MBB: NEWMAC

[Pat Coleman]

You're kind of cherry-picking your stats here. VWC also has a win against a team that played in the national title game and UWW beat IWU on the road last night.

First off, I didn't quote any stats, just made a true statement (they both do have single digit  wins against teams with losing records last year).

That is the definition of cherry picking, just picking the one that fits your theory instead of the big picture.

[remsleep]

The NYTimes article describes the injuries in more detail:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sports/ncaabasketball/mit-enters-basketball-season-ranked-no-1-in-division-iii.html

I just can't imagine a guy being able to come back within the same year from TWO microfracture surgeries, so I'd imagine Karraker playing this year is a long shot.  A fractured foot repair is no picnic either, normally I'd say there is no way that someone could contribute in the same year as that type of surgery, but based on what Hugenerd is saying, sounds like Hollingsworth is used to playing through pain and that he may be effective even though limited to some degree.  If he can approximate the production he gave last year when he returns, suddenly MIT is a very different team.  As of now, relying way too much on two guys to produce, but I don't see many teams on their schedule who will provide a lot of competition, so if they can go, say, 2-1 vs. RIC and the two WPI games, and get Hollingsworth back for the post-season, they could easily have their full squad together and be well-positioned with a top seed.  New England just seems to be very, very top heavy this year, based on early results, so I expect that Albertus Magnus, Williams, Midd, Amherst and MIT will all post gaudy win-loss records.  I'm not sure who is less inclined to schedule the other (and maybe none of them want to play each other), but it would be nice if, one of these years, MIT played one or more of the top three from NESCAC. 

Still, I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns.

I think everyone should assume that neither Hollingsworth nor Karraker will play this season.  I have truly enjoyed watching Hollingsworth play for MIT....smart, tough, very unorthodox in some ways, great hands and deft touch...truly a very unique D3 big guy who proved every time out that it's not necessarily who is "athletic' it's who knows how to play.   Having said that if they can only get one of them back, I'd prefer Karraker.  One of the things that MIT does this year ( and the reason, I think that Kates is scoring 20+ per game) is keeping the middle more open...more lanes for Kates and more opportunities for him to slash.  They won't have that with Noel in there....he clogs the middle, he's effective yes, but lessens the dynamism of Kates becuase if he is in there he has to have the ball...otherwise not much purpose...hence Kates has to defer which is an advantage to the opposition.
What they are missing on this year's team so far is a knock down shooter who will help spread the floor even more....that's where Karraker comes in.  Jimmy Burke is a fine player and very valuable....but contrary to what some have stated he is NOT adept at creating his own show and at 5'8" does not present the problems that the 6'5"  Karraker, also a catch and shoot guy, does.  Until one of their guys,,,maybe Pedley, maybe Johnson, mature enough to spread out and knock it down consistently MIT has somewhat of a lower ceiling without Karraker....and this would be true with or without the reappearance of Hollingsworth.  Truly, who would you rather be center your offense around?  Mitch or Noel?  It's a no brainer IMHO

[Hugenerd]

You're kind of cherry-picking your stats here. VWC also has a win against a team that played in the national title game and UWW beat IWU on the road last night.

First off, I didn't quote any stats, just made a true statement (they both do have single digit  wins against teams with losing records last year).

That is the definition of cherry picking, just picking the one that fits your theory instead of the big picture.

That depends on how you interpret the intent of my post.  If you interpret my post as trying to discredit VWU or UWW, then yes, in the case of VWU, there is the contradictory information about their win over Cabrini.  However, as of the last poll, I would not consider my comments as cherry picking with regard to UWW, because there really was not contradictory information to the statement.  In any case, though, my intent was not to discredit those programs' rankings, but to draw a comparison to MIT.  My initial comment of "Also, not sure what has jumped out and impressed you so much about VWU and UWW" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, as it is the type of response MIT has been getting on the boards so far.  Therefore, my comment was a true statement drawing a parallel to the MIT squad.  I was just trying to make a point that the teams are not all that dissimilar, based on their results so far this season.  If MIT is able to pull off a win on the road at RIC tomorrow, they will be even more similar, as I would consider a win at RIC comparable to a win over Cabrini (#21 ranking vs. ORV #27). You are obviously free to interpet it as you may, but that was my intent. I wasn't trying to put down any team.

