001 and 2002)  Cain was very good and deserves to be on the list regardless of position...he was better and led his team further than Yvon....no knock on Derek as he was phenomenal but I am just looking for the top 5.....i respect your opinion and think your list is very good ...i just have a different view....other names to throw out there would be Babson, Hines, Colleli.  Coast Guard, Sowers, Prebeck, C Johnson. Clark U, K. Smith, Walker, McNamara, Ginnity, Alexander, Dutille. Wheaton, Coppolla, Vega, Kowski, the big guy who transferred from  Bentley, Springfield, Alexander, Parker, Gleason, MIT, IDK besides JB although Coach Anderson may be the best coach???  WPI, Coleman,

Any thoughts...and please excuse me if i forgot anyone worthy.....

[Hugenerd]

HN

Your list might work if you interpret the question as what is the best starting five you could put out there for 1 game.  But if it is about achievements - stats, awards, wins (really any criteria) - it would almost invalidate your list to include Hollingsworth.  Granted I have seen him play a grand total of once in person and a couple of times on video..........but using your own arguments about awards (from your Jimmy B diatribe)  - you would start the all time team with Jimmy and Cain and then build from there.  Heck - you would have to put Matt Carr (which I wouldn't) on the team before Hollingsworth at this point.

Hoops soon fellas - then we can stop speculating and start breaking down games.

I would disagree with your statement about Carr.  Based on your metric (number of awards) Hollinsworth was POY his one full year in the NEWMAC, and also has more national recognition.  I was not using awards, however, in my selections.

I see you missed the point of my "diatribe."  It was not about who had more awards or the better career.  It was about who had a better 2008-2009 season, and therefore deserved all those awards (specifically, the National POY for that year).  I never stated the inverse, which would be saying Bartolotta is better because he won all those awards.  I was saying he was more impressive that season, which resulted in many knowledgeable people picking him for those awards.  Same thing goes for Hollingsworth in this case.  He is better than any big man in my memory in the NEWMAC, which is why I would select him for this team.  I was not using other awards as a metric for my top 5. 

If I was going with 5 guards/wings, then Cain would get more consideration based on his career, but again, for me personally, he never blew me away with his court presence (he wasn't a guy you really felt you HAD to double and I was on a coaching staff against him twice, so I have some insight there.  Then again, that may be why I am biased, I only saw him play his last two years, and in those 5 games against MIT he didnt even average double-figures).  He definitively put up strong numbers for his career, though, and his most impressive stat is really WPI's record over that time (they won at least 20 games each year, and he lost only a total of 20 games for his career).  I am not trying to put down his career and he is definitely a deserving candidate, but my opinion is solely based on my personal observation.

[WPI89]

I will make sure I check with you next time before I can understand when it is proper to use awards as part of the discussion and when it is not.

Maybe dumb it down for us WPI grads and I might have a chance.  What's a diatribe anyway? 

Cain was the best player on the best team - that is really all that matters.

Well WPI gets going next week - have not checked when MIT plays there first cupcake but it will be fun to have games to talk about.  As I mentioned to AM63 - I fear WPI going 0-2 out of the gate - hope I am wrong.

[JustAFan]

WPI's roster is listed and it does not include 2 players who contributed off the bench last year--freshman guard David White and junior forward Jerome Stewart.  Did White transfer? Hopefully Stewart is still at WPI finishing up his senior year and focusing on life after basketball.  I always admired his perseverance.  The past 2 seasons he seemed to get into Coach Bartley's doghouse early in the season and rarely played until late January each year, when he was able to gradually work his way back into a 10-15 minute per game rotation in February and in the playoffs. 

On the positive side, WPI has added 6-7 soph Chad LaBove, a transfer from Wesleyan, who returns to the area where he played high school ball at St. John's HS in Shrewsbury.  His older brother plays for Dartmouth.

[Hugenerd]

I will make sure I check with you next time before I can understand when it is proper to use awards as part of the discussion and when it is not.

Maybe dumb it down for us WPI grads and I might have a chance.  What's a diatribe anyway? 

Cain was the best player on the best team - that is really all that matters.

Well WPI gets going next week - have not checked when MIT plays there first cupcake but it will be fun to have games to talk about.  As I mentioned to AM63 - I fear WPI going 0-2 out of the gate - hope I am wrong.

MIT plays Harvard on Friday, so you'll have to save the cupcake talk for next week.

