MBB: NEWMAC

[WPI89]

Right now, It looks like the rich are getting richer... MIT stacking up the talent
.
I also read where Keene St has a 6'10" kid coming in

From what iI have read on NERR and heard, the Engineers here in Worcester are apparently going to rely on the backups to Matt Carr to step up and play big, since there is no word of them getting any one bigger than the 6'4"/6'5" range.

Unless there is a "BIG" splash to come, I think it could be a tough season for WPI when it comes to competing with the top NE teams.  Losing their center & defensive specialist David Brown to graduation are two big holes to fill.  They do have some good offensive punch coming back, but they will seriously struggle on the defensive end and need to find someone to rebound or they will have to send 5 to the boards and hold off trying to run someone on break outs.

It will be very interesting to see how this years Engineers Vs Engineers match-ups play out.

Massd3 - you said it.  I was afraid coming into last season ans was more than pleasantly impressed, but this one has the earmarks of a .500 season coming for the Crimson and Gray.  Of course a surprise freshman or 2 can change that quickly.

[rlk]

It seems to be getting crowded at MIT.  After the first semester of classes at MIT, the new players may want to transfer to WPI for more playing time on the court and more real college fun at WPI.  A win win situation for the student-athletes.

It is interesting that there is still a nerd perception at MIT that translates into no "real" fun.  Maybe it is somewhat true that there may be more nerds at MIT because it is a leading engineering school, but WPI is also an engineering school.  Although I don't believe it, many people associate engineering students with being "nerds".

FYI - All, but maybe a couple of the MIT basketball players are in the Lambda Chi Alpha (LCA) fraternity.  The recruits typically spend at least one night at the LCA frat house.  The LCA frat house is accross the river in Boston just a few blocks away from Fenway in the middle of Boston University (BU), next door to a BU dorm and directly accross from a newly constructed BU student center.  BU has ~30K students of which 59% are women and this is well known to the LCA occupents, especially in their weekend parties.  Also, their LCA fraternity house is undergoing a $2 million renovation that is currently underway this summer.  I believe this is more "real fun" there than many of the leading "party" universities accross the country.

Every year, at least for the past 4 years with MIT making the NCAA's, there appears to be more interest by basketball players in attending MIT.  Consequently, with 4 starters returning and the quality of roster depth, there are always players quitting because they may not get playing time and possibly see themselves as being passed by younger players.  However, these players seldom leave MIT.  I believe the incoming junior class only has one player left.

MIT has extremely difficult classes, but the basketball and other athletes have been admitted based on their overall college application with no priority given to athletics, so they are fully competitent at doing the work.  Other D3 schools may give priority to student athletes, but not at MIT.  MIT has had a lot of superior D1 players apply, but not get admitted.  As mentioned, it is also nice that MIT has a pass/fail for their first semester so all students can get used to the level of work required in their classes without destroying their GPA's.  There are numerous campus activities also, but I thought this may clarify what may be perceived as real fun.

Bballers - AMH63 is just trying to stir things up - which he has apparently done effectively.  Also - be careful about "no priority" to student athletes - that statement is patently false.  They still may have the highest standards of any university in the country (world?) - which is saying a lot - but the coaches do have say on admissions.  I have nephews at Columbia and at MIT right now - both student athletes - and both had excellent relationships with their respective coaches before and during the admissions process.

I think it would be more accurate to say -- and this is surely just as true of WPI -- that the admissions office won't bend the rules for athletes.  If your academics aren't good enough, you aren't getting in.  Period.  It doesn't matter how much the coach wants you and how highly regarded the coach is, and Coach Anderson is *extremely* highly regarded.  And from everything I've heard him say, he understands and fully agrees with this.

But beyond that, MIT still has more applicants who make the first cut than it can admit.  So it's looking for students who can bring something else to the table.  That "something else" can be a lot of things, one of which can be athletics.  But it might be other things.  If you have an entrepreneurial background, or some other special skill, or have done research with a faculty member while still in high school and that faculty member recommends you, that also counts.

[Hugenerd]

Todd Cramer is playing.

Coaches have no say in admissions...they find out if a recruit is admitted after they do. Usually recruits have to call the coach to let him know they got in.  They may have a great relationship and obviously the coach can tell admissions that that player is a recruit, but admissions does not give sports more priority than any other extra curricular activity.