[Hugenerd]

The NYTimes article describes the injuries in more detail:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sports/ncaabasketball/mit-enters-basketball-season-ranked-no-1-in-division-iii.html

I just can't imagine a guy being able to come back within the same year from TWO microfracture surgeries, so I'd imagine Karraker playing this year is a long shot.  A fractured foot repair is no picnic either, normally I'd say there is no way that someone could contribute in the same year as that type of surgery, but based on what Hugenerd is saying, sounds like Hollingsworth is used to playing through pain and that he may be effective even though limited to some degree.  If he can approximate the production he gave last year when he returns, suddenly MIT is a very different team.  As of now, relying way too much on two guys to produce, but I don't see many teams on their schedule who will provide a lot of competition, so if they can go, say, 2-1 vs. RIC and the two WPI games, and get Hollingsworth back for the post-season, they could easily have their full squad together and be well-positioned with a top seed.  New England just seems to be very, very top heavy this year, based on early results, so I expect that Albertus Magnus, Williams, Midd, Amherst and MIT will all post gaudy win-loss records.  I'm not sure who is less inclined to schedule the other (and maybe none of them want to play each other), but it would be nice if, one of these years, MIT played one or more of the top three from NESCAC. 

Still, I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns.

I think everyone should assume that neither Hollingsworth nor Karraker will play this season.  I have truly enjoyed watching Hollingsworth play for MIT....smart, tough, very unorthodox in some ways, great hands and deft touch...truly a very unique D3 big guy who proved every time out that it's not necessarily who is "athletic' it's who knows how to play.   Having said that if they can only get one of them back, I'd prefer Karraker.  One of the things that MIT does this year ( and the reason, I think that Kates is scoring 20+ per game) is keeping the middle more open...more lanes for Kates and more opportunities for him to slash.  They won't have that with Noel in there....he clogs the middle, he's effective yes, but lessens the dynamism of Kates becuase if he is in there he has to have the ball...otherwise not much purpose...hence Kates has to defer which is an advantage to the opposition.
What they are missing on this year's team so far is a knock down shooter who will help spread the floor even more....that's where Karraker comes in.  Jimmy Burke is a fine player and very valuable....but contrary to what some have stated he is NOT adept at creating his own show and at 5'8" does not present the problems that the 6'5"  Karraker, also a catch and shoot guy, does.  Until one of their guys,,,maybe Pedley, maybe Johnson, mature enough to spread out and knock it down consistently MIT has somewhat of a lower ceiling without Karraker....and this would be true with or without the reappearance of Hollingsworth.  Truly, who would you rather be center your offense around?  Mitch or Noel?  It's a no brainer IMHO

I couldnt disagree with you more, on essentially every point you make.

1) With regard to Jimmy Burke, how do you support the claim that he cannot and does not create his own shots?  He is leading the team in free throws made so far this season (3 made per game) and is second in attempts (and the player leading the team in FTAs, Tashman, has played about 10 more minutes per game and is in the post all the time).  Do you think he is drawing fouls just catch and shooting?  Just as a comparison, Karraker averaged about half a free throw made and attempted per game last year.  In fact, Burke has already shot nearly as many FTs in 5 games as Karraker did in 31 games last year (17 vs. 19).  Go watch some video of Burke as a freshman, he had the ball in his hands in crunch time a whole lot, especially in the two WPI games (ask Coach Bartley if he thinks Burke can make his own shot).  In the game at MIT that year, Coach Anderson called isolations for Burke 3 times in a row, with no screen, down the stretch and Burke converted all 3.  I know that was 3 years ago, but he is doing similar things now (I just dont have any video from this season).  Karraker may be taller, which may help him get his shot off more easily, but 6'4" vs. 5'10" doesn't mean as much 23 feet from the hoop as it does under it.

2) The notion that you would rather have Karraker on the court instead of Hollingsworth is absolutely crazy.  Again, Karraker is great, he is a wonderful shooter when someone sets him up and he is open, but I dont remember many times when you could dump the ball down to Karraker and get an easy bucket.  Obviously Kates is going to score more if Hollingsworth is out, he is going to get more shots and be the main option on offense with him out.  You're also probably right about the driving lanes, but for me, do you really want your point guard having to score 25 points a night?  He has to work awful hard to run the offense, guard the other teams point, and now your asking him to lead the team in scoring also?  Might as well get him a mop and bucket and ask him to clean up the court after the game also.  With Hollingsworth, you get at least 15-20 offensive posessions a night where Kates doesnt have to do anything.  Maybe swing the ball around a few times, run the offense for 20 seconds, then dump it into Hollingsworth and let him make his own shot.  If he gets doubled, he kicks it out and someone else gets an open shot.  For Karraker to be effective, Kates still has to work his butt off to get him the ball in an open position.  Kates 'deferring' to Hollingsworth is no advantage to the opposition, its one more player the other team has to double...I have never seen Karraker doubled.  When Hollingsworth gets doubled, its more easy shots for perimeter shooters, and MIT is shooting 39% as a team from 3 so far this season.  Do you honestly believe that MIT makes the Final 4 last year without any contribution from Hollingsworth?  They may not make it out of the first round (they beat Skidmore by 7, Hollingsworth had 17...in the next round, they beat Farmingdale by 20, Hollingsworth had 37 and 12).

