MBB: NEWMAC

[rlk]

...................and the winner for the longest posts ever - basically saying the same thing over and over is....the NEWMAC board!  Hooray..................

Nice pics though rlk - I "applauded" you.

We're engineers in addition to being Engineers.  We can discuss anything to death.

(although you should see the Grinnell discussion on the Midwest board!)

[NEWMACJACK]

I think Springfield and WPI are better than MIT right now.  Being # 1 in the nation is great for the league and MIT but I wanted to put my opinion in there.

[WPI89]

I think Springfield and WPI are better than MIT right now.  Being # 1 in the nation is great for the league and MIT but I wanted to put my opinion in there.

Bold NEWJACK - clearly wouldn't mind -  but in some distorted way - I hope you are wrong.  We pretty much know what WPI is - BEST case (emphasis on best case) is a first round win and maybe a second round shocker (not that I wouldn't take that in a second - I was hoping for a .500 season 3 weeks ago), but I really wish MIT was healthy enough to be "win it all " good!  That would be fun.

[Hugenerd]

The NYTimes article describes the injuries in more detail:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sports/ncaabasketball/mit-enters-basketball-season-ranked-no-1-in-division-iii.html

I just can't imagine a guy being able to come back within the same year from TWO microfracture surgeries, so I'd imagine Karraker playing this year is a long shot.  A fractured foot repair is no picnic either, normally I'd say there is no way that someone could contribute in the same year as that type of surgery, but based on what Hugenerd is saying, sounds like Hollingsworth is used to playing through pain and that he may be effective even though limited to some degree.  If he can approximate the production he gave last year when he returns, suddenly MIT is a very different team.  As of now, relying way too much on two guys to produce, but I don't see many teams on their schedule who will provide a lot of competition, so if they can go, say, 2-1 vs. RIC and the two WPI games, and get Hollingsworth back for the post-season, they could easily have their full squad together and be well-positioned with a top seed.  New England just seems to be very, very top heavy this year, based on early results, so I expect that Albertus Magnus, Williams, Midd, Amherst and MIT will all post gaudy win-loss records.  I'm not sure who is less inclined to schedule the other (and maybe none of them want to play each other), but it would be nice if, one of these years, MIT played one or more of the top three from NESCAC. 

Still, I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns.

I think everyone should assume that neither Hollingsworth nor Karraker will play this season.  I have truly enjoyed watching Hollingsworth play for MIT....smart, tough, very unorthodox in some ways, great hands and deft touch...truly a very unique D3 big guy who proved every time out that it's not necessarily who is "athletic' it's who knows how to play.   Having said that if they can only get one of them back, I'd prefer Karraker.  One of the things that MIT does this year ( and the reason, I think that Kates is scoring 20+ per game) is keeping the middle more open...more lanes for Kates and more opportunities for him to slash.  They won't have that with Noel in there....he clogs the middle, he's effective yes, but lessens the dynamism of Kates becuase if he is in there he has to have the ball...otherwise not much purpose...hence Kates has to defer which is an advantage to the opposition.
What they are missing on this year's team so far is a knock down shooter who will help spread the floor even more....that's where Karraker comes in.  Jimmy Burke is a fine player and very valuable....but contrary to what some have stated he is NOT adept at creating his own show and at 5'8" does not present the problems that the 6'5"  Karraker, also a catch and shoot guy, does.  Until one of their guys,,,maybe Pedley, maybe Johnson, mature enough to spread out and knock it down consistently MIT has somewhat of a lower ceiling without Karraker....and this would be true with or without the reappearance of Hollingsworth.  Truly, who would you rather be center your offense around?  Mitch or Noel?  It's a no brainer IMHO

I couldnt disagree with you more, on essentially every point you make.

