BB: CCIW: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[droppinbombs47]

North Central scored in every inning today HitandRun !!! Wow I haven't seen that since the Helsinki incident of 1919 .... and I think we all know how that one turned out 

[cardsalum]

As I said earlier this week, don't be fooled by Giovenco's W-L record. He is not struggling this season. Nice game, Mike!

Gregory this is getting borderline ridiculous with the Giovenco posts here.  He isn't even the best pitcher in our conference, just because he has a below average major league fastball doesn't mean every post needs to be about him and how he is God's gift to earth.  No your right he is not struggling guys are hitting under .200 against him that is just wonderful. I am not bashing him, but there is a lot more storylines this year in the CCIW than Giovenco's 5 - 4 record because his team can't give him any run support.  I need to see him throw against Wheaton and Carthage to jump on the Giovenco bandwagon.

In another news North Central beat Wheaton 23 - 14 and continue to put runs on the board.

I agree with Droppinbombs47 on this one...Giovenco needs to prove to me that he can beat Carthage and Wheaton.  Once he does that, then I'll tip my cap to him.  I agree he has the tools to be a great pitcher, but can he produce against the top teams?  We've seen him struggle against the playoff-bound North Central team already.  So I am excited to see him perform against the others.

Anyways...

I just saw that North Central scored in every inning in the contest vs. Wheaton.  I haven't seen that in a long time, and I mean a long time. 

If the Cards can get a sweep on Monday, then that would be huge news in the CCIW. 

North Central is just mashing right now, watch out they are hot 

NC's been hot all year long HitandRun.... It looks like at this point the conference tournament is destined to be in Naperville this year  . The baseball team is contributing to a very respectable athletic program and it will be great if they were able to host and put the school on the stage it deserves to be on 

[warrior35]

Wow, NCC bats exploded today.  Rough start coming off an injury for Urbanowicz.  How much did the weather play into this game?  Wheaton is certainly in a tighter spot than I think they thought they would be after struggling against IWU and NCC so far.  Who knows what the final standings are going to be anymore?  I'm clueless!

[norfrank]

Half the battle is admitting the obvious

[Gregory Sager]

As I said earlier this week, don't be fooled by Giovenco's W-L record. He is not struggling this season. Nice game, Mike!

Gregory this is getting borderline ridiculous with the Giovenco posts here.  He isn't even the best pitcher in our conference, just because he has a below average major league fastball doesn't mean every post needs to be about him and how he is God's gift to earth.  No your right he is not struggling guys are hitting under .200 against him that is just wonderful. I am not bashing him, but there is a lot more storylines this year in the CCIW than Giovenco's 5 - 4 record because his team can't give him any run support.  I need to see him throw against Wheaton and Carthage to jump on the Giovenco bandwagon.

Sorry, droppinbombs. I didn't realize that Pat had given you authority to police the topics in this room. From now on, I'll clear it with you before I post anything.

For the record, I was responding to this post:

Gregory,  I was just going off of the game that I saw at North Park, but thanks for the extended information about Giovenco's other starts (that explains his win-loss record).  I wasn't taking anything away from the fact that he is a good pitcher, I was just stating that I thought he had more of a presence last year.  I will agree on the fact that the weather at North Park did play a factor in the outcome, but their short porch-hitter friendly ballpark could be the main cause.    It seems that most games played at North Park will be high scoring affairs.

It looks like the perennial power pitchers are struggling this year.

Giovenco's start on Friday was his first appearance since the post above was sent.

NC's been hot all year long HitandRun.... It looks like at this point the conference tournament is destined to be in Naperville this year  .

That's premature. There's still six or seven games left for everybody in a pretty tight CCIW race.

[The General Public]

Wow, NCC bats exploded today.  Rough start coming off an injury for Urbanowicz.  How much did the weather play into this game?  Wheaton is certainly in a tighter spot than I think they thought they would be after struggling against IWU and NCC so far.  Who knows what the final standings are going to be anymore?  I'm clueless!

Weather not so much...horrific umpiring played a much bigger role. Possibly one of the worst umped games, as home field umping definitely took place.  Wheaton walked 18 or so on the day with NCC walking only 1. That was definitely not because NCC's pitching was better.  It was a complete joke and the umpires should be ashamed.

Not to say NCC shouldnt have won, because they should have, but the umping did play a big role in the game.

[DirtyJersey]

Wow, NCC bats exploded today.  Rough start coming off an injury for Urbanowicz.  How much did the weather play into this game?  Wheaton is certainly in a tighter spot than I think they thought they would be after struggling against IWU and NCC so far.  Who knows what the final standings are going to be anymore?  I'm clueless!

Weather not so much...horrific umpiring played a much bigger role. Possibly one of the worst umped games, as home field umping definitely took place.  Wheaton walked 18 or so on the day with NCC walking only 1. That was definitely not because NCC's pitching was better.  It was a complete joke and the umpires should be ashamed.

Not to say NCC shouldnt have won, because they should have, but the umping did play a big role in the game.