3) I would much rather center my offense around a dominant inside scorer.  The inside scorer gets easier shots, in addition to all the help he draws which opens up outside shots.  To have your scoring offense centered around your point guard puts a lot on the shoulders of your point guard.  I think Kates is up for that challenge, but he already handles the ball coming up the court essentially every play.  Now he has to slash and create throughout the game also? if you do that the whole season you are going to wear down your point guard.  Especially once Paul Dawson gets back, I think you are going to see Kates get more run at the off guard position, with either Dawson, Burke, or maybe even Frankel playing the point, just so he is more fresh at the end of games.  With Hollingsworth in there, you get a proven guy who is going to create easy shots for himself, and give everyone else a break. For me, its really a no brainer in the opposite direction, but you are more than entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to disagree with it.  And I truly would be surprised if we didn't see Hollingsworth at all this season (and I honestly don't know anything about his injury, more than anyone else on this board, I just know Noel from past seasons and I think he will do anything he can to get on the court). 

[BBallers]

The NYTimes article describes the injuries in more detail:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sports/ncaabasketball/mit-enters-basketball-season-ranked-no-1-in-division-iii.html

I just can't imagine a guy being able to come back within the same year from TWO microfracture surgeries, so I'd imagine Karraker playing this year is a long shot.  A fractured foot repair is no picnic either, normally I'd say there is no way that someone could contribute in the same year as that type of surgery, but based on what Hugenerd is saying, sounds like Hollingsworth is used to playing through pain and that he may be effective even though limited to some degree.  If he can approximate the production he gave last year when he returns, suddenly MIT is a very different team.  As of now, relying way too much on two guys to produce, but I don't see many teams on their schedule who will provide a lot of competition, so if they can go, say, 2-1 vs. RIC and the two WPI games, and get Hollingsworth back for the post-season, they could easily have their full squad together and be well-positioned with a top seed.  New England just seems to be very, very top heavy this year, based on early results, so I expect that Albertus Magnus, Williams, Midd, Amherst and MIT will all post gaudy win-loss records.  I'm not sure who is less inclined to schedule the other (and maybe none of them want to play each other), but it would be nice if, one of these years, MIT played one or more of the top three from NESCAC. 

Still, I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns.

You are correct that it may be next to impossible for someone to come back from two microfracture surgeries in the same year.  According to your posted article, it accurately depicts Jamie as needing microfracture surgery.  IOW's, he has been rehabbing his knees and I believe will play in January.  After Jamie's season/career is completed this year, I assume he will obtain the microfracture surgery mentioned in the article.

The article also accurately states that Noel played last year with multiple fractures in his right foot.  Hugenerd described Noel's game and how he could handle it again.  Noel's post game is definitely old school and an absolute pleasure to watch.  He is definitely a difference maker, with or without a broken foot.

Since MIT played a small rotation of players last year, it was difficult for some of the other players to get experience, so I believe there is some upside to these players (freshman and sophomores) that will pay dividends at the end of the year.  My primary concern about MIT is their wing defense.  Paul Dawson who was in the rotation last season as a freshman is probably the best on ball defender on the team.  IMHO, his return will help fill a big need for MIT.  I'm not familiar with RIC this year, but if they are similar to previous RIC teams, MIT will have some matchup concerns.  This will be a difficult road game for MIT, but I believe they have the talent and coaching to succeed.  Looking forward to the game this evening.

[rlk]

1) With regard to Jimmy Burke, how do you support the claim that he cannot and does not create his own shots?  He is leading the team in free throws made so far this season (3 made per game) and is second in attempts (and the player leading the team in FTAs, Tashman, has played about 10 more minutes per game and is in the post all the time).  Do you think he is drawing fouls just catch and shooting?  Just as a comparison, Karraker averaged about half a free throw made and attempted per game last year.  In fact, Burke has already shot nearly as many FTs in 5 games as Karraker did in 31 games last year (17 vs. 19).  Go watch some video of Burke as a freshman, he had the ball in his hands in crunch time a whole lot, especially in the two WPI games (ask Coach Bartley if he thinks Burke can make his own shot).  In the game at MIT that year, Coach Anderson called isolations for Burke 3 times in a row, with no screen, down the stretch and Burke converted all 3.  I know that was 3 years ago, but he is doing similar things now (I just dont have any video from this season).  Karraker may be taller, which may help him get his shot off more easily, but 6'4" vs. 5'10" doesn't mean as much 23 feet from the hoop as it does under it.

