BB: CCIW: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[droppinbombs47]

Carthage has very little pitching this year and Wheaton is a solid team that has been ranked a little bit this year.

Many have credited the 7 - 5 CCIW start to Carthage as a direct result of  their pitching.  However talking to on of my sources who were in Wisconsin yesterday for the North Central 7 - 4 victory over the Redmen said otherwise.  Carthage pitching looked relatively strong with Ruffie coming back and throwing 3 innings in game 2 and just not getting touched.  In game three Rohe and Arenson both scattered 13 hits a piece with Arenson giving up four runs through 7 and 2/3 and Rohe giving up six though 6 innings.

In the 8th inning North Central had bases loaded 0 outs and didn't score and then again runner on 3rd one out in the 9th and didn't score so Carthage pitching held them down.  I think at some point you need to really tip your cap to the North Central hitting because these were solid pitchers that were getting hit. 

However, the difference in this game was defense.  Carthage made crucial errors in both game one and game three which cost them the game.  A routine double play was booted in game one which allowed for the 6 run ninth inning. Then in game three there was 2 outs runner on first ground ball to the third baseman over throw then when the runner came around to try to score the ball was thrown in the dugout allowing a second run to score which proved pivotal late in the game.

[BigPoppa]

My comments were directed to more than just last weekend regarding Carthage. Pitching has been the achilles heel of Carthage all year to this point. Their 5.63 ERA is about 2 runs higher than it normally is.

It was in no way meant to slight a solid NCC team.

[Gregory Sager]

Perennial power Carthage in a three way tie for second with perennial dormat Wheaton.  Just an observation as I lack info as to "why."

Luke Johnson is steadily building the Viking program.  I have to get to a game or two very soon.

You should, Mark. The Vikings are a lot of fun to watch. They have solid hitting up and down the lineup, and they have a knack for getting themselves into trouble and then finding a way to pull out of it, which makes them an exciting (albeit occasionally frustrating) team to watch. Plus, NPU's #1 starter, Mike Giovenco, was a 26th-round draft pick of your Twinkies last year. He has major-league scouts regularly showing up to watch his starts, and he mows down a lot of hitters with his 96 mph fastball. He's struck out 64 batters in 54 innings pitched this year, including 13 on Saturday against Millikin, and he has 200 career K's -- second on North Park's all-time list -- with part of his junior season still remaining.

[ChiSoxMan]

Has anyone found out what the big "incident" was at Saturday's game 1 of Carthage @ North Central? I'm not referring to the umpires being late, but one of my friends who went to the game and himself arrived late said there was some big "mess" that occurred.

[cardsalum]

Has anyone found out what the big "incident" was at Saturday's game 1 of Carthage @ North Central? I'm not referring to the umpires being late, but one of my friends who went to the game and himself arrived late said there was some big "mess" that occurred.

The big mess was the fact that North Central rallied to put up a 6 spot on the Red Men in the 9th inning in route to victory.

[ChiSoxMan]

Ah, OK. For a minute there I thought it might have involved NCC's head coach. I know he was riding the plate ump a lot in game 1, and I figured he might have gotten tossed again, or worse, bumped yet another umpire.   

[droppinbombs47]

Ah, OK. For a minute there I thought it might have involved NCC's head coach. I know he was riding the plate ump a lot in game 1, and I figured he might have gotten tossed again, or worse, bumped yet another umpire.   

Quite the contrary actually.  Carthage's head coach thought he was getting squeezed by the home plate umpire and made a rare appearance outside the dugout in game one to argue when he took his pitcher out of the game.  This led to the third base coach getting ejected by the home plate umpire in game two.  This could be what they are referring to as the incident.

However, going into the final stretch of the CCIW here, a week with several non-conference match ups and potentially very important regional games, I would love to hear some predictions of how this weekend will shape up.  I know some on here were off on their picks last weeks but this week gives you a chance to rebound.

My predictions

Millikin will take 2 out of 3 from Elmhurst
NCC will take 2 out of 3 from Wheaton
Wesleyan will take 2 out of 3 from North Park
Carthage will take all 3 games from Augustana

[HITandRUN463]

Perennial power Carthage in a three way tie for second with perennial dormat Wheaton.  Just an observation as I lack info as to "why."

Luke Johnson is steadily building the Viking program.  I have to get to a game or two very soon.

