FB: New Jersey Athletic Conference

[dlippiel]

I still look at our week 2 and see a W over Rowan...and that's not hypothetical.

Rightfully so clandfan, rightfully so.

[Bombers798891]

I don't understand why you think Rowan is deserving of votes but the only team which beat Rowan isn't.

How far do you take that though? Just using an E8 example from last season, Ithaca was ranked #11 at the end of the regular season, but the only team that beat them--St. John Fisher--(and they beat them a heck of a lot worse than Cortland beat Rowan) wasn't getting any votes in the poll.

Sure, that Fisher team went 7-3. But considering one of those losses was to MUC, how much better is this Cortland team than that Fisher team?

I think what confuses people about that logic is that it's clearly not universally true, and people want to know about the decision making process and when that argument applies and when it doesn't. I know you explained yourself a little more in a later post, but I'm, just throwing out an idea.

[rams1102]

I don't understand why you think Rowan is deserving of votes but the only team which beat Rowan isn't.

The circumstances revolving around Cortland have changed dramatically since that game.  Nevertheless, I'm doubting most of the voters really know that.  

I think PG has nailed it right on the head along with Pat's point that those who ARE noticing Rowan now see that they lost to Cortland.  I take exception to Rams 1102 basically saying that Rowan and Cortland shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.  Cortland WAS the winner in that game and rather soundly.  If we would have been healthy going into Montclair we would have won that game too.  The Cortland team that beat Rowan is a better team than Montclair.  In the end, Montclair won't be within 20 points of either Rowan or Kean.  So yes, we were ranked quite high early.  We beat a good Rowan team and injuries that most pollsters don't know about make us a different team now.  That's why we still get votes. 

Have you considered the fact Montclair was beaten by Wilkes 37-10?  A team that is 4-3?
How about the fact that their 6 wins are against teams with a combined 16-26 record.

I will stick to my earlier observation that the NJAC is not as good as we like to think. There are two good teams in Rowan and Kean and a Cortland if they were healthy but they aren't so I will drop them.  Next you have Montclair and Cortland and...maybe, TCNJ.  The rest are just bad.  Beat Rowan or Kean and you will get votes but I think both those games will be over at halftime.

Here I go, getting into trouble again. I know Montclair is an over-rated 6-1, Rowan and Kean are the best in the NJAC. Cortland had a tough year, but they did lose to Kean and us. Cortland did beat Rowan. These are the facts. Yes it is nit picking challanging Cortlands 8 votes, but we all cling onto the little things when you season is not going well, especially when you are a lousy 6-1. I'm still worried abour the W.Conn game.

[RedDragonFan]

I think what confuses people about that logic is that it's clearly not universally true, and people want to know about the decision making process and when that argument applies and when it doesn't. I know you explained yourself a little more in a later post, but I'm, just throwing out an idea.

I would submit that there are no universal truths in polls.  There is a huge amount of subjectivity and as soon as that is introduced into the equation, everything goes out the window and debates like this result!  Of all the potential voters, just 8 voted for Cortland.  Maybe it's the Rowan win, maybe it's a nod to the coaching staff for keeping a young team missing their starting QB focussed enough to pull off 5 wins and counting or maybe they have an odd fascination with dragons.  Who knows? It's 8 votes.  Kean or Rowan will likely be on top of the NJAC which is the only poll that matters in the end. 

[rams1102]

I think what confuses people about that logic is that it's clearly not universally true, and people want to know about the decision making process and when that argument applies and when it doesn't. I know you explained yourself a little more in a later post, but I'm, just throwing out an idea.

I would submit that there are no universal truths in polls.  There is a huge amount of subjectivity and as soon as that is introduced into the equation, everything goes out the window and debates like this result!  Of all the potential voters, just 8 voted for Cortland.  Maybe it's the Rowan win, maybe it's a nod to the coaching staff for keeping a young team missing their starting QB focussed enough to pull off 5 wins and counting or maybe they have an odd fascination with dragons.  Who knows? It's 8 votes.  Kean or Rowan will likely be on top of the NJAC which is the only poll that matters in the end. 

Well said, but I hope you are wrong. Just being a Montclair fan.