[amh63]

I was just trying to get the conversation interesting...and Massd3fan hit it on the nail.  I did find the MIT "recruits" most interesting....thanks for the info.  Several of the bigs would have helped Amherst.....even though Amherst has a top "class" coming in with two front court players and several big time guards.  Since MIT's strengths are in the technical areas, I assumed the students wanted to pursue their studies in such courses....therefore the reference to WPI which have top notch programs in many technical disciplines.
I admit that my knowledge of the MIT "life" is somewhat dated.  I am aware that the majority of the frats are across the Charles basin/river...do they still rush students before the first semester of the first year?  I am also aware of the great number of schools nearby and that MIT students can take courses elsewhere and that students from a former "seven sister" take courses at MIT.  Even though MIT students can graduate in a liberal arts area.....it is still tough to go full time at MIT.  I went full-time in grad. school at MIT and often saw undergraduates hitting the books on the weekends when I went to my office to study.  Of course, my days in Cambridge/Boston were decades ago and entertainment life was colored by hanging around with my older brother at Harvard and being married when I was at MIT.   STILL, WPI in central MASS is surrounded by a great number of schools and good eating places.  Hartford and Springfield are nearby as well as Boston....with more parking options!
Enough said here and have a good summer all.....will be back in the Fall.

[walzy31]

Coaches have no say in admissions...they find out if a recruit is admitted after they do. Usually recruits have to call the coach to let him know they got in.  They may have a great relationship and obviously the coach can tell admissions that that player is a recruit, but admissions does not give sports more priority than any other extra curricular activity.

Hugenerd,

That doesn't sound right to me at all. I believe that may have been the case years ago, but I know for a fact that some MIT coaches have pull in admissions (as they should). I would be willing to wager that basketball is in that mix. For teams, even at the D3 level, to be competitive, coaches have to be able to bring in players that are A) academically qualified; B) athletically talented; & C) fit the coach's system. Again, you may have been right at some point in MIT's history, but I think times have changed over the past 5-10 years for their athletic program.

[amh63]

Saw the story wrt to problems at CalTech on the front page.  Wonder if the CalTech transfer to MIT was influenced by the situation/investigation/etc.  Actually, it doesn't matter in the overall picture....but it does seem surprising in D3 in general and CalTech in particular.

[WPI89]

Coaches have no say in admissions...they find out if a recruit is admitted after they do. Usually recruits have to call the coach to let him know they got in.  They may have a great relationship and obviously the coach can tell admissions that that player is a recruit, but admissions does not give sports more priority than any other extra curricular activity.

Hugenerd,

That doesn't sound right to me at all. I believe that may have been the case years ago, but I know for a fact that some MIT coaches have pull in admissions (as they should). I would be willing to wager that basketball is in that mix. For teams, even at the D3 level, to be competitive, coaches have to be able to bring in players that are A) academically qualified; B) athletically talented; & C) fit the coach's system. Again, you may have been right at some point in MIT's history, but I think times have changed over the past 5-10 years for their athletic program.

I can personally verify that Walzy is correct - and this wasn't even for what us on the board would call a "main stream" sport.  The student athlete I am talking about likely had all of the admin requirements anyway but I can tell you unequivocally that he was told about his admissions directly from the coach.  Also have a neighbor that plays the Cello that got into MIT 2-3 years ago and at the very least her "world-class" cello accomplishments were a tie-breaker if not a strong boost to her admissions...........

Have a great summer all - I am excited to "watch" this MIT team this year - when does their schedule come out?

[rlk]

Saw the story wrt to problems at CalTech on the front page.  Wonder if the CalTech transfer to MIT was influenced by the situation/investigation/etc.  Actually, it doesn't matter in the overall picture....but it does seem surprising in D3 in general and CalTech in particular.

It sounds to me like a large part of it was due to a particular quirk of Caltech's academic procedures (allowing students to essentially audit classes for 3 weeks before deciding which ones to take).  For all intents and purposes, it sounds like these individuals are de facto full time students.  But some of the other violations sound more serious, and certainly sound like things were being run sloppily.

[Hugenerd]

Coaches have no say in admissions...they find out if a recruit is admitted after they do. Usually recruits have to call the coach to let him know they got in.  They may have a great relationship and obviously the coach can tell admissions that that player is a recruit, but admissions does not give sports more priority than any other extra curricular activity.

Hugenerd,

That doesn't sound right to me at all. I believe that may have been the case years ago, but I know for a fact that some MIT coaches have pull in admissions (as they should). I would be willing to wager that basketball is in that mix. For teams, even at the D3 level, to be competitive, coaches have to be able to bring in players that are A) academically qualified; B) athletically talented; & C) fit the coach's system. Again, you may have been right at some point in MIT's history, but I think times have changed over the past 5-10 years for their athletic program.