You should, Mark. The Vikings are a lot of fun to watch. They have solid hitting up and down the lineup, and they have a knack for getting themselves into trouble and then finding a way to pull out of it, which makes them an exciting (albeit occasionally frustrating) team to watch. Plus, NPU's #1 starter, Mike Giovenco, was a 26th-round draft pick of your Twinkies last year. He has major-league scouts regularly showing up to watch his starts, and he mows down a lot of hitters with his 96 mph fastball. He's struck out 64 batters in 54 innings pitched this year, including 13 on Saturday against Millikin, and he has 200 career K's -- second on North Park's all-time list -- with part of his junior season still remaining.

I certainly agree with you, Gregory, about how Giovenco is having the pro scouts licking their lips with his high velocity fastball.  But I believe that he isn't as dominate as last year, with his 4-4 record this year.  Giovenco has four big loses against North Central College, Univ. of Wisconsin-Superior, Webster Univ, and St. Lawrence Univ.
Now, while I was not at all of these games, I was at the NCC vs NPU game.  There were certainly a bunch of scouts behind the plate for the first pitch, but I noticed they all left before the first inning was over.  This might have been due to the lethal offense of NCC.  They recorded 4 runs off of 4 hits and a walk in the first inning.  One of those hits happened to be a homerun from NCC's lefty slugger Abraham.  But it should be interesting to see how Giovenco shapes up when they face four tough teams coming up.

[My Predictions for this week]
*Millikin will take 3 games from Elmhurst
*North Central will take 2 of 3 games from Wheaton
*IWU will take 2 of 3 games from NPU
*Carthage will take 3 games from Augustana

[ChiSoxMan]

Ah, OK. For a minute there I thought it might have involved NCC's head coach. I know he was riding the plate ump a lot in game 1, and I figured he might have gotten tossed again, or worse, bumped yet another umpire.   

Quite the contrary actually.  Carthage's head coach thought he was getting squeezed by the home plate umpire and made a rare appearance outside the dugout in game one to argue when he took his pitcher out of the game.  This led to the third base coach getting ejected by the home plate umpire in game two.  This could be what they are referring to as the incident.

Ah, another Carthage ejection, huh? That seems to be common with the coaches on that team.

[Gregory Sager]

Perennial power Carthage in a three way tie for second with perennial dormat Wheaton.  Just an observation as I lack info as to "why."

Luke Johnson is steadily building the Viking program.  I have to get to a game or two very soon.

You should, Mark. The Vikings are a lot of fun to watch. They have solid hitting up and down the lineup, and they have a knack for getting themselves into trouble and then finding a way to pull out of it, which makes them an exciting (albeit occasionally frustrating) team to watch. Plus, NPU's #1 starter, Mike Giovenco, was a 26th-round draft pick of your Twinkies last year. He has major-league scouts regularly showing up to watch his starts, and he mows down a lot of hitters with his 96 mph fastball. He's struck out 64 batters in 54 innings pitched this year, including 13 on Saturday against Millikin, and he has 200 career K's -- second on North Park's all-time list -- with part of his junior season still remaining.

I certainly agree with you, Gregory, about how Giovenco is having the pro scouts licking their lips with his high velocity fastball.  But I believe that he isn't as dominate as last year, with his 4-4 record this year.  Giovenco has four big loses against North Central College, Univ. of Wisconsin-Superior, Webster Univ, and St. Lawrence Univ.
Now, while I was not at all of these games, I was at the NCC vs NPU game.  There were certainly a bunch of scouts behind the plate for the first pitch, but I noticed they all left before the first inning was over.  This might have been due to the lethal offense of NCC.  They recorded 4 runs off of 4 hits and a walk in the first inning.  One of those hits happened to be a homerun from NCC's lefty slugger Abraham.  But it should be interesting to see how Giovenco shapes up when they face four tough teams coming up.

Giovenco has pitched in some hard-luck ballgames this year, his start on Saturday being a classic example. He left the game with one out in the eighth with a 2-0 lead, having struck out 13 Big Blue batters and given up only three hits. The bullpen blew his lead. He had no run support in the loss to UW-Superior; he gave up one run in four innings in what turned out to be a 4-1 loss, as the bullpen again faltered. The St. Lawrence game was more of the same as far as lack of run support was concerned -- two earned runs over seven innings pitched, but the Vikings lost, 3-2. And the Webster loss? Two runs given up in eight-plus innings, and the Vikings lost, 2-1.