[NJACRules]

[
The circumstances revolving around Cortland have changed dramatically since that game.  Nevertheless, I'm doubting most of the voters really know that.  

I think PG has nailed it right on the head along with Pat's point that those who ARE noticing Rowan now see that they lost to Cortland.  I take exception to Rams 1102 basically saying that Rowan and Cortland shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.  Cortland WAS the winner in that game and rather soundly.  If we would have been healthy going into Montclair we would have won that game too.  The Cortland team that beat Rowan is a better team than Montclair.  In the end, Montclair won't be within 20 points of either Rowan or Kean.  So yes, we were ranked quite high early.  We beat a good Rowan team and injuries that most pollsters don't know about make us a different team now.  That's why we still get votes. 

Have you considered the fact Montclair was beaten by Wilkes 37-10?  A team that is 4-3?
How about the fact that their 6 wins are against teams with a combined 16-26 record.

I will stick to my earlier observation that the NJAC is not as good as we like to think. There are two good teams in Rowan and Kean and a Cortland if they were healthy but they Caren't so I will drop them.  Next you have Montclair and Cortland and...maybe, TCNJ.  The rest are just bad.  Beat Rowan or Kean and you will get votes but I think both those games will be over at halftime.



[/quote]
Cortland was the winner of the Rowan game when Rowan did not have their starting Quarterback.  If you are going to judge Rowan by results only then judge Cortland by results only .  Results are that Cortland lost to Kean and Montclair and beat Rowan without their # 1 offensive player.  Don't talk about beating someone rather soundly without mentioning that they were without their Quarterback and then blame your losses on not having your quarterback.

[John McGraw]

Some pollsters also might have none of the NJAC teams ranked. They may be waiting to see what shakes out since it has been a strange season that began with Cortland very highly ranked coming off a national quarterfinals appearance but missing a great running back and an entire offensive line. We'll know a lot more after Saturday's game between Rowan and Kean.  I would say the winner has a good shot at appearing in next week's top 25.

[catchball]

catchball, Fast Freddie, and msupenguin,

Need some insight into this Montclair Bull S#%t. What the heck is going on. The Red Hawks are coached like a tenyeared professor. They know they have jobs for life and do what ever they want. Do they want to be champions or want to be's. I get the impression that Giancola and O'Conner just do not have a clue. I'm sorry bur Fisher is not the guy and not a team player. He appears to be all about himself. How in in the would do you expect to beat Rowan and Kean the way things are going. This all appears to be like politics, "I know what you need and do as I say". Please wake up and smell the roses. There is no guarantee we can beat W.Conn. There is still time, don't let it slip away.

RAMS,
I just don't know what to say anymore, I can't see MSU beating Rowan or Kean ( Even though I will be rooting for MSU), but with an offense that just isn't there is a equation for disaster. Where, oh where, is the offensive line coach ? How can your top running back only score a measley 29 yds Someone needs to put a foot somewhere !!
Fischer does not gel with the team, case closed, he is not well liked and hasn't been since he came here I'm not sure why but that's just the way it is and it probably won't change.  You can't knock Coach G's outstanding career, but I think the play calling is poor and if they plan on beating Rowan , Kean and West Conn something needs to change drastically.
Won't know until Friday if I'm gonna make the West Conn game, hopefully I will because the way MSU is playing it may be their last win of the season.

[clandfan]

[/quote]
Cortland was the winner of the Rowan game when Rowan did not have their starting Quarterback.  If you are going to judge Rowan by results only then judge Cortland by results only .  Results are that Cortland lost to Kean and Montclair and beat Rowan without their # 1 offensive player.  Don't talk about beating someone rather soundly without mentioning that they were without their Quarterback and then blame your losses on not having your quarterback.
[/quote]

What's your point NJACRules?  Have you actually read my posts?  What do you want me to say?  I clearly have stated that Rowan and Kean are at the top of the NJAC.  By your logic, I should be putting Cortland back in the discussion of being at the top.  You lost when you didn't have your starting QB...there ya go.  We lost when we didn't have our starting QB.  How many games were you without him?  How many games have we played without him?  Geez maybe I should keep Cortland at the top. 