1) With regard to Jimmy Burke, how do you support the claim that he cannot and does not create his own shots?  He is leading the team in free throws made so far this season (3 made per game) and is second in attempts (and the player leading the team in FTAs, Tashman, has played about 10 more minutes per game and is in the post all the time).  Do you think he is drawing fouls just catch and shooting?  Just as a comparison, Karraker averaged about half a free throw made and attempted per game last year.  In fact, Burke has already shot nearly as many FTs in 5 games as Karraker did in 31 games last year (17 vs. 19).  Go watch some video of Burke as a freshman, he had the ball in his hands in crunch time a whole lot, especially in the two WPI games (ask Coach Bartley if he thinks Burke can make his own shot).  In the game at MIT that year, Coach Anderson called isolations for Burke 3 times in a row, with no screen, down the stretch and Burke converted all 3.  I know that was 3 years ago, but he is doing similar things now (I just dont have any video from this season).  Karraker may be taller, which may help him get his shot off more easily, but 6'4" vs. 5'10" doesn't mean as much 23 feet from the hoop as it does under it.

2) The notion that you would rather have Karraker on the court instead of Hollingsworth is absolutely crazy.  Again, Karraker is great, he is a wonderful shooter when someone sets him up and he is open, but I dont remember many times when you could dump the ball down to Karraker and get an easy bucket.  Obviously Kates is going to score more if Hollingsworth is out, he is going to get more shots and be the main option on offense with him out.  You're also probably right about the driving lanes, but for me, do you really want your point guard having to score 25 points a night?  He has to work awful hard to run the offense, guard the other teams point, and now your asking him to lead the team in scoring also?  Might as well get him a mop and bucket and ask him to clean up the court after the game also.  With Hollingsworth, you get at least 15-20 offensive posessions a night where Kates doesnt have to do anything.  Maybe swing the ball around a few times, run the offense for 20 seconds, then dump it into Hollingsworth and let him make his own shot.  If he gets doubled, he kicks it out and someone else gets an open shot.  For Karraker to be effective, Kates still has to work his butt off to get him the ball in an open position.  Kates 'deferring' to Hollingsworth is no advantage to the opposition, its one more player the other team has to double...I have never seen Karraker doubled.  When Hollingsworth gets doubled, its more easy shots for perimeter shooters, and MIT is shooting 39% as a team from 3 so far this season.  Do you honestly believe that MIT makes the Final 4 last year without any contribution from Hollingsworth?  They may not make it out of the first round (they beat Skidmore by 7, Hollingsworth had 17...in the next round, they beat Farmingdale by 20, Hollingsworth had 37 and 12).

3) I would much rather center my offense around a dominant inside scorer.  The inside scorer gets easier shots, in addition to all the help he draws which opens up outside shots.  To have your scoring offense centered around your point guard puts a lot on the shoulders of your point guard.  I think Kates is up for that challenge, but he already handles the ball coming up the court essentially every play.  Now he has to slash and create throughout the game also? if you do that the whole season you are going to wear down your point guard.  Especially once Paul Dawson gets back, I think you are going to see Kates get more run at the off guard position, with either Dawson, Burke, or maybe even Frankel playing the point, just so he is more fresh at the end of games.  With Hollingsworth in there, you get a proven guy who is going to create easy shots for himself, and give everyone else a break. For me, its really a no brainer in the opposite direction, but you are more than entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to disagree with it.  And I truly would be surprised if we didn't see Hollingsworth at all this season (and I honestly don't know anything about his injury, more than anyone else on this board, I just know Noel from past seasons and I think he will do anything he can to get on the court).

Well....glad to see some discussion generated on this.  Do I get any karma for that?  HN...geesh...calm down.  Are you angling for one of those talking heads point-counter point jobs?  You know...whomever volumizes wins.
PS  I've seen every game that JB. NH etc has played for MIT

I type fast and at 1 am its mainly stream of thought.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Hugenerd is practically Hemingway compared with Gregory Sager when he gets on a roll!

[mass_d3fan]

I think Springfield and WPI are better than MIT right now.  Being # 1 in the nation is great for the league and MIT but I wanted to put my opinion in there.

Bold NEWJACK - clearly wouldn't mind -  but in some distorted way - I hope you are wrong.  We pretty much know what WPI is - BEST case (emphasis on best case) is a first round win and maybe a second round shocker (not that I wouldn't take that in a second - I was hoping for a .500 season 3 weeks ago), but I really wish MIT was healthy enough to be "win it all " good!  That would be fun.

Not so sure that either WPI or Springfield is better than MIT if they were playing head-to-head today. 

