FB: New Jersey Athletic Conference

['gro]

OU#25,

Looks like I'll be have to abandon my Thursday start and HOF visit, poor planning by my customer caused a Tuesday press check to be moved to Thursday. Gonna hit him with about $2,000 in AA's/Overtime for the pain and suffering

I'll be leaving Friday by 6:30AM and it looks like my brother can make it too. Hotel is in Canton. Should be in Canton by early/midafter noon. Would love to hang out for a few.

If you and or Ric want to email me a phone number. I'll call when I get settled.

Press check? is JT in the printing biz or a different kind of press?

[PBR...]

ru fan i agree with most of your post...i am just trying to figure out what mangus said that was so classless? i know i would not be offended if the rowan coach said after the game if we played dvc 10 times i think we would win the majority of the games....to me its not like mangus said rowan didnt belong or shouldnt have been in the playoffs and were a horrible team, that would of been no class. i dont want a coach who is going to come out and blow smoke up everyone's butt and say rowan is the greatest team i have ever seen  blah blah blah.

[JT]

Gro,

This one is printing for custom folders.  We also do poly, binders, elastics, metal etc.  We are know in the biz as speciality printers or custom packaging printers.

Customers, design people, and Art Directors many of whom like Judy Garland, if you know what I mean, come to us with their wacky ideas and we figure out how to get it made.

For example, last year someone wanted 500 cheetah fur covered corrugated boxes with printed materials for a European drug launch.  So I nailed down the fake fur manufacturer.

Then I figure out what kinda glue you use with fake fur, get the boxes made, put the handles on, glue the fur, put the logo on the front, print and fulfill the materials, pack and ship.

Usually when someone can't figure out how to get something made they come to us.  The only truely bad thing about this business are those customers with caviar dreams and tuna budgets.  Those are the big time wasters.

['gro]

Gro's been in the packaging biz (production side) since he got out of school. Litho, flexo, gravure, liquid pak, folding carton, corrugated... you name it. Gro would send over a resume but you can just imagine Gro's work ethic from his time spent on the posts... multi tasking.

You never think when you're a kid you'd be making boxes for a living... it's paying the bills!

[JT]

Gro,

I finally joined the "family business" with Dad.  With foreign competition my systems development consulting rate went to crap shortly after 2001.  I've always been a problem solver, figure things out, streamline kind of worker, so it translates... I guess.

We fork over a percentage of sales for a prime Soho locale, reception, conference areas, sample library,  A/R, A/P etc to another guy in the business.

So now its a two man operation.  Since the competition is very old school sales wise, I've been using my computer skills to create talking brochures, video email, talking newsletters etc.

There's no loyalty with this MTV generation of "creative people".  They are vapid, have short attention spans, and are generally full of themselves.  Gotta develop tools to keep our message in front of these twits.

[phil]

Careful JT, I was an Art Director well before I was a Creative Director! Never cared for Judy Garland unless my daughter forces me to watch Wizard Of Oz for the umpteenth time.

Generally we like to beat people on your side of the fence up with lunatic requests and absurd timelines before asking you to do it for pennies above cost while throwing in a pro-bono request!

Overtime?? AA's?? Are you kidding me?? Har, har, har, har .... not if you want the next "big" job!

Generally I'm full of myself and have the attention span of ... what were we talking about? But vapid?

I would think that you're dealing with agency production people directly and not creatives. If you deal directly with creatives I'll show you an agency that's losing money or overbilling their clients.

[OU#25]

Phil,

If you're looking for a production (35mm/24p HD) or post-production house we would appreciate your consideration.  Thanks!

[JT]

Phil,

You aren't of the MTV generation, and neither am I.  I can remember my parent's telling me no and getting the crap kicked out of me with whatever my Mom was able grab and beat me with.  I remember when electronics and computers were luxury "expensive" items.  These kids... especially the "creative ones" have been told they are special from mediocre performances. They are used to getting everything they ask for.  I've wanted to drop a forearm shiver on more that a few.

And they call guys like you, people they could learn a lot from... dinosaurs.  I see it more often that not.  They also have no clue what anything costs.

Most production people are great.  Sometimes it helps to be involved in the creative process to steer people to "doable" or cheaper alternatives.  The big problem arises when the creatives have this great expensive idea and the account exec shows it to the customer.  Customer loves it, can't afford it.

Phil, we don't fall for the next "big" project lie anymore.  Especially if that person is under 40.  The good people know it is a two way street and have an idea what things cost.

We may lose battles but we win the war.  Anyone who is an ass pays more eventually.  If they are really bad to us, we recommend our competition to them.  Especially if we know the competition won't make the right way.

