FB: New Jersey Athletic Conference

[Knightstalker]

It is funny, I guess.... who is the dirtiest team. To a team... and I asked 'em all... Cortland.  I noticed certain things on the sidelines, for my own edification I started asking.

1) Cortland
2) Montclair
3) Kean
4) Rowan

That is because NJCU doesn't have a team anymore.

[JT]

It is funny, I guess.... who is the dirtiest team. To a team... and I asked 'em all... Cortland.  I noticed certain things on the sidelines, for my own edification I started asking.

1) Cortland
2) Montclair
3) Kean
4) Rowan

That is because NJCU doesn't have a team anymore.

I used to test ideas when I did the ATE.  I never got enough participation from teams outside the NJAC, so this kinda thing never went anywhere. I tried to get 10 players from every team to answer survey type questions.  I wasn't able to get 10 players from each team outside the NJAC to do it.

Here's another... keep in mind that this was pre Buff St and Brockport and post Jersey City:

Which team is the best(worst) trash talker:

1) Kean
2) Rowan
3) Cortland
4) Montclair
5) College of NJ

[JT]

I'll have to look through the archives.  There were some others.

[MSU Pride]

Wesleydad, you can only lead a horse to water, I emailed everyone on the MSU Football Past and Present Facebook site, sent the txts and made the calls...I tried to explain to them it doesn't make you a good alum by partying at the trainstation for Homecoming and attending our annual MSU Beefsteak...LOL

Stopped by MSU afterwork yesterday to wish Coach Giancola, Coach O'conner, Coach Agresta and the rest goodluck on Sat, I told G I have never seen so many people on D3football.com route for Montclair before and he started laughing. These boys look ready to go!!! This game is going to be one for the ages...



"Keep Pouding"

Sam Mills

[rams1102]

Wesleydad, you can only lead a horse to water, I emailed everyone on the MSU Football Past and Present Facebook site, sent the txts and made the calls...I tried to explain to them it doesn't make you a good alum by partying at the trainstation for Homecoming and attending our annual MSU Beefsteak...LOL

Stopped by MSU afterwork yesterday to wish Coach Giancola, Coach O'conner, Coach Agresta and the rest goodluck on Sat, I told G I have never seen so many people on D3football.com route for Montclair before and he started laughing. These boys look ready to go!!! This game is going to be one for the ages...



"Keep Pouding"

Sam Mills

How come you didn't e-mail me? Wouldn't miss this one for the world. See ya at Cortland. 

[RedDragonFan]

2004 is well beyond my experience with CState so I certainly defer to your experience.  I've been following them for the past 4 years and have seen nothing that would earn the current team a rep for being a dirty team.  I've gotten to know Coach Mac pretty well over the past few years and he has way too much respect for the game and opponents to condone anything like that. Coach G no doubt has the same respect so let's sit back and watch the battle unfold!  Been looking forward to this game for some time now and tomorrow will be the slowest day ever!

Can you drink at lunch?  Makes Friday go faster.

Generally frowned upon so will have to wait for the tailgate tomorrow morning.....go CState.

[MSU Pride]

depending on what time we get there, we will def be in the parking lot for a couple beers...

Dave see you there buddy!!!

"Keep Pounding"

Sam Mills

[DanPadavona]

Great article btw on the East...."Will The East Rise Again"

Great article indeed.  Keith nailed all of the key points.  There are too many teams in NY/PA/MA/NJ dividing the talent base, and that includes DII and FCS.  The 100-man roster limits in the NJAC are a killer too.  I don't know how you can possibly overcome schools that have have less competition in their recruiting area and bring in 150-200+ kids every year.

Recall that back when Ithaca was winning NCAA Championships in football, St John Fisher was horrible, Brockport, RPI and Buffalo State were all weak, programs at Hartwick and Utica did not exist.  Ithaca dominated central and western NY recruiting.  Union dominated eastern NY recruiting.  Both those schools went to title games.

Look back at the scores, especially 1988.  Ithaca didn't just beat teams in the championship, they slaughtered them.  Ithaca's 2 toughest games in 1988 were both against Cortland.  The out-of-region teams had no chance to beat them.

I believe strongly that if Brockport and Buffalo State shut down their programs tomorrow, St John Fisher would win a national championship inside of 5 years.  Give the NJAC 150-200 man rosters, shut down William Paterson, Kean and TCNJ, and you'll see a championship at Rowan or Montclair.

It's a numbers game.  Parity rules in our region and that gets you killed in the playoffs.

[clandfan]

I had a text convo with a friend earlier tonight about the topic of the East.  The following were my messages regarding my honest defense of the East that I haven't seen here to this point.  Feel free to debate:

"Well, I think you need to consider two things before you make a final judgment [that the East is weak] there. First, I named you 11 teams generally in the mix for the top 2 spots in the East [Union, RPI, Hobart, SJF, Ithaca, Alfred, Rowan, Montclair, Cortland, DelVal, Lycoming]. Drop Wesley, MUC and UWW. Now name me 10 teams from the other regions that you can make the same claim for.

Second, the East has the fewest Pool A conferences -- 5. One of them is the NEFC. So those 11 teams I named are dispersed only in 4 conferences. This means that we will see no more than 4 undefeated teams here of quality -- and less since they intermix at a high level. The fact that the other regions have so many 9-0 and 10-0 teams tells you two things: there are simply more Pool A conferences in which they are dispersed and they are not crossing over as much against quality OOC teams in their own region.    If that wasn't true, there would be less X-0 teams. I think we have trouble understanding what the numbers DON'T mean as much as we understand what they DO mean. DVC is X-1. Why? Because they took the top South team to the edge. If DVC scheduled Salve Regina instead, they would be X-0. This isn't isolated here (Cortland/Ithaca, Fisher/Hobart, Union/Ithaca, Rowan/Lycoming, Alfred/RPI, etc.). Someone has to lose those games.