WPI right now is relying on Coppola to do the majority of the scoring if the game is in doubt.  So far when he has been off, Longwell has stepped up and others have contributed here & there.  What they are missing is the inside game to go with the great guard play they are getting.  Do get me wrong 5-0 is great, but Keene played a horrible game against them and I thought Becker would give them a run, but I did not realize that Jerome Cohen is not playing there this year.  He was a big body (6'8", 270 or so) that played very well against the Engineers last year.

MIT still has the two-prong attack with Tashman inside.  Remember, He has already anchored a team that won the conference tournament with out Hollingsworth.  While I agree that Noel brings a lot of great qualities to the table, I firmly believe that Tashman is the real glue inside for MIT.  He is more physical, defends better and is a much better rebounder.

I would not look past Clark when conference play kicks in.  They have a lot of expereinced talent coming back Vayda looks like he is back to his normal self and DJ Bailey is playing very well on the inside.

I only saw the last 10 minutes of the Keene/Springfield game on the web, but it was yet again another badly coached and played game by the Owls.  I know that they always seem to start slow, but the quality of their play in tohse two games was just plain bad.  Springfield gave WPI fits last year and it will be interesting to see how they match up this year.  They are much like WPI in that they are depending heavily on Alex B. to carry the load.

I would also not count Babson out of the mix.  They are developing a new game down their based around Wickey. So even with the graduation of Carr &  Coburn and the apparent lack of Hollingsworth, there is still a lot of good big man play going on in the conference.

As far as MIT & the #1 ranking goes....The real question is if the voters knew MIT would be missing Hollingsworth & Karraker, would they have put them at #1?  IMO -No.  They are still obviously a very good club, but just as obviously they are not the best team in the country as it stands today.  Their schedule will give them the chance to stay #1 for a while unless the voters move someone else up.
HN, where is a link to the conversation that Coach Anderson had where he talked about MIT's scheduling?  Id love to listen to it cause its a shame with them having the talent they have had over the past 3 years that we did nto get to see them play a Williams, Middlebury or Amherst.  It would have made for some great games.

Good Luck to all the NEWMAC teams as non-conference play continues.

[Hugenerd]

Great game for RIC...they did what they had to do and shot real well from deep.  Given the final score, which was terrible for any MIT supporter, it wasnt all bad.  They only gave up 68 points, and that was with RIC shooting 10-22 from 3.  MIT was just horrible, really horrible, on offense.  Everyone not named Mitch, shot a combined 3-26...thats 11.5%...and they went a combined 0-9 from deep, for a whopping total of 17 points.  Kates played alright, he scored 27, made 4 threes, but its tough doing it all on your own.  The lack of scoring depth was evident, especially the lack of interior scoring. They just had no balance. Luckily, its only one game, and they will have plenty of opportunities to put this game behind them.  I would fully expect their ranking to fall into the teens and it deserves to fall that much, maybe more. Its still early, though, and they will have plenty of time to improve.  Hopefully Dawson and Levene will be back soon (I think they really missed both of them tonight, Levene is their most experienced 3/4 and Dawson would have helped match RICs athleticism).  I think the result will relp refocuse the team and luckily the have a chance to get back on track on Saturday.

[amh63]

Posted my comments of the MIT vs. RIC game tonight on the Little East board.  What makes this loss to RIC so surprising is that RIC won its last two home games by a total of 5 points.....and won its 4 previous games by a TOTAL of 16 points.  RIC has historically been a fine program and is well coached.  They are a quick team and played great defense tonight....even against Kates.....accordingly to Coach Walsh who was surprised that Kates scored 27 points.  As I posted on the LEC board.....IMO, MIT at this point of the season is a two man offensive team and one player did not shoot well tonight.  RIC made most of their outside shots by players wide open.

[rlk]

Big bounceback by MIT, defeating Newbury 91-76.  Tashman led a nicely balanced attack with 22 points (and 14 rebounds, and 7 assists!), and Matt Redfield and Andrew Acker had 13 each inside to go with Jimmy Burke's 16 and Mitch Kates's 15.  Reinier Strobos also played well, although without a big line to show for it.