Coaches have no say in admissions...they find out if a recruit is admitted after they do. Usually recruits have to call the coach to let him know they got in.  They may have a great relationship and obviously the coach can tell admissions that that player is a recruit, but admissions does not give sports more priority than any other extra curricular activity.

Hugenerd,

That doesn't sound right to me at all. I believe that may have been the case years ago, but I know for a fact that some MIT coaches have pull in admissions (as they should). I would be willing to wager that basketball is in that mix. For teams, even at the D3 level, to be competitive, coaches have to be able to bring in players that are A) academically qualified; B) athletically talented; & C) fit the coach's system. Again, you may have been right at some point in MIT's history, but I think times have changed over the past 5-10 years for their athletic program.

I can personally verify that Walzy is correct - and this wasn't even for what us on the board would call a "main stream" sport.  The student athlete I am talking about likely had all of the admin requirements anyway but I can tell you unequivocally that he was told about his admissions directly from the coach.  Also have a neighbor that plays the Cello that got into MIT 2-3 years ago and at the very least her "world-class" cello accomplishments were a tie-breaker if not a strong boost to her admissions...........

Have a great summer all - I am excited to "watch" this MIT team this year - when does their schedule come out?

I was on MITs coaching staff 5 years ago and I still talk to many members of the program regularly (until last year I was still on campus), so I can personally tell you that for the men's basketball program (I cannot speak for other sports), it is common for the coaching staff to find out admissions decisions from the recruits themselves (early and regular decision days are always nervous times for the coaching staff). I can also tell you that the coaching staff can write what is effectively a recommendation letter for a recruit, which is reviewed along with that students file, but the coaching staff is never given guarantees or allowed to be directly involved in the admission process. I can think of half a dozen or more players that the MIT coaching staff thought were "locks" but ended up not getting admitted and having prolific careers elsewhere (several 1000+ point scorers). A couple of those players are even still playing for NESCAC programs.

[Hugenerd]

Saw the story wrt to problems at CalTech on the front page.  Wonder if the CalTech transfer to MIT was influenced by the situation/investigation/etc.  Actually, it doesn't matter in the overall picture....but it does seem surprising in D3 in general and CalTech in particular.

He transferred in the middle of last year, so unless there was information surfacing about this last sumner/early fall, it probably didn't affect his decision.

[BBallers]

Coaches have no say in admissions...they find out if a recruit is admitted after they do. Usually recruits have to call the coach to let him know they got in.  They may have a great relationship and obviously the coach can tell admissions that that player is a recruit, but admissions does not give sports more priority than any other extra curricular activity.

Hugenerd,

That doesn't sound right to me at all. I believe that may have been the case years ago, but I know for a fact that some MIT coaches have pull in admissions (as they should). I would be willing to wager that basketball is in that mix. For teams, even at the D3 level, to be competitive, coaches have to be able to bring in players that are A) academically qualified; B) athletically talented; & C) fit the coach's system. Again, you may have been right at some point in MIT's history, but I think times have changed over the past 5-10 years for their athletic program.

Coaches have no say in admissions...they find out if a recruit is admitted after they do. Usually recruits have to call the coach to let him know they got in.  They may have a great relationship and obviously the coach can tell admissions that that player is a recruit, but admissions does not give sports more priority than any other extra curricular activity.

Hugenerd,

That doesn't sound right to me at all. I believe that may have been the case years ago, but I know for a fact that some MIT coaches have pull in admissions (as they should). I would be willing to wager that basketball is in that mix. For teams, even at the D3 level, to be competitive, coaches have to be able to bring in players that are A) academically qualified; B) athletically talented; & C) fit the coach's system. Again, you may have been right at some point in MIT's history, but I think times have changed over the past 5-10 years for their athletic program.

I can personally verify that Walzy is correct - and this wasn't even for what us on the board would call a "main stream" sport.  The student athlete I am talking about likely had all of the admin requirements anyway but I can tell you unequivocally that he was told about his admissions directly from the coach.  Also have a neighbor that plays the Cello that got into MIT 2-3 years ago and at the very least her "world-class" cello accomplishments were a tie-breaker if not a strong boost to her admissions...........

Have a great summer all - I am excited to "watch" this MIT team this year - when does their schedule come out?