2) The notion that you would rather have Karraker on the court instead of Hollingsworth is absolutely crazy.  Again, Karraker is great, he is a wonderful shooter when someone sets him up and he is open, but I dont remember many times when you could dump the ball down to Karraker and get an easy bucket.  Obviously Kates is going to score more if Hollingsworth is out, he is going to get more shots and be the main option on offense with him out.  You're also probably right about the driving lanes, but for me, do you really want your point guard having to score 25 points a night?  He has to work awful hard to run the offense, guard the other teams point, and now your asking him to lead the team in scoring also?  Might as well get him a mop and bucket and ask him to clean up the court after the game also.  With Hollingsworth, you get at least 15-20 offensive posessions a night where Kates doesnt have to do anything.  Maybe swing the ball around a few times, run the offense for 20 seconds, then dump it into Hollingsworth and let him make his own shot.  If he gets doubled, he kicks it out and someone else gets an open shot.  For Karraker to be effective, Kates still has to work his butt off to get him the ball in an open position.  Kates 'deferring' to Hollingsworth is no advantage to the opposition, its one more player the other team has to double...I have never seen Karraker doubled.  When Hollingsworth gets doubled, its more easy shots for perimeter shooters, and MIT is shooting 39% as a team from 3 so far this season.  Do you honestly believe that MIT makes the Final 4 last year without any contribution from Hollingsworth?  They may not make it out of the first round (they beat Skidmore by 7, Hollingsworth had 17...in the next round, they beat Farmingdale by 20, Hollingsworth had 37 and 12).

3) I would much rather center my offense around a dominant inside scorer.  The inside scorer gets easier shots, in addition to all the help he draws which opens up outside shots.  To have your scoring offense centered around your point guard puts a lot on the shoulders of your point guard.  I think Kates is up for that challenge, but he already handles the ball coming up the court essentially every play.  Now he has to slash and create throughout the game also? if you do that the whole season you are going to wear down your point guard.  Especially once Paul Dawson gets back, I think you are going to see Kates get more run at the off guard position, with either Dawson, Burke, or maybe even Frankel playing the point, just so he is more fresh at the end of games.  With Hollingsworth in there, you get a proven guy who is going to create easy shots for himself, and give everyone else a break. For me, its really a no brainer in the opposite direction, but you are more than entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to disagree with it.  And I truly would be surprised if we didn't see Hollingsworth at all this season (and I honestly don't know anything about his injury, more than anyone else on this board, I just know Noel from past seasons and I think he will do anything he can to get on the court).

I've only caught two games thus far (Harvard and Curry).  Against Curry, he was 4-4 from the line...but all of those were in the last minute when Curry was fouling.  However, that *does* speak volumes to Jimmy's ball handling skills -- he's a much better ball handler than Karraker.  I don't know that I'd call him a second point guard, but I do remember that last year near the end of tight games when facing a press Paul Dawson would often be in there along with Kates, and the two of them would combine to break the press.  And come to think of it, near the end of the Curry game Burke was handling the ball a lot, with Kates playing off-guard.  Burke only had one shot against Tufts.

What Karraker could do that Burke cannot was draw a bigger defender out, which of course made life a bit easier down in the post.  If you have a hot outside shooter who's 6'4" or 6'5", he could disrupt opposing defenses just by being out there at the line -- opposing teams would need to put someone with decent size on him, and there aren't a lot of D3 teams who can field 4 players of that size.  So if someone stepped out to guard Karraker, it opened things up for everyone else.

Hollingsworth, of course, gave Kates one more really big option.  I don't think he interfered with Kates driving at all.  I can't even begin to count how many times last season Kates would drive hard for the rim, get tripled, go up as though to shoot, and dump it out (sometimes even across the lane!) to Hollingsworth for a ridiculously easy lay-in or hook.  I'm nervous about Kates being high scorer and hitting 20 every single game this season thus far (including Harvard).

[rlk]

Paul Dawson who was in the rotation last season as a freshman is probably the best on ball defender on the team.

I remember the semifinal against Whitewater.  Paul had an empty stat line, and fouled out in something like 10 minutes against UWW.  However, he got a big standing O from the MIT crowd when he came out -- after Whitewater's big surge in the second half, he was the one who kept UWW's PG in check.  Every MIT fan there recognized what he did defensively there.  I wish I was shooting from the baseline, but being in the stands let me get some nice shots of Paul on D.