Paul Dawson's also back.  As usual, his line doesn't reflect his value on D and his ball handling.  He only had 2 points, but they were on a beautiful back door layup.  Have to do something about those fouls, though.

The real difference was in the intensity and balance.  Newbury wasn't getting uncontested looks anywhere, and MIT was fighting for every board and second chance.  The real story of the game: MIT won in the paint 40-24, 42-27 on the boards (14-8 O), 19-9 second chance, 34-11 from the bench, and 5-2 men in double figures.  If the Cardinal and Grey can post numbers like those consistently, we'll be fine.

Mitch played the whole game, but Paul and sometimes Jimmy brought the ball up quite a bit, giving him some rest.  He had his usual highlight moments, but the game wasn't going through him.  Tash also played the whole game.

Dennis Levene didn't play, and was in a boot.  I don't know the details, but it didn't sound very serious.

Photos available at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4913164868264.197949.1272423206&type=1 (low resolution) and http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-Newbury-20121201 (higher resolution).  These photos may be used in any way for the benefit of MIT or by members of the team.

[Pat Coleman]

rlk: Would you be alright with us using a photo on D3hoops.com at some point if we wanted to put MIT on the front page?

[Hugenerd]

Pat, I am sure you saw this post, bust just in case you missed it.  Always good to get confirmation because the wording is a bit vague..."photos may be used in any way for the benefit of MIT."

Paul Dawson who was in the rotation last season as a freshman is probably the best on ball defender on the team.

I remember the semifinal against Whitewater.  Paul had an empty stat line, and fouled out in something like 10 minutes against UWW.  However, he got a big standing O from the MIT crowd when he came out -- after Whitewater's big surge in the second half, he was the one who kept UWW's PG in check.  Every MIT fan there recognized what he did defensively there.  I wish I was shooting from the baseline, but being in the stands let me get some nice shots of Paul on D.

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753276987&k=7wrMgVp

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753273515&k=Wkpj9rJ

BTW, it isn't often mentioned, but your pictures are great and I enjoy looking at them.  Many thanks!

Thanks!

Can't make RIC tonight, but I'm planning to be at the Cage on Saturday for the Newbury game.  I'll have a pair of 7D's with me again, so I can get shots at both ends of the floor.  Incidentally, those photos may be used in any way for the benefit of MIT or by members of the team.
And I have to thank the good folks at MIT-DAPER who got me credentials for the Harvard game.

[Pat Coleman]

I did see that post but I would never assume that that license would transfer to a third party.

[rlk]

rlk: Would you be alright with us using a photo on D3hoops.com at some point if we wanted to put MIT on the front page?

Yes (with credit).

[Hugenerd]

Great day for the NEWMAC, not perfect like they've had a few days this season, but 4-2 isn't bad, especially given the nature of the wins (well, one win in particular).   NEWMAC is now 31-12 on the season.

Congrats to Springfield on the big win. A night after falling to Westfield St. in OT, they came back strong against Amherst, beating the #6 ranked Lord Jeffs.  Only a few games so far this season, but I believe the NEWMAC is 5-2 against the NESCAC so far. Hopefully, Springfield can keep it up, but this was the start of a brutal week.  Counting yesterday's game, they have 5 games in 9 days, capped off by Williams a week from today.

MIT also bounced back, as they got contributions from nearly the whole rotation (sharp contrast to Thursday). Tashman had a big game, leading the team in points, rebounds, and assists (3 assists shy of a triple double).  Really good shooting out of Jimmy Burke, Matt Redfield, and Andrew Acker, who had 16 points (5-7 FG, 4-6 from 3), 13 points (6-7 FG), and 13 points (6-7 FG), respectively. Paul Dawson made his first appearance of the season, but Dennis Levene was still out.

WPI won in OT at Husson. Longwell and Coppola had 25 and 24, respectively. Babson beat Wesleyan behind 21 points from Matt Palazini. Wheaton and CGA each lost by double-digits.

[Hugenerd]

I did see that post but I would never assume that that license would transfer to a third party.

You definitely know more about this stuff than I do, just wanted to make sure you saw it (I thought that that post may have prompted your question).

You'll definitely have a lot of selection now, given rlk's vast catalog of photos.