MBB: NEWMAC

[Hugenerd]

New D3hoops Top 25 poll is out. MIT still #1 with 10 first place votes and 600 points. WPI in the ORV category is #33 with 28 points.  Here's the link:    http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week1   

MIT lost 2 first place votes, but picked up 6 points overall to stay a single point ahead of VWU.

I wondered if they lost or gained 1st place votes or points. I looked for the preseason poll for that info before I posted, but didn't see a link for it. I figured you would come on and let us know the score though. Thanks.

I couldn't find the link either, but swapped out 'week1' for 'preseason' and it got me to the page I was looking for:

http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/preseason

[Hugenerd]

New D3hoops Top 25 poll is out. MIT still #1 with 10 first place votes and 600 points. WPI in the ORV category is #33 with 28 points.  Here's the link:    http://d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/week1   

Springfield also receiving votes with 7 (ORV #44).

[BBallers]

Jimmy Burke is a good shooter, but he isn't Karraker, and I don't need to tell anyone here what Hollingsworth provides. 

I agree with the Hollingsworth sentiment, but don't really understand your comment about Burke.  So far this season, Burke is shooting essentially the same percentage from 3 that Karraker did last year (actually slightly better), he's averaging twice as many assists, fewer turnovers, is getting to the line at 6 times the rate Karraker was last season (drawing more fouls), and all that in about the same number of minutes a game (2 minutes less per game than Karraker).  Karraker just shot more (8.2 3s attempted per game to Burke's 5.8), so he made about one more 3 per game. You can never have enough shooters on your team, but I think Burke has done a great job in filling in for the loss of Karraker.  The one guy you can't replace, though, is Hollingsworth.  Hopefully he and Karraker's recovery from their off season surgeries will continue to progress and we will see them in time to get into some sort of game shape before the games that really count.

From the two games I've seen (Harvard and Curry), it appeared to me that Burke has a harder time getting open than Karraker.  It might be the size difference (Burke is 5'10", Karraker is 6'4").  That may explain the difference in attempts.  It was my impression at Harvard that Karraker would have been more effective at spreading the floor.  But that's just how it looked to me.

Then again, going through my photos, I did see a nice drive to the rim by Burke through heavy traffic, and if I remember correctly, he made it (he certainly got the shot off cleanly).

Hollingsworth is definitely not the sort of player you run into in D3 that much, and Harvard's bigs would have had a lot tougher of a time blocking his hook.  I don't think Curry could have effectively defended him without leaving somebody else wide open.

You also have to take into account that Karraker was playing with Hollingsworth, who draws a lot of double teams and is not averse to kicking the ball out to open perimeter shooters, which may have helped get Karraker some more open looks. They are both great shooters, but Karraker is more a pure spot shooter, while Burke also has the ability to play some point and create his own shot off the dribble. Karraker is clearly a good player, and has had a tremendous career so far, but I just like Burke's game overall.

I agree that Karraker's extra 6 inches in height helps him in getting his shots.  Burke is the better dribbler and I'm happy to see him attack the defense off the dribble so defenders will hopefully open more space up within their defensive scheme.  IMHO, this space is critical for Burke to get his open looks.

I hope all of the talk regarding MIT's game with RIC is not distracting to for tonight's game against Tufts (potential trap game?).  I'm sure Coach Anderson will not allow this to happen.  Does anyone have any updates on the Tufts team?  I believe MIT has beaten Tufts the last 4 years, but Tufts won something like ten years in a row before that.  The Tufts team appears to be well coached (as is MIT's team) and last year's away game was very close.  This Tufts game may also be a benchmark game in discussions with Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, etc.  I'm sure Tufts will give their best effort.

[pick and roll]

New to Boards - saw MIT beat Tufts by 10 tonight - wondering if both Hollingsworth and Karraker are expected back this year?

[7express]

New to Boards - saw MIT beat Tufts by 10 tonight - wondering if both Hollingsworth and Karraker are expected back this year?

I'm a Western student and LEC fan, so take this with a grain of salt, BUT....what I heard is that both are probably out until the 2nd half of the season (January/February) and if they do indeed comeback who knows how effective they'll even be.

[pick and roll]

Thanks - Tufts is a middle of the pack NESCAC team.  MIT will be a much different team this year without those two guys.

[Hugenerd]

Just keep in mind that Hollingsworth played the entire season last year with the injury that he had surgery on and is keeping him out now.  Averaging 17 points and 7 boards a game, going for 37 against Farmingdale in the playoffs, and so on, all done with the injury.  From what I have heard, he did not even practice last year, just played in games.  Yet, he was still effective.  From what it sounds like, they are in no rush to get him on the court right now, just letting him heal and giving him as much time as possible, but I have a hard time believing that he won't be playing when it counts.  And if he does play, he will be effective.  His game has never been dependent on athleticism anyway.  For anyone who has seen him play, he does not need to jump high or run fast to be effective.  He knows how to get position in the post and once he gets it in there he goes to work.  And if you leave him alone on the perimeter, he will consistently knock down one of the ugliest looking shots you've probably ever seen. There is nothing fancy about his game, the only word I can use to describe it is effective.

On the bright side, his current absence opens up about 30-35 minutes a game for all the young bigs on the team to get some experience, which will be invaluable come later in the season.  Outside of Tashman, every other big man MIT has is a freshman or sophomore with very limited game experience. In the current rotation, no player outside of Kates and Tashman has more than one year of experience playing for MIT.  With that said, MIT is still an extremely good team with the active roster they have now (don't forget that backup PG Paul Dawson has also been out the first few games), but when they get everyone back they will really be something special.  Hopefully none of the guys that are out suffer any more setbacks and get a chance to make another run at a conference and national championship.