In other words, don't be fooled by the W-L record. It's often one of the most deceptive statistics in baseball. (The 12-10 record last season of Randy Wells of the Cubs was a classic major-league example of that.)

I was at the NCC @ NPU game in question, and those scouts didn't leave the ballpark after the first inning. I was standing at the gate, so I should know. They did see Giovenco's worst outing of the year by far, some of which can be attributed to an ump with an inconsistent strike zone and winds blowing out of the south at up to 35 mph -- but most of which had to do with Giovenco simply being off and NCC's bats being very good.

Giovenco has started eight games this year, and the loss to NCC on April 2 was the only bad start he's had. He has a 3.17 ERA, and opposing batters are only hitting .193 against him. He's leading the league in strikeouts and opponent batting average in terms of overall stats (as of last Thursday), and he was fifth in the league in ERA going into this past weekend. The new stats aren't up yet, and I don't know how the four pitchers ahead him in that category (IWU's Jason Pankau, NCC's Nate Arensen, Wheaton's Eric Albaugh, and Augie's Matt Erickson) fared over the weekend, but I know that Giovenco helped his cause in just about every category except W-L record with his effort on Saturday.

Bottom line: Your comment that he isn't as dominant is not supported by the facts.

[ChiSoxMan]

I was at the NCC @ NPU game in question, and those scouts didn't leave the ballpark after the first inning. I was standing at the gate, so I should know. They did see Giovenco's worst outing of the year by far, some of which can be attributed to an ump with an inconsistent strike zone and winds blowing out of the south at up to 35 mph -- but most of which had to do with Giovenco simply being off and NCC's bats being very good.

I don't think the ump had anything to do with it when the score of a game like that was 19-13 and some half-dozen or so home runs were hit. I was at that game, too, and I've never seen the ball fly out of a ball park as often as it did on that warm, windy afternoon. Routine fly balls seemed to often end up well into the stands.

[Gregory Sager]

The diamond at Holmgren Athletic Complex doesn't give you any great angles to gauge the strike zone, unless you're standing behind the backstop -- but the NPU players griped about that ump more than usual. I agree, though, that the wind-tunnel effect of that gusty day had a huge effect upon the game. It seemed as though all of the CCIW games being played around Chicagoland on April 2 had scores more characteristic of volleyball than baseball, thanks to all that wind. Carthage swept Elmhurst @ Elmhurst, 17-6 and 25-16, and North Central beat North Park, 13-5, with North Park winning the nightcap, 20-13.

But I didn't want to completely write off Giovenco's bad outing to the weather or an inconsistent ump. I hate it when fans hide behind excuses when their team, or a player from their team, fails. At least some of the result of that game was due to good hitting by North Central, so I give credit where credit is due.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Anyone got any first-hand insight on IWU this season?  I've been studying the stats, but would like something more to interpret them.

Kraig Ladd was touted by some as a possible CCIW MVP - he is currently hitting .182, with a .250 slugging percentage.  Nagging injuries or just a horrible final season?

Brent Kulavic is currently 0-2 with an era of 6.03 (but he IS striking out >1 batter per inning, so I assume it is not physical, per se).  Was his sophomore season simply magic in action, or is he the ultimate 'hard-luck' story this year?

The team appears to be carried (to the extent that a 12-13 record for a perennial contender is being carried at all) by Jason Pankau (6-0, 2.15 era - the ONLY Titan pitcher with a winning record, and 2.80 era better than 2nd place) and Casey McIntosh (slugging % of .606 - he leads in RBIs with 31 [2nd is 19], and total bases with 60 [2nd is 35] - he has nearly as many HRs as the rest of the team combined).

Two other anomalies I'm intrigued by.  There are FIVE Titan regulars with on base % over .400, yet they can't score regularly.  And, after 25 games, the staff total for saves is ONE.

Any insights to go beyond the stats will be appreciated.

[HITandRUN463]

Perennial power Carthage in a three way tie for second with perennial dormat Wheaton.  Just an observation as I lack info as to "why."

Luke Johnson is steadily building the Viking program.  I have to get to a game or two very soon.