CCIW umping is never any better than average. Playing through calls is part of the game, and is a small part of what makes baseball perfect. Of course, unless the umpires have a hidden agenda...but I could guarantee they're doing the best they can even if they stink

[ChiSoxMan]

Weather not so much...horrific umpiring played a much bigger role. Possibly one of the worst umped games, as home field umping definitely took place.  Wheaton walked 18 or so on the day with NCC walking only 1. That was definitely not because NCC's pitching was better.  It was a complete joke and the umpires should be ashamed.

Not to say NCC shouldnt have won, because they should have, but the umping did play a big role in the game.

I had wanted to stay for this whole game but had a niece's birthday party instead, so I left after the 1st inning. It sounds like a missed quite a contest. What was so bad about the umpiring in the game?

BTW, I happen to be somewhat acquainted with the person who had assigned North Central's umpires for the last several years. I don't know him personally, just know of him. He and many of his umpires work D1 and D2 ball as well.

He's not assigning them this year, from what I hear. From what one of the players who knows this assignor from summer college ball said, NCC's head coach got rid of this assignor after he tossed NCC's head coach from a game at the end of last season.

I guess Saturday's result is what you get when you dump what was regarded as a reputable umpires association. I do know that I recognized the plate umpire from high school games I've seen. Don't know if that means anything.

[Gregory Sager]

Weather not so much...horrific umpiring played a much bigger role. Possibly one of the worst umped games, as home field umping definitely took place.  Wheaton walked 18 or so on the day with NCC walking only 1. That was definitely not because NCC's pitching was better.  It was a complete joke and the umpires should be ashamed.

Not to say NCC shouldnt have won, because they should have, but the umping did play a big role in the game.

I had wanted to stay for this whole game but had a niece's birthday party instead, so I left after the 1st inning. It sounds like a missed quite a contest. What was so bad about the umpiring in the game?

BTW, I happen to be somewhat acquainted with the person who had assigned North Central's umpires for the last several years. I don't know him personally, just know of him. He and many of his umpires work D1 and D2 ball as well.

He's not assigning them this year, from what I hear. From what one of the players who knows this assignor from summer college ball said, NCC's head coach got rid of this assignor after he tossed NCC's head coach from a game at the end of last season.

I guess Saturday's result is what you get when you dump what was regarded as a reputable umpires association. I do know that I recognized the plate umpire from high school games I've seen. Don't know if that means anything.

In the CCIW, each sport has its own rules as to how officials/referees/umpires are assigned. In football and basketball, the league takes sole responsibility for both compiling the roster of referees and for assigning them to work CCIW games. Each of the two sports has an official who not only works games himself but is in charge of assigning and grading every ref who works a CCIW game. The only say in the matter that coaches get is that they are asked to grade officials and hand in the grades to the CCIW's head official in that sport -- and in basketball, a coach is also given veto power to eliminate one ref from the list from working any of his school's games, which is the CCIW's way of trying to minimize the notorious antagonism often created by spats between coaches and refs.

In soccer, the league office ultimately has a similar responsibility for the assignment of officials, although coaches' recommendations are solicited when refs are chosen to work the CCIW tournament. Baseball seems to be the exception to this league-centric way of doing things vis-a-vis the selection and assignment of officials, in that CCIW coaches are given a free hand to find and select their own umpires for CCIW home games.

It seems to me that baseball's way of doing things is a recipe for abuse and/or incompetence, although I suppose that the CCIW has a specific reason or reasons of which I'm unaware as to why it puts umpire selection in the hands of the coaches rather than the league office.

[ChiSoxMan]

Greg,

It has always amazed me that apparently baseball coaches have this much say so on who umpires their games. Based on what you described, it seems that it would be much fairer and more impartial to have the conference utilize a staff than to have the coaches dictate who can and cannot umpire.

This also tends to be the case in high school ball from what I know and have read--coaches have way too much power in selecting their "buddies" to umpire. Also, I would think that umpires would find themselves too beholden to coaches just to get the "good" assignments.

Wouldn't this compromise the very integrity the umpires wish to protect?

Just my 2 cents.

[Gregory Sager]

That's my thinking as well, which is why I suggested that the current system seems to be a recipe for abuse and/or incompetence. I'm hoping that an old CCIW hand like Big Poppa or Mr. B might have some insight as to why umpiring assignments are left in the hands of the league's coaches rather than the league office, as opposed to the way it's done in the other major sports in the CCIW. There must be a reason or reasons behind it.

[BigPoppa]

That's my thinking as well, which is why I suggested that the current system seems to be a recipe for abuse and/or incompetence. I'm hoping that an old CCIW hand like Big Poppa or Mr. B might have some insight as to why umpiring assignments are left in the hands of the league's coaches rather than the league office, as opposed to the way it's done in the other major sports in the CCIW. There must be a reason or reasons behind it.

I'd guess that being around long enough like Augie Schmidt and Dennis Martel have, they know ALL of the umpires quite well. As for the reasoning behind it, it may have to do with so many games being rained out that coaches can find guys locally in a hurry if a game is re-scheduled. Football and Basketball do not normally run into that issue. It would be chaos if it rained all weekend (like it just did) and one person had to find umpires for all of the makeup games the next day if the original umps were already scheduled.