[nescac1]

The NYTimes article describes the injuries in more detail:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sports/ncaabasketball/mit-enters-basketball-season-ranked-no-1-in-division-iii.html

I just can't imagine a guy being able to come back within the same year from TWO microfracture surgeries, so I'd imagine Karraker playing this year is a long shot.  A fractured foot repair is no picnic either, normally I'd say there is no way that someone could contribute in the same year as that type of surgery, but based on what Hugenerd is saying, sounds like Hollingsworth is used to playing through pain and that he may be effective even though limited to some degree.  If he can approximate the production he gave last year when he returns, suddenly MIT is a very different team.  As of now, relying way too much on two guys to produce, but I don't see many teams on their schedule who will provide a lot of competition, so if they can go, say, 2-1 vs. RIC and the two WPI games, and get Hollingsworth back for the post-season, they could easily have their full squad together and be well-positioned with a top seed.  New England just seems to be very, very top heavy this year, based on early results, so I expect that Albertus Magnus, Williams, Midd, Amherst and MIT will all post gaudy win-loss records.  I'm not sure who is less inclined to schedule the other (and maybe none of them want to play each other), but it would be nice if, one of these years, MIT played one or more of the top three from NESCAC. 

Still, I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns. 

[Hugenerd]

The NYTimes article describes the injuries in more detail:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sports/ncaabasketball/mit-enters-basketball-season-ranked-no-1-in-division-iii.html

I just can't imagine a guy being able to come back within the same year from TWO microfracture surgeries, so I'd imagine Karraker playing this year is a long shot.  A fractured foot repair is no picnic either, normally I'd say there is no way that someone could contribute in the same year as that type of surgery, but based on what Hugenerd is saying, sounds like Hollingsworth is used to playing through pain and that he may be effective even though limited to some degree.  If he can approximate the production he gave last year when he returns, suddenly MIT is a very different team.  As of now, relying way too much on two guys to produce, but I don't see many teams on their schedule who will provide a lot of competition, so if they can go, say, 2-1 vs. RIC and the two WPI games, and get Hollingsworth back for the post-season, they could easily have their full squad together and be well-positioned with a top seed.  New England just seems to be very, very top heavy this year, based on early results, so I expect that Albertus Magnus, Williams, Midd, Amherst and MIT will all post gaudy win-loss records.  I'm not sure who is less inclined to schedule the other (and maybe none of them want to play each other), but it would be nice if, one of these years, MIT played one or more of the top three from NESCAC. 

Still, I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns.

I'm familiar with the article.  It would be great if they can get Karraker back, but I feel more comfortable with them being able to replace his production than Hollingsworth's.  If Noel gets back this year, I like MIT's chances against anyone.  As I said in my previous posts, he is a very tough guy, and if it is possible for him to be on the court when it counts, he will be.

If you listen to Dave McHugh's interview of Coach Anderson from earlier this season, it sheds some light on the reason for not scheduling some teams, in his own words.

[pick and roll]

So is WPI the favorite with the Engineers dinged up?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

So is WPI the favorite with the Engineers dinged up?

I know what you mean, but this is still confusing.

[pick and roll]

Sorry - to confuse - I guess it was a trick question. 

[Hugenerd]

I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns.

Also, not sure what has jumped out and impressed you so much about VWU and UWW...they both have 2 single digit wins against teams that had losing records last year, with at least one of those games at home. Neither team has shown any more consistency than MIT, but they don't seem to be getting questioned as much.

Meanwhile, MIT is doing exactly what they did last year, similar margins, similar scoring, similarly stingy defense, even without Hollingsworth or Karraker.  Last year they beat Curry and Tufts by 5 and 4, respectively, and they ended up doing alright for the season. This year they are missing half their upper classmen and still doing fine. I really don't think their goal is to go out there and blow every team out...as long as they are winning, I wouldn't get too excited about only winning by 8 or 10 points.

Anyway, should be a good test for the team on the road tomorrow night. Hopefully they can replicate their last result against RIC on their court...which was a win in the first round of the NCAAs Bartolotta's senior year (a year before Kates, Tashman, and Hollingsworth arrived, which I believe may have been Karraker's freshman season).

[Pat Coleman]

You're kind of cherry-picking your stats here. VWC also has a win against a team that played in the national title game and UWW beat IWU on the road last night.

[Hugenerd]

You're kind of cherry-picking your stats here. VWC also has a win against a team that played in the national title game and UWW beat IWU on the road last night.

First off, I didn't quote any stats, just made a true statement (they both do have single digit  wins against teams with losing records last year). Also, I didn't say they didn't have good wins, I said they haven't been consistent. You might expect a bit wider margin than 8 and 6 against two teams that had losing records last year, right after you beat the national runner up by 37. And you know as well as I do that said national runner up doesn't have a lot of the same cast on the court so far this season.  UWWs win last night was definitely a big one, but would not have been considered for the last poll, so going into the last poll they would have had 3 wins, 2 of them by single digits against teams with losing records last year, but I don't remember their ranking being questioned too much.  Either way, I did not mean to put down those teams with my comments, obviously very good teams...the overall message from my post was more about not scrutinizing MIT so much.  Sure, they have some injuries, a close win or two, but they are doing just as well as last year and things worked out pretty well for them then.