As for Cain, Marois and Kirkland always impressed me more in the games I saw.  Maybe he just didnt play that well in those matchups, but I can only go by what I saw in person and on tape. I defer to stats when I have to, but when I have seen those guys play in person, I trust those observations more.  Cain had a great career, but if I had to pick my 5 best players in the NEWMAC of all time, he wouldnt make it.  If I was choosing the 5 most decorated careers (in terms of awards), he would.  That just goes to show you how important team success is in winning these awards, but you have to acknowledge the teams he was on were loaded.

[WPI89]

This year's MIT team actually has some similarities to the Cain WPI teams?  Hope they are ready and represent against Harvard - could be really interesting if they play well.

[Hugenerd]

I agree MIT has more depth, but Harvard has a ton of talent and athleticism.  MIT will have to shoot lights out to be close, and then it still may be tough.  Harvard is getting votes in the DI AP Poll.

[WPI89]

Yeah - I went and looked up Harvard after your post - they are the pre-season pick to win the Ivy for the first time ever!

You never know but at this point it would likely take a real strong year for an MIT (or WPI) and a down year for Harvard to actually win the game.

Always a fun game though - we played Harvard to a first half tie in 1986 or 87 - then their size just wore us down and it wasn't close in the end.

[amh63]

What guys, you are more interested in a BB game between MIT and Harvard?  The game to watch on Friday is the one on an aircraft carrier with our President on board...between the pre-season No. 1 UNC and somebody else.
Will the MIT vs Harvard game be on-line or telecasted?  I do have a connection with MIT and my older brother is a Harvard grad.  Basically, my school's conference just started practice on Nov. 1, and have not yet posted a roster.

[Hugenerd]

Livestats and Video links here:

http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/Schedule

[NEWMACJACK]

With all due respect to Cain and WPI I do not have him in my top 10.  If you are talking about best players on the best teams then you would have to judge on who made it the farthest in the NCAA's.  That would be CGA Elite Eight and Clark's 2 Elite Eights.  CGA had A. Sowers, Prebeck, and the Johnsons.  One or 2 of them would have to be in the top 10.  Both Clark Elite Eight teams would have to have 2-3 top 10ers.  Fleming, Walker, Mcnamara.  Thats 5 right there.  This is fun....

Top 5 NEWMAC Teams
1.2000-2001 Clark U.
2. 2001-2002 Clark U.
3. 2007-2008 CGA
4. 2002-2003 Babson
5. 2005-2005 WPI, 1999-2000 Springfield

There has to be arguments to this list....

[WPI89]

Jack

I do not have the breadth of knowledge to really have an educated reply.  However, I will say that winning 1,2, or maybe even 3 games in the tourney can have just as much to do with match-ups as with how good you really are on a national level.  For the most part, I think Bartley squeezed everything out of most of the 20+ win WPI teams the last 10 years and they had relatively little chance of winning more than 1-2 games int he big dance.  That being said - I thought the 2006-7 team with Cain, Coleman, Kirkland that had a terrible loss to Stevens in the first round, was every bit as good as the 05' WPI team.

Amherst - the "carrier game" is a much watch tonight.

And on 11/11/11 - thanks VERY much to any veterans that may be scanning the boards today!

[mass_d3fan]

opening night!  Here is how the NEWMAC teams did.

MIT escapes with a win at Curry, 71-66

Hollingsworth - 23 pts, 10 boards
Tashman - 14 pts, 10 boards
Karracker - 18 points 6-11 from 3pt land


Springfield beats Castleton St in a game with zero defense, 132 to 112.

13 players score in double digits and the teams combined for 182 field goal attempts.

Rossi - 23 pts, 8 rebs
Burke - 22 pts, 9 rebs
Berthiaume - 21 pts, 12 assts
Sienkiewicz - 17 pts
Adams - 17pts, 8 rebs
Rote - 14 pts 8 rebs
Christner - 12 pts, 6 rebs

Also, Senior center Ryan Coburn did not play.  Not sure if he is injured or possibly sick.


Wheaton defeats Salve regina, 84-65

Degnan - 27pts, 6 rebs
Weeks - 13pts
Daily - 9 rebs


Babson opens with a victory over Gordon, 59-38

McDermott - 10pts
Braithwaite - 9pts
Foley - 7pts, 8rebs


Coast Guard loses to Albertus Magnus, 86 to 75

David Anderson - 15 pts, 8 rebs
Knudsen - 11pts, 8 rebs
Marshall - 14pts, 5 rebs
Sowers - 13pts, 6 assts
weems - 11pts


Clark defeated by RIc, 70-52

Vayda - 18pts, 6 rebs
Billington - 10pts, 5 assts


WPI opens with Husson tomorrow.