I was on MITs coaching staff 5 years ago and I still talk to many members of the program regularly (until last year I was still on campus), so I can personally tell you that for the men's basketball program (I cannot speak for other sports), it is common for the coaching staff to find out admissions decisions from the recruits themselves (early and regular decision days are always nervous times for the coaching staff). I can also tell you that the coaching staff can write what is effectively a recommendation letter for a recruit, which is reviewed along with that students file, but the coaching staff is never given guarantees or allowed to be directly involved in the admission process. I can think of half a dozen or more players that the MIT coaching staff thought were "locks" but ended up not getting admitted and having prolific careers elsewhere (several 1000+ point scorers). A couple of those players are even still playing for NESCAC programs.

Hugenerd is absolutely accurate in his depiction.  That has also been reiterated to me by the coaching staff and confirmed by MIT Admissions personnel.  If a recruited student athlete provides some kind of verbal non-binding commitment to MIT coaching staff and the coaching staff is familiar enough with the player, they may write a letter of recommendation.

Walzy -You may consider this letter (that undoubtedly strengthens an application) as having "pull in admissions", but nothing is guaranteed.  There is no greater application strengthening from this letter than a letter from an MIT faculty member, a Senator, or from someone familiar with an applicant's other significant activity.  I agree with your other points about being a successful D3 coach, but it depends on the institution.  Your "A) academically qualified" is pertinent towards MIT.  RLK put it succinctly as "If your academics aren't good enough, you aren't getting in.  Period."  There are numerous websites that list 50 percentile class standings, test scores, etc. of students to provide an idea of what is considered academically qualified at each school and MIT's are very high when compared to other institutions.  However, I know there are other D3 programs that offer "academic" scholarships to athletes that are not available to other students with better grades and higher test scores.  IMHO, this puts MIT and other similar schools at a significant disadvantage.  MIT provides no academic scholarships.  I am in agreement with your "B) athletically talented" and assume it incorporates skilled basketball players that may not be as athletic as some other players.  I also agree with your "C) fit the coach's system" to a point.  One of the great things about Larry Anderson is that he can teach basketball players his system along with making minor tweaks in his system or frequency to take advantage of a player's skillsets, e.g., he ran more guard oriented plays with Jimmy, but more post plays with Noel.  I believe that MIT had around a .500 team (or maybe less) as early as 5 years ago without a lot of quality depth.  When MIT made the NCAA tournament for the first time 4 years ago, I believe that opened the door for student athletics to consider playing for MIT that would not have considered it previously.

WPI89 - I have no reason to doubt your story about the world-class cello player gaining admittance into MIT and that would definitely be considered strongly in the MIT admission process [unless there are several world-class cello players already admitted that would be extremely doubtful - :-)].  It would be naive to believe that there are never any MIT Admissions leaks of admittance information, but these are definitely not the MIT procedures and this would not be.  If a D1-type basketball recruit has 2400 SAT scores, top in his class, etc. along with receiving a letter of recommendation from Larry, I believe it is safe to assume he will be admitted.  Although I do not believe this would happen, Larry could probably tell the recruit he was admitted before the official letters are written.  It is my understanding that the MIT Admissions are reviewing applications within the last week of distributing the decision letters, so there is really not a lot of time before an admissions leak could occur.

There is a lot of misinformation regarding various university admissions.  I have read articles where there were MIT students and/or Ivy League admitted students who received university academic or athletic scholarships.  Neither provide either of these types of scholarships.  Typically reporters are confused with "financial need" scholarships.  Sometimes students are confused about the type of scholarships they receive.  One last RLK quote that applies here.  "... MIT still has more applicants who make the first cut than it can admit.  So it's looking for students who can bring something else to the table.  That "something else" can be a lot of things, one of which can be athletics.  But it might be other things."

[rlk]

Mitchell Kates seems to be having a pretty good summer.  Can't wait for the season to start!

http://www.app.com/article/20120718/NJSPORTS/307180141/Kates-leads-Seaview-Jeep-past-Team-Shore?odyssey=nav|head&gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

[WPI89]

Saw some teams have posted 12'-13' schedules already.  All I can find so far for WPI is @ Curry Nov 20th (note Curry plays MIT 4 days later).

[WPI89]

Schedules are out.  First impression is that WPI dialed it back from last year's pre-conference schedule.

http://www.newmacsports.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/schedule?team=WPI

MIT only as a few non-conference games listed so far.

[WPI89]

Here is the entire NEWMAC so far at least.

http://www.newmacsports.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/schedule