I think the issue of roster limits and stuff like they were discussing this week is BS. 100 players is sufficient for a quality, deep team if you have [high quality athletes] across the board. They're just not understanding the issue of their own region's structure (BTW, throw in Springfield in the mix and remember Springfield/Union is a game, too).

[When challenged on the East's strength in the nation] How can SoS numbers look good for East teams if even playing the "quality" teams here involves computing more losses in the equation? We're looking at incomplete numbers right now. The East is at a disadvantage in SoS when the season ends because the intermixing forces more L's in every team's equation. And SoS is the main determining factor for any 1-loss teams surviving the regular season without Pool A bids.

[When it was stated that ADs are taking responsibility for the East's weakness of late] They're trying to take responsibility for things they don't even understand. Look at the NJAC's tiebreaker. OOWP isn't meant for a standalone stat. Yet, that's their 3-way tiebreak?! ADs endorsed that?! They don't understand.

[Still being challenged on depth] Fine, then shift a conference to the East that's in the North or South.  Let's make the playing field level. I bet a lot would change and scheduling would become very odd suddenly compared to what happens now. The East is NOT at level footing.

Name me 11 teams, aside from UWW that, every year, are in the discussion for the top 2 seeds in that bracket (and North and South).  How many of your top teams in other regions intermix in reg season?

[When challenged on why depth means ignoring MUC, WES, and UWW for a moment] No, because DEPTH means number of teams of quality. I'm focusing on depth.

The only team the East's strongest teams get measured against now is MUC. So if we use that as an indicator, sure, the East is awful. But aside from UWW and Wesley, no team from any region challenges MUC. So we have to appraise the East beyond performance in the playoffs -- or grade the North, South and West using the same rationale. But one team in each region is not what defines depth.

It's a more salient debate than I think some people understand when u look at the geography, teams and numbers involved together."

To think that I called Frank a pompous a** a few days ago.  Be that as it may...I think this is an interesting take and right on

[Frank Rossi]

I AM a pompous a**.  I'm not going to deny that, cland.  But I'm equal opportunity in that respect ;-)

That said, I'm sorry that I just don't understand this 100-player roster limit excuse I've been seeing here and in Keith's column.  When was the last time E8 or LL teams fielded 100-man teams?  Just because Mount Union has a couple hundred players, how many actually are:  A) quality athletes that can play consistent football at their position; and B) players that will see the light of day on the field in the real crux of the game? 

I agree that depth is the major difference between teams like Mount Union and the East powerhouses -- however, that depth isn't located in players 101-200.  It's located in players 25-75.  Rowan and Cortland and every other East team can field teams that can go three-deep in depth with some level of strength.  Maybe the talent pool is diluted because of geography and local interest (especially in the State school scenarios), but the roster limit is a red herring that really doesn't aid the debate.  Yet, the NJAC schools are allowed more than 100 players in their camps, like every other school.  They get to see if players 101-150, if they get that much interest, have enough talent to displace players 51-100 in the talent pool.

Most importantly -- and don't ignore this point -- EVERY PLAYOFF TEAM IS PLACED AT LEVEL ROSTER PEGGING.  You can field no more than about 55 players, if memory serves, in the NCAA Playoffs.  Even with injuries, the teams of the NJAC have enough roster spots to field deep playoff teams (in terms of roster strength and depth).

The real problems, as my post focused on from last night, is that the rosters of players in East teams are not getting a fair shake in the playoffs because of the perception of weakness.  The Committee is limiting playoff game access to the teams of the East based on a false perception.  So, those teams are not getting sufficient playoff practice weeks and extra weeks of experience against playoff-caliber teams since the 800lb. gorilla is always looming now (Mount Union) earlier than the Purple Raiders used to appear.  The false perception and the lack of access is a cycle that the East is now caught in -- and this is not going to be resolved by expanding roster limits.  It's going to be resolved by beginning to understand that the current setup of things in Division III has acted as a detriment to the East Region (see my arguments regarding number of automatic qualifying conferences in the East and the OOC scheduling that causes a lack of X-0 teams, for instance).

[rams1102]

Dan & Cland,

Leaving in a few minutes for the game. Looking forward to seeing you dan and hopefully meeting cland for the first time. Good luck to both teams and stay healthy. Look for the guy(gray MSU sweatshirt, gray hair and red MSU hat) with big mouth in the stands at the top of the visitors 50. Had to mix a little red in with the gray.

[rams1102]

OK boys, I said earlier that I felt something special with this team. Keep playing like a team and the rest will take care of itself. Make Sam proud today. 110-60 and "Keep Pounding".

LET'S  GO  MIGHTY  RED  HAWKS  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[catchball]

OK boys keep up the pressure.!!

Score after the 1st qtr  MSU- 6  Cortland - 0

[catchball]

OK boys keep up the pressure.!!

Score after the 1st qtr  MSU- 6  Cortland - 0

Score after 2  MSU - 9  Cortland - 0
Fischer got picked off with about 30 seconds left , maybe could have been another 3.

HARD hitting game !!!   

Hit'em Hawks

[catchball]

OK boys keep up the pressure.!!

Score after the 1st qtr  MSU- 6  Cortland - 0

Score after 2  MSU - 9  Cortland - 0
Fischer got picked off with about 30 seconds left , maybe could have been another 3.

HARD hitting game !!!  

Hit'em Hawks

After 3 stiil MS - 9  Cortland - 0
15 miniutes to go !!!  Go Redhawks !!