I don't get your point.  If you think I'm "judging" Rowan unfairly, read again...where I said Rowan and Kean were at the top and that I removed Cortland from the mix.  They aren't as good as you now...it is clear.  You are better, you should be ranked...that's probably why cortland still gets votes...you have 1 loss.  It happens to be to us.  That is fact.  Would you beat us now??? Most likely but I think our defense would make it formidable whether you have your starting QB or not...but that's hypothetical and we aren't going to play again.  I've accepted the fact that we don't have our starting QB and that has hurt our offense and I have accepted that we lost to Kean and Montclair.  Sounds like you still have a problem with your loss to Cortland.  That's on you...not me.  You lost ... We won.  If you want to put an asterisk by it because you didn't have your starting QB...be my guest.  In 10 years, 20 years however many years you want, you will look back and see that in 2009 Cortland beat Rowan. 

[rams1102]

Cortland was the winner of the Rowan game when Rowan did not have their starting Quarterback.  If you are going to judge Rowan by results only then judge Cortland by results only .  Results are that Cortland lost to Kean and Montclair and beat Rowan without their # 1 offensive player.  Don't talk about beating someone rather soundly without mentioning that they were without their Quarterback and then blame your losses on not having your quarterback.
[/quote]

What's your point NJACRules?  Have you actually read my posts?  What do you want me to say?  I clearly have stated that Rowan and Kean are at the top of the NJAC.  By your logic, I should be putting Cortland back in the discussion of being at the top.  You lost when you didn't have your starting QB...there ya go.  We lost when we didn't have our starting QB.  How many games were you without him?  How many games have we played without him?  Geez maybe I should keep Cortland at the top. 

I don't get your point.  If you think I'm "judging" Rowan unfairly, read again...where I said Rowan and Kean were at the top and that I removed Cortland from the mix.  They aren't as good as you now...it is clear.  You are better, you should be ranked...that's probably why cortland still gets votes...you have 1 loss.  It happens to be to us.  That is fact.  Would you beat us now??? Most likely but I think our defense would make it formidable whether you have your starting QB or not...but that's hypothetical and we aren't going to play again.  I've accepted the fact that we don't have our starting QB and that has hurt our offense and I have accepted that we lost to Kean and Montclair.  Sounds like you still have a problem with your loss to Cortland.  That's on you...not me.  You lost ... We won.  If you want to put an asterisk by it because you didn't have your starting QB...be my guest.  In 10 years, 20 years however many years you want, you will look back and see that in 2009 Cortland beat Rowan. 
[/quote]

I really feel your pain. You have played the top 2 teams in the NJAC and you are 1-1. We still have to play them. We still have W.Conn and who knows, will Fisher show up. Fisher is still yours if you want him. Please take him so Boysen can play. I got Montclair (-14.5) in the pick-em's, what should I do? You know the answer, but I may get burnt.

[clandfan]

I really feel your pain. You have played the top 2 teams in the NJAC and you are 1-1. We still have to play them. We still have W.Conn and who knows, will Fisher show up. Fisher is still yours if you want him. Please take him so Boysen can play. I got Montclair (-14.5) in the pick-em's, what should I do? You know the answer, but I may get burnt.
[/quote]

Well, don't slight yourself.  We have played the 3 best teams in the NJAC and lost 2 of them.  I would like to argue that we are better than Montclair but the scoreboard says otherwise.  Having seen you, Kean and Rowan, I would be hardpressed to pick Montclair and your pick-em spread is probably pretty good.  I actually think Rowan may be stronger than Kean...I am looking forward to that match-up.  Having seen Fisher now and hearing other posters...I guess I will pass now.  I hope Alex Smith can get healthy but, at the least, he can manage the game for us.  We clearly aren't going to be able to run the score up on anyone.  If we can score 20 points in any game, we should be able to win the way our defense has been playing. 

[hammond5]

Late posting of 4M--TCNJ's Lions vs. CORTLAND STATE UNIVERSITY's Wildcat
the fad-formation revealed @ http://wp.me/pChoN-hR

[hammond5]

Lions out, but not down--TCNJ: We ain't about to quit
read for yourself @ http://wp.me/sChoN-team

[JT]

Kean pregame http://rowanfootball.com/2009/10/rowans-path-to-njac-title-begins-with-kean/

[cstate19]

Wow, I take a little break and the boards explode.