We seek a fair profit margin... the only ones who ever get raped, ask for it.  This is what was missing in my corporate life, I had no recourse for a lot of the jerks. Now I do.

[JT]

Phil,

Guys at least my age and above seem to have more honor and integrity in this business.  There are a bunch of great buyers that we deal with.  Sometimes the buyer will go, "I need your quote to be X."  That means he needs another quote but we aren't getting this one.  We are in the "rotation" of this buyer spreading it around. We'll get the next one.

Those are my favorite kind of customers. They are usually the most knowledgeable too.

[JT]

So Phil, what are up to these days?

[phil]

I'm in the process of trying to make a shift to the corporate side of the fence. After 25 years on the agency side I've about had it. I've had a few interviews with Fortune 100 companies and am specifically waiting to hear from one which would necessitate a move back to the Bucks County area after all these years in North Jersey. If nothing else, I've found the corporate side to be much more family friendly and willing to strike a work/life balance – which the agency side only gives lip service to. That and I've found the benefits to be sick (MTV slang) compared to the crapola I'm used to. Here's the HR conversation in last week's interview.

Phil sez: "So after 25 years in the business would you be asking me to start over in vacation time?"
HR: "How's four weeks and a day to start – you can always purchase an extra week in our plan"
Phil sez: "ummmm ... OK ... er"
HR: "And after you're fully vested we automatically contribute an amount equal to 10% of your salary to your savings plan. That's in addition to your 401k which we match dollar for dollar and your management bonus. And of course we'll take care of your relocation..."
Phil sez: "I can move out of Dirty Jersey immediately"

Of course I'm paraphrasing and securing this sort of job is like going through the inquisition and then pulling the sword from the stone, but it's a good direction to go for. I'm still shooting for semi-retirement by 55. This would be a good way to go without having to deal with the agency B.S. any longer.

...and don't blame it all on creatives. I can speak ad-nauseum about the ills of the industry. Much of it starts with clients who were seemingly plucked from spooning out the mashed potatoes in the company cafeteria – and turned into brand managers who manage their products and budgets with the fear that somebody from the agency might ask them to actually try something "different" – which would lead to their own scrutiny. These folks then proceed to turn down every creative execution until they're forced by time constraints to take the last one. At this point time has run out (which they can use as an excuse to blame the agency). Now everything from this point forward turns into a fire drill with an underpaid, junior account executive saying "yes" to any dopey client request along the way. You, my friend, are the last stop on the line and are asked to do the most with the least. By the time you're running the 8-color piece with die-cuts and spot-aquious coating, the creatives have moved onto the next client request. I can empathize with you! That's just the tip of the iceberg: 9/11, computers, Wal•Mart and industry consolidation have turned much of advertising into assembly lines run by bleary-eyed 20-something creatives who will make little money before flaming out of the industry before 30.

OU#25
Thanks for the offer but we do much in-house and in Manhattan. I checked out your website and will keep you in mind.

And "Go Rowan" saturday. Given what has happened so far this season, at this point they're playing with house money. No matter the result the season is a huge success.

[JT]

...and don't blame it all on creatives. I can speak ad-nauseum about the ills of the industry. Much of it starts with clients who were seemingly plucked from spooning out the mashed potatoes in the company cafeteria – and turned into brand managers who manage their products and budgets with the fear that somebody from the agency might ask them to actually try something "different" – which would lead to their own scrutiny. These folks then proceed to turn down every creative execution until they're forced by time constraints to take the last one. At this point time has run out (which they can use as an excuse to blame the agency). Now everything from this point forward turns into a fire drill with an underpaid, junior account executive saying "yes" to any dopey client request along the way. You, my friend, are the last stop on the line and are asked to do the most with the least. By the time you're running the 8-color piece with die-cuts and spot-aquious coating, the creatives have moved onto the next client request. I can empathize with you! That's just the tip of the iceberg: 9/11, computers, Wal•Mart and industry consolidation have turned much of advertising into assembly lines run by bleary-eyed 20-something creatives who will make little money before flaming out of the industry before 30.

Or the former secretary, who's now in charge of a product launch.  What you just discribed I am sooo familiar with.  Sometimes I wonder what happened to brains and balls.  Meetings to decide not not decide..... ARRRGGGGH!

This has been cathartic.  Thanks Phil. 

[zman]

Geez....for a moment there I thought I was eavesdropping on a conversation between Alan Greenspan and Lou Dobbs. When did DIII football turn into C-Span???   

P.S.

Hey JT....Phil IS  a dinosaur.  But a nice one.

[JT]

zman,

Its OK we know it is all sunshine and roses in the world of academia.

[rowanlb92]

Rowanlb sees where JTs true KARMA is.