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753276987&k=7wrMgVp

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753273515&k=Wkpj9rJ

[BBallers]

The NYTimes article describes the injuries in more detail:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sports/ncaabasketball/mit-enters-basketball-season-ranked-no-1-in-division-iii.html

I just can't imagine a guy being able to come back within the same year from TWO microfracture surgeries, so I'd imagine Karraker playing this year is a long shot.  A fractured foot repair is no picnic either, normally I'd say there is no way that someone could contribute in the same year as that type of surgery, but based on what Hugenerd is saying, sounds like Hollingsworth is used to playing through pain and that he may be effective even though limited to some degree.  If he can approximate the production he gave last year when he returns, suddenly MIT is a very different team.  As of now, relying way too much on two guys to produce, but I don't see many teams on their schedule who will provide a lot of competition, so if they can go, say, 2-1 vs. RIC and the two WPI games, and get Hollingsworth back for the post-season, they could easily have their full squad together and be well-positioned with a top seed.  New England just seems to be very, very top heavy this year, based on early results, so I expect that Albertus Magnus, Williams, Midd, Amherst and MIT will all post gaudy win-loss records.  I'm not sure who is less inclined to schedule the other (and maybe none of them want to play each other), but it would be nice if, one of these years, MIT played one or more of the top three from NESCAC. 

Still, I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns.

I think everyone should assume that neither Hollingsworth nor Karraker will play this season.  I have truly enjoyed watching Hollingsworth play for MIT....smart, tough, very unorthodox in some ways, great hands and deft touch...truly a very unique D3 big guy who proved every time out that it's not necessarily who is "athletic' it's who knows how to play.   Having said that if they can only get one of them back, I'd prefer Karraker.  One of the things that MIT does this year ( and the reason, I think that Kates is scoring 20+ per game) is keeping the middle more open...more lanes for Kates and more opportunities for him to slash.  They won't have that with Noel in there....he clogs the middle, he's effective yes, but lessens the dynamism of Kates becuase if he is in there he has to have the ball...otherwise not much purpose...hence Kates has to defer which is an advantage to the opposition.
What they are missing on this year's team so far is a knock down shooter who will help spread the floor even more....that's where Karraker comes in.  Jimmy Burke is a fine player and very valuable....but contrary to what some have stated he is NOT adept at creating his own show and at 5'8" does not present the problems that the 6'5"  Karraker, also a catch and shoot guy, does.  Until one of their guys,,,maybe Pedley, maybe Johnson, mature enough to spread out and knock it down consistently MIT has somewhat of a lower ceiling without Karraker....and this would be true with or without the reappearance of Hollingsworth.  Truly, who would you rather be center your offense around?  Mitch or Noel?  It's a no brainer IMHO

I couldnt disagree with you more, on essentially every point you make.

1) With regard to Jimmy Burke, how do you support the claim that he cannot and does not create his own shots?  He is leading the team in free throws made so far this season (3 made per game) and is second in attempts (and the player leading the team in FTAs, Tashman, has played about 10 more minutes per game and is in the post all the time).  Do you think he is drawing fouls just catch and shooting?  Just as a comparison, Karraker averaged about half a free throw made and attempted per game last year.  In fact, Burke has already shot nearly as many FTs in 5 games as Karraker did in 31 games last year (17 vs. 19).  Go watch some video of Burke as a freshman, he had the ball in his hands in crunch time a whole lot, especially in the two WPI games (ask Coach Bartley if he thinks Burke can make his own shot).  In the game at MIT that year, Coach Anderson called isolations for Burke 3 times in a row, with no screen, down the stretch and Burke converted all 3.  I know that was 3 years ago, but he is doing similar things now (I just dont have any video from this season).  Karraker may be taller, which may help him get his shot off more easily, but 6'4" vs. 5'10" doesn't mean as much 23 feet from the hoop as it does under it.