[Gregory Sager]

That's my thinking as well, which is why I suggested that the current system seems to be a recipe for abuse and/or incompetence. I'm hoping that an old CCIW hand like Big Poppa or Mr. B might have some insight as to why umpiring assignments are left in the hands of the league's coaches rather than the league office, as opposed to the way it's done in the other major sports in the CCIW. There must be a reason or reasons behind it.

I'd guess that being around long enough like Augie Schmidt and Dennis Martel have, they know ALL of the umpires quite well.

Maybe, maybe not. I have no idea how many umps do CCIW games, or how large the potential umpiring pool is, or if there are any standard qualifications for an ump (the CCIW baseball sports guide only gives the vague recommendation for assigning umps that "the most highly qualified should be sought for conference games"). But why would the familiarity that a Schmidt or a Martel have with umps who work CCIW games be any different than the situation in basketball or football? Hoops coaches such as Bosko Djurickovic, Mark Scherer, and Paul Brenegan who have been in the CCIW for a long time are very familiar with the usual suspects who don striped shirts for CCIW games, and the same goes for their long-time gridiron counterparts such as Mike Swider, Norm Eash, and Doug Neibuhr.

As for the reasoning behind it, it may have to do with so many games being rained out that coaches can find guys locally in a hurry if a game is re-scheduled. Football and Basketball do not normally run into that issue. It would be chaos if it rained all weekend (like it just did) and one person had to find umpires for all of the makeup games the next day if the original umps were already scheduled.

That makes sense to a certain degree, BP. But why should the league give coaches carte blanche to determine umpiring assignments when the schedule is first set? Because of the cramped schedule, the vulnerability of baseball games to weather-related postponements, and the fact that bad weather often simultaneously affects different CCIW ballparks, I agree with you that it may put an undue burden upon the league office to expect a CCIW umpiring coordinator to assign umps for multiple games on short notice.

But I'm not sure that putting it into the hands of the coaches is a reasonable alternative. First, in terms of traveling distance, location is not an issue in any of the other sports; officials who work games in Decatur or Bloomington or Rock Island are also expected to be available for games in Chicagoland and Kenosha. Second, why the lack of a roster of league-approved umpires, when such rosters of approved officials exist in other CCIW sports? If there was such a list of approved CCIW umps, it would be a lot easier for a CCIW umpiring coordinator to find and assign umps on short notice for rescheduled rainouts. Third, getting back to the original point, it doesn't make sense to give coaches the power to find and assign umps when the schedule is first set if the reasoning behind it is strictly rainout-related.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'll weigh in on Greg's side on this one.  Having an ump's future paychecks dependent on the goodwill of a home coach is a glaring conflict-of-interest.  Whether or not it results in 'shading' calls, I have no idea - but it sure doesn't pass the 'smell test'.

It is very much like the rating agencies being paid by their clients whom they rate - with the result that absolute garbage-quality derivatives got AAA ratings.  We saw the result of that!

[droppinbombs47]

Weather not so much...horrific umpiring played a much bigger role. Possibly one of the worst umped games, as home field umping definitely took place.  Wheaton walked 18 or so on the day with NCC walking only 1. That was definitely not because NCC's pitching was better.  It was a complete joke and the umpires should be ashamed. Not to say NCC shouldnt have won, because they should have, but the umping did play a big role in the game.

General Public ... were you even at this game to make some of these just outrageous accusations.  First off Urbanowicz gave up a hit and 4 walks in 5 batters, your gonna make the claim that it is the umpires fault.  If he was getting squeezed the coach wouldn't have taken him out of the game.  As for the other comments, North Central walked 4 people not 1 like the made up box score in your head.  Oh and the 4 batters that Wheaton hit and the 2 wild pitches, that must have been the umpires that butchered those calls as well, I mean I know that umps can control a game but I didn't know they could be that bad.  Finally, I have never seen a 9 run game be the reason a team loses a baseball game.  Maybe a couple close calls but there is no way I can believe that North Central scoring every inning was a result of bad umpiring. 

I had wanted to stay for this whole game but had a niece's birthday party instead, so I left after the 1st inning. It sounds like a missed quite a contest. What was so bad about the umpiring in the game?

BTW, I happen to be somewhat acquainted with the person who had assigned North Central's umpires for the last several years. I don't know him personally, just know of him. He and many of his umpires work D1 and D2 ball as well.

He's not assigning them this year, from what I hear. From what one of the players who knows this assignor from summer college ball said, NCC's head coach got rid of this assignor after he tossed NCC's head coach from a game at the end of last season.

I guess Saturday's result is what you get when you dump what was regarded as a reputable umpires association. I do know that I recognized the plate umpire from high school games I've seen. Don't know if that means anything.

First off, I know plenty of high school umpires who have become very very good college officials, same for basketball, same for football.  Just because you claim you saw the guy doing a high school game means nothing to his credibility as an official and how he umped the game.  I know you "hear" all these things but just an interesting comment on this how can you possibly be acquainted with a person but not personally know them, all of my acquaintances I know just a thought. 

Maybe it is time to stop blaming the officials and just making an argument that North Central and North Park are two very good ball clubs and deserve to be where they are at ... Atop the CCIW standings.