You should, Mark. The Vikings are a lot of fun to watch. They have solid hitting up and down the lineup, and they have a knack for getting themselves into trouble and then finding a way to pull out of it, which makes them an exciting (albeit occasionally frustrating) team to watch. Plus, NPU's #1 starter, Mike Giovenco, was a 26th-round draft pick of your Twinkies last year. He has major-league scouts regularly showing up to watch his starts, and he mows down a lot of hitters with his 96 mph fastball. He's struck out 64 batters in 54 innings pitched this year, including 13 on Saturday against Millikin, and he has 200 career K's -- second on North Park's all-time list -- with part of his junior season still remaining.

I certainly agree with you, Gregory, about how Giovenco is having the pro scouts licking their lips with his high velocity fastball.  But I believe that he isn't as dominate as last year, with his 4-4 record this year.  Giovenco has four big loses against North Central College, Univ. of Wisconsin-Superior, Webster Univ, and St. Lawrence Univ.
Now, while I was not at all of these games, I was at the NCC vs NPU game.  There were certainly a bunch of scouts behind the plate for the first pitch, but I noticed they all left before the first inning was over.  This might have been due to the lethal offense of NCC.  They recorded 4 runs off of 4 hits and a walk in the first inning.  One of those hits happened to be a homerun from NCC's lefty slugger Abraham.  But it should be interesting to see how Giovenco shapes up when they face four tough teams coming up.

Giovenco has pitched in some hard-luck ballgames this year, his start on Saturday being a classic example. He left the game with one out in the eighth with a 2-0 lead, having struck out 13 Big Blue batters and given up only three hits. The bullpen blew his lead. He had no run support in the loss to UW-Superior; he gave up one run in four innings in what turned out to be a 4-1 loss, as the bullpen again faltered. The St. Lawrence game was more of the same as far as lack of run support was concerned -- two earned runs over seven innings pitched, but the Vikings lost, 3-2. And the Webster loss? Two runs given up in eight-plus innings, and the Vikings lost, 2-1.

In other words, don't be fooled by the W-L record. It's often one of the most deceptive statistics in baseball. (The 12-10 record last season of Randy Wells of the Cubs was a classic major-league example of that.)

I was at the NCC @ NPU game in question, and those scouts didn't leave the ballpark after the first inning. I was standing at the gate, so I should know. They did see Giovenco's worst outing of the year by far, some of which can be attributed to an ump with an inconsistent strike zone and winds blowing out of the south at up to 35 mph -- but most of which had to do with Giovenco simply being off and NCC's bats being very good.

Giovenco has started eight games this year, and the loss to NCC on April 2 was the only bad start he's had. He has a 3.17 ERA, and opposing batters are only hitting .193 against him. He's leading the league in strikeouts and opponent batting average in terms of overall stats (as of last Thursday), and he was fifth in the league in ERA going into this past weekend. The new stats aren't up yet, and I don't know how the four pitchers ahead him in that category (IWU's Jason Pankau, NCC's Nate Arensen, Wheaton's Eric Albaugh, and Augie's Matt Erickson) fared over the weekend, but I know that Giovenco helped his cause in just about every category except W-L record with his effort on Saturday.

Bottom line: Your comment that he isn't as dominant is not supported by the facts.

Gregory,  I was just going off of the game that I saw at North Park, but thanks for the extended information about Giovenco's other starts (that explains his win-loss record).  I wasn't taking anything away from the fact that he is a good pitcher, I was just stating that I thought he had more of a presence last year.  I will agree on the fact that the weather at North Park did play a factor in the outcome, but their short porch-hitter friendly ballpark could be the main cause.    It seems that most games played at North Park will be high scoring affairs.

It looks like the perennial power pitchers are struggling this year.

[mr_b]

Here is a breakdown of Giovenco's performances this season:

opponent	IP	H	R-ER	BB	K	result
Atl Christian	7	4	3-1	2	12	W, 6-3
S Vermont	6	1	0-0	2	9	W, 14-0
St Lawrence	7	5	3-2	4	4	L, 3-2
Webster	8.1	5	2-2	1	6	L, 2-1
UW Superior	4	2	1-1	5	6	L, 4-1
U Chicago	0.1	0	0-0	0	0	W, 16-12
N Central	6	10	8-8	5	5	L, 13-5
Augustana	7	6	3-3	3	6	W, 14-3
Elmhurst	1	0	0-0	1	2	ND
Millikin	7	3	2-2	6	13	ND
totals	54	37	19 ER	29	64	record: 4-4; ERA 3.17

Last year through a very similar number of innings (over 8 games), here are his totals:

53.2 IP

24 H

10 ER (1.68 ERA)

32 BB

68 K

record 6-2