2) The notion that you would rather have Karraker on the court instead of Hollingsworth is absolutely crazy.  Again, Karraker is great, he is a wonderful shooter when someone sets him up and he is open, but I dont remember many times when you could dump the ball down to Karraker and get an easy bucket.  Obviously Kates is going to score more if Hollingsworth is out, he is going to get more shots and be the main option on offense with him out.  You're also probably right about the driving lanes, but for me, do you really want your point guard having to score 25 points a night?  He has to work awful hard to run the offense, guard the other teams point, and now your asking him to lead the team in scoring also?  Might as well get him a mop and bucket and ask him to clean up the court after the game also.  With Hollingsworth, you get at least 15-20 offensive posessions a night where Kates doesnt have to do anything.  Maybe swing the ball around a few times, run the offense for 20 seconds, then dump it into Hollingsworth and let him make his own shot.  If he gets doubled, he kicks it out and someone else gets an open shot.  For Karraker to be effective, Kates still has to work his butt off to get him the ball in an open position.  Kates 'deferring' to Hollingsworth is no advantage to the opposition, its one more player the other team has to double...I have never seen Karraker doubled.  When Hollingsworth gets doubled, its more easy shots for perimeter shooters, and MIT is shooting 39% as a team from 3 so far this season.  Do you honestly believe that MIT makes the Final 4 last year without any contribution from Hollingsworth?  They may not make it out of the first round (they beat Skidmore by 7, Hollingsworth had 17...in the next round, they beat Farmingdale by 20, Hollingsworth had 37 and 12).

3) I would much rather center my offense around a dominant inside scorer.  The inside scorer gets easier shots, in addition to all the help he draws which opens up outside shots.  To have your scoring offense centered around your point guard puts a lot on the shoulders of your point guard.  I think Kates is up for that challenge, but he already handles the ball coming up the court essentially every play.  Now he has to slash and create throughout the game also? if you do that the whole season you are going to wear down your point guard.  Especially once Paul Dawson gets back, I think you are going to see Kates get more run at the off guard position, with either Dawson, Burke, or maybe even Frankel playing the point, just so he is more fresh at the end of games.  With Hollingsworth in there, you get a proven guy who is going to create easy shots for himself, and give everyone else a break. For me, its really a no brainer in the opposite direction, but you are more than entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to disagree with it.  And I truly would be surprised if we didn't see Hollingsworth at all this season (and I honestly don't know anything about his injury, more than anyone else on this board, I just know Noel from past seasons and I think he will do anything he can to get on the court).

1) In this Jimmy and Jamie comparison, both are great players.  Both are great shooters.  Jimmy is the better dribbler and Jamie is about 6" taller.  Jamie has made a lot of clutch shots over his 3-year career to date and has more 3-point shots than any player in MIT history.  Jimmy had a great freshman year shooting the basketball.  IMHO, both are better shooters than creators and often rely on punishing other teams for leaving them to double team other players.  I'm sure each has created their shot in a single coverage, but not consistently.  I don't remember coach calling plays for them to create very often.  I remember seeing a layup or 2 in Jimmy's highlights and he is a good dribbler, but I believe his shooting skills are his best weapon.  I also recall a few post up plays run for Jamie, especially against smaller opposing guards, but I believe his shooting skills are his best weapon.  Jamie can shoot over other guards because of his height and Jimmy can take a couple dribbles to help get open shots.  Here's hoping we can see both of them play together again.

2&3)  This is a post versus wing discussion.  Noel was an All-American and his offensive game against Farmingdale was one for the ages, as was Tash's defense against Farmingdale's 7-foot center.  Noel's offense begins with the proper entry pass, but his hook shot is as accurate as a go-to shot as there is on this team.  I'm inclined to go for post versus wing, but it really depends on who is more healthy in this instance.  Since both players are in their last seasons of basketball in their careers, I'm sure they will do everything they can to play.  As with the above, I'm hoping we can see both of them play again.

Big game tonight for MIT against RIC.

[BBallers]

Paul Dawson who was in the rotation last season as a freshman is probably the best on ball defender on the team.

I remember the semifinal against Whitewater.  Paul had an empty stat line, and fouled out in something like 10 minutes against UWW.  However, he got a big standing O from the MIT crowd when he came out -- after Whitewater's big surge in the second half, he was the one who kept UWW's PG in check.  Every MIT fan there recognized what he did defensively there.  I wish I was shooting from the baseline, but being in the stands let me get some nice shots of Paul on D.

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753276987&k=7wrMgVp

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753273515&k=Wkpj9rJ

I remember that along with other games where he defended well.  Along with his ability to stay in front of his man defensively, he has great quickness.  I believe his skills will make the current team better and fill a need.  Personally, I enjoy watching good defense over offense.  I forgot what injury he has, but I don't believe it is serious.  I certainly wish he was in the lineup against RIC tonight.

[Hugenerd]

Great points rlk and BBallers, I really hope we see both of them back also and, in the short term, for a win tonight!

[BBallers]

Paul Dawson who was in the rotation last season as a freshman is probably the best on ball defender on the team.

I remember the semifinal against Whitewater.  Paul had an empty stat line, and fouled out in something like 10 minutes against UWW.  However, he got a big standing O from the MIT crowd when he came out -- after Whitewater's big surge in the second half, he was the one who kept UWW's PG in check.  Every MIT fan there recognized what he did defensively there.  I wish I was shooting from the baseline, but being in the stands let me get some nice shots of Paul on D.

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753276987&k=7wrMgVp

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753273515&k=Wkpj9rJ

BTW, it isn't often mentioned, but your pictures are great and I enjoy looking at them.  Many thanks!

[rlk]

Paul Dawson who was in the rotation last season as a freshman is probably the best on ball defender on the team.

I remember the semifinal against Whitewater.  Paul had an empty stat line, and fouled out in something like 10 minutes against UWW.  However, he got a big standing O from the MIT crowd when he came out -- after Whitewater's big surge in the second half, he was the one who kept UWW's PG in check.  Every MIT fan there recognized what he did defensively there.  I wish I was shooting from the baseline, but being in the stands let me get some nice shots of Paul on D.

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753276987&k=7wrMgVp

http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-NCAA-semi-20120316/21977503_NdDNMq#!i=1753273515&k=Wkpj9rJ

BTW, it isn't often mentioned, but your pictures are great and I enjoy looking at them.  Many thanks!

Thanks!

Can't make RIC tonight, but I'm planning to be at the Cage on Saturday for the Newbury game.  I'll have a pair of 7D's with me again, so I can get shots at both ends of the floor.  Incidentally, those photos may be used in any way for the benefit of MIT or by members of the team.

And I have to thank the good folks at MIT-DAPER who got me credentials for the Harvard game.

[remsleep]

The NYTimes article describes the injuries in more detail:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/sports/ncaabasketball/mit-enters-basketball-season-ranked-no-1-in-division-iii.html

I just can't imagine a guy being able to come back within the same year from TWO microfracture surgeries, so I'd imagine Karraker playing this year is a long shot.  A fractured foot repair is no picnic either, normally I'd say there is no way that someone could contribute in the same year as that type of surgery, but based on what Hugenerd is saying, sounds like Hollingsworth is used to playing through pain and that he may be effective even though limited to some degree.  If he can approximate the production he gave last year when he returns, suddenly MIT is a very different team.  As of now, relying way too much on two guys to produce, but I don't see many teams on their schedule who will provide a lot of competition, so if they can go, say, 2-1 vs. RIC and the two WPI games, and get Hollingsworth back for the post-season, they could easily have their full squad together and be well-positioned with a top seed.  New England just seems to be very, very top heavy this year, based on early results, so I expect that Albertus Magnus, Williams, Midd, Amherst and MIT will all post gaudy win-loss records.  I'm not sure who is less inclined to schedule the other (and maybe none of them want to play each other), but it would be nice if, one of these years, MIT played one or more of the top three from NESCAC. 

Still, I wouldn't rank MIT above Wisconsin-Whitewater or Virginia Wesleyan, both of whom, at this point, have just as much elite talent but more balance, at least until if and when Hollingsworth returns.

I think everyone should assume that neither Hollingsworth nor Karraker will play this season.  I have truly enjoyed watching Hollingsworth play for MIT....smart, tough, very unorthodox in some ways, great hands and deft touch...truly a very unique D3 big guy who proved every time out that it's not necessarily who is "athletic' it's who knows how to play.   Having said that if they can only get one of them back, I'd prefer Karraker.  One of the things that MIT does this year ( and the reason, I think that Kates is scoring 20+ per game) is keeping the middle more open...more lanes for Kates and more opportunities for him to slash.  They won't have that with Noel in there....he clogs the middle, he's effective yes, but lessens the dynamism of Kates becuase if he is in there he has to have the ball...otherwise not much purpose...hence Kates has to defer which is an advantage to the opposition.
What they are missing on this year's team so far is a knock down shooter who will help spread the floor even more....that's where Karraker comes in.  Jimmy Burke is a fine player and very valuable....but contrary to what some have stated he is NOT adept at creating his own show and at 5'8" does not present the problems that the 6'5"  Karraker, also a catch and shoot guy, does.  Until one of their guys,,,maybe Pedley, maybe Johnson, mature enough to spread out and knock it down consistently MIT has somewhat of a lower ceiling without Karraker....and this would be true with or without the reappearance of Hollingsworth.  Truly, who would you rather be center your offense around?  Mitch or Noel?  It's a no brainer IMHO

I couldnt disagree with you more, on essentially every point you make.

1) With regard to Jimmy Burke, how do you support the claim that he cannot and does not create his own shots?  He is leading the team in free throws made so far this season (3 made per game) and is second in attempts (and the player leading the team in FTAs, Tashman, has played about 10 more minutes per game and is in the post all the time).  Do you think he is drawing fouls just catch and shooting?  Just as a comparison, Karraker averaged about half a free throw made and attempted per game last year.  In fact, Burke has already shot nearly as many FTs in 5 games as Karraker did in 31 games last year (17 vs. 19).  Go watch some video of Burke as a freshman, he had the ball in his hands in crunch time a whole lot, especially in the two WPI games (ask Coach Bartley if he thinks Burke can make his own shot).  In the game at MIT that year, Coach Anderson called isolations for Burke 3 times in a row, with no screen, down the stretch and Burke converted all 3.  I know that was 3 years ago, but he is doing similar things now (I just dont have any video from this season).  Karraker may be taller, which may help him get his shot off more easily, but 6'4" vs. 5'10" doesn't mean as much 23 feet from the hoop as it does under it.

2) The notion that you would rather have Karraker on the court instead of Hollingsworth is absolutely crazy.  Again, Karraker is great, he is a wonderful shooter when someone sets him up and he is open, but I dont remember many times when you could dump the ball down to Karraker and get an easy bucket.  Obviously Kates is going to score more if Hollingsworth is out, he is going to get more shots and be the main option on offense with him out.  You're also probably right about the driving lanes, but for me, do you really want your point guard having to score 25 points a night?  He has to work awful hard to run the offense, guard the other teams point, and now your asking him to lead the team in scoring also?  Might as well get him a mop and bucket and ask him to clean up the court after the game also.  With Hollingsworth, you get at least 15-20 offensive posessions a night where Kates doesnt have to do anything.  Maybe swing the ball around a few times, run the offense for 20 seconds, then dump it into Hollingsworth and let him make his own shot.  If he gets doubled, he kicks it out and someone else gets an open shot.  For Karraker to be effective, Kates still has to work his butt off to get him the ball in an open position.  Kates 'deferring' to Hollingsworth is no advantage to the opposition, its one more player the other team has to double...I have never seen Karraker doubled.  When Hollingsworth gets doubled, its more easy shots for perimeter shooters, and MIT is shooting 39% as a team from 3 so far this season.  Do you honestly believe that MIT makes the Final 4 last year without any contribution from Hollingsworth?  They may not make it out of the first round (they beat Skidmore by 7, Hollingsworth had 17...in the next round, they beat Farmingdale by 20, Hollingsworth had 37 and 12).

3) I would much rather center my offense around a dominant inside scorer.  The inside scorer gets easier shots, in addition to all the help he draws which opens up outside shots.  To have your scoring offense centered around your point guard puts a lot on the shoulders of your point guard.  I think Kates is up for that challenge, but he already handles the ball coming up the court essentially every play.  Now he has to slash and create throughout the game also? if you do that the whole season you are going to wear down your point guard.  Especially once Paul Dawson gets back, I think you are going to see Kates get more run at the off guard position, with either Dawson, Burke, or maybe even Frankel playing the point, just so he is more fresh at the end of games.  With Hollingsworth in there, you get a proven guy who is going to create easy shots for himself, and give everyone else a break. For me, its really a no brainer in the opposite direction, but you are more than entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to disagree with it.  And I truly would be surprised if we didn't see Hollingsworth at all this season (and I honestly don't know anything about his injury, more than anyone else on this board, I just know Noel from past seasons and I think he will do anything he can to get on the court).

Well....glad to see some discussion generated on this.  Do I get any karma for that?  HN...geesh...calm down.  Are you angling for one of those talking heads point-counter point jobs?  You know...whomever volumizes wins.
PS  I've seen every game that JB. NH etc has played for MIT

[rlk]

Hollingsworth, of course, gave Kates one more really big option.  I don't think he interfered with Kates driving at all.  I can't even begin to count how many times last season Kates would drive hard for the rim, get tripled, go up as though to shoot, and dump it out (sometimes even across the lane!) to Hollingsworth for a ridiculously easy lay-in or hook.  I'm nervous about Kates being high scorer and hitting 20 every single game this season thus far (including Harvard).

Here's the kind of thing I mean (in this case, from the NEWMAC final against Springfield): http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-Springfield-20120226/21648637_pC28H4#!i=1726789309&k=6SDShMT
and this: http://rlk.smugmug.com/Sports/Basketball/MIT-Springfield-20120226/21648637_pC28H4#!i=1726753668&k=PcchRrS (and look at the preceding few frames).

[WPI89]

...................and the winner for the longest posts ever - basically saying the same thing over and over is....the NEWMAC board!  Hooray..................

Nice pics though rlk - I "applauded" you.