FB: New Jersey Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

In fairness, I can't find much difference between any of the teams from #15 to #25.  It's understandable how 1 win or loss can catapult a team 10+ spots.

C'mon Dan...this late in the season?  Why bother with a poll at all if it is that tenuous in week 9.  They dropped 13 spots?  It is a slap in the face to NJAC and Cortland in particular...Cortland beat them....they must really suck.  The poll is what sucks.

Clandfan: Welcome to D3football.com. Feel free to put your own national poll of 25 voters together if you don't like this one. You'll find this job isn't easy. Move outside the East Region boards and you will see many people seeing what Dan said.

I don't think too many people were going to put three NJAC teams in the Top 25. That's the bottom line. Look at the point totals: Rowan 62, Cortland State 62, Montclair State 51. Splitting the NJAC vote, yes? I don't think the NJAC has enough national cred the last few years to demand three Top 25 teams, and with a three-way split there isn't enough support.

Pat: why is it that NJAC has lost National credibility in the last few years?  Is it because TCNJ lost to Mount Union in the Second round in 2007, or because Cortland lost to Mount Union in the Third round in 2008 or is it because Montclair lost to Mount Union in the Second round last year? 

It's not who you lost to. Who'd you beat?

Well...4 Playoff teams to start with.  We have wins against each other.  If I am not mistaken, Montclair had wins against Wesley and Albright a few years ago (and got thumped by Cortland).  there are wins against Lycoming, Wilkes, Ursinus are a few that come to mind.  

With a 10 team league, I am curious who you think we should play?  We (Cortland) have lost 3 in a row to Ithaca...does that mean we are bad or are they good?  

If the "gold standard" is an undefeated team...that will be a rarity in the east.  There are more teams, there is more parity.  NCAA encourages regional competition but wants a National tournament.  Frank Rossi argues some excellent points to this end that I won't do justice to reiterate.   The deck is stacked against the east

Not all playoff teams are created equal. The nation doesn't stand up and take notice when someone beats Maine Maritime or Westfield State, which are the last two non-NJAC teams that Montclair has played, or even Plymouth State or Curry.  There is no reason the East reps can't go undefeated -- that's ridiculous.

[Pat Coleman]

I just don't agree with any of this...First off, the point I was trying to make was, two teams got in from the NJAC before and they both deserved it!!! Regardless if they lost to Ithaca in the playoffs or not...This is an attack against the NJAC and Region, how can you rank MSU 13th, write a piece on the East Rising again, speak about the level of competition in the region with the amount of colleges in the area and no less then 48 hours later have MSU out of the top 25 by losing to a now ranked team and one of the top defenses in the Country by 1 point, who by the way drove down the field in a min for a chance to win the game on a 30 yard field goal...And in addition rank a Rowan team who MSU beat convincingly...

I didn't write the piece, and even if I had, it wouldn't change how I vote.

have MSU out of the top 25 by losing to a now ranked team and one of the top defenses in the Country by 1 point

Ranked No. 24. Not a lot of space to slide Montclair in there, right?

And in addition rank a Rowan team who MSU beat convincingly...

No doubt, but that was a long time ago and I think enough of our voters know what former Top 25 voter JT pointed out earlier about Rowan playing differently than it used to.

[MSU Pride]

What are is ridiculous, that the East reps can't go undefeated in their conference who in their out of conference East Region games?

"Keep Pounding"

Sam Mills

[Pat Coleman]

What are is ridiculous, that the East reps can't go undefeated in their conference who in their out of conference East Region games?

Not quite sure what this is supposed to mean, but basically, if you want to be a top seed, you gotta take care of business. There are only two opponents anyone should think about giving a team that thinks it can make a deep playoff run a free pass for losing to.

[MSU Pride]

sooo your response to me when I said "don't worry two NJAC teams made the playoffs before with a one loss record was" "it was a long time ago" refering to 2001, and your response to me when I said we beat a now ranked Rowan team convincinly, (week two of the 2010 season) when MSU put 27 on a now Ranked Rowan team was "it was a long time ago"? Gotcha, thanks...


"Keep Pounding"

Sam Mills

[MSU Pride]

LOL I actually have no idea what I just wrote...

My question is this, what are you saying is ridiculous??? East reps not going undefeated in their conferences or in their out of Conference games??

[lewdogg11]

I think a better argument is how at the time #19 Alfred lost to RPI, but then beat SJF and came back to 20th.  But a highly ranked MSU lost to a very good Cortland team by 1 and dropped that much.  It's surprising to say the least. 

I think the voters might hold their idea of St. John Fisher a little higher than Cortland which doesn't make all that much sense.

[Pat Coleman]

Both, really. Gotta be undefeated entering the playoffs, with enough tests to make sure you're not blown away by the quality of playoff teams (Case Western Reserve or Trine in recent years, Western Connecticut "a long time ago" in 1999). That's if you want to be good enough to be a top seed or make a playoff run. That's the current standard for top seeds and it's been that way for a few years now.

[dlippiel]

dlip just thinks every East team should schedule cupcakes from here on out so we can have the complete opposite of this discussion in the future.  

[Pat Coleman]

I think a better argument is how at the time #19 Alfred lost to RPI, but then beat SJF and came back to 20th.  But a highly ranked MSU lost to a very good Cortland team by 1 and dropped that much.  It's surprising to say the least. 

It is but I don't think it's unprecedented. Voter confidence in Montclair has clearly been pretty soft, and now, potentially, you "have" to rank two NJAC teams above them. You either have to vote for three NJAC teams or pick and choose which side of the triangle you leave out. No-win situation for a voter to have three 1-loss teams who all split against each other and try to choose where to put them.

[MSU Pride]

And that is my point!!!!!!! There is very good football in the NJAC, Cortland is a very good hard hitting athletic team, same for Rowan, Montclair and Kean...Kean had a DT go to Camp with the Eagles last year for god's sake....All of the qulity athletes are dispersed through these schools now instead of going to Rowan...


"Keep Pounding"

Sam Mills

[MSU Pride]

Let's say for argument sake, Kean upsets Wesley, then how would our conference and strength of schedule be viewed??

[Pat Coleman]

And that is my point!!!!!!! There is very good football in the NJAC, Cortland is a very good hard hitting athletic team, same for Rowan, Montclair and Kean...Kean had a DT go to Camp with the Eagles last year for god's sake....

Many D-III players go to NFL spring rookie camps.

All of the qulity athletes are dispersed through these schools now instead of going to Rowan...

This may be the best point that's been made here. But while the talent may be spread out more, it isn't as high. Remember Rowan wasn't just getting four-year recruits on those talented teams. The Division I bouncebacks were a big piece of that, too. Other teams in the NJAC were still talented, but Keeler's teams got ACC players on top of it.

[Pat Coleman]

Let's say for argument sake, Kean upsets Wesley, then how would our conference and strength of schedule be viewed??

Better. Even Kean playing Wesley down to the wire and losing would show a lot more than Montclair beating Westfield State.

[lewdogg11]

I think a better argument is how at the time #19 Alfred lost to RPI, but then beat SJF and came back to 20th.  But a highly ranked MSU lost to a very good Cortland team by 1 and dropped that much.  It's surprising to say the least.  

It is but I don't think it's unprecedented. Voter confidence in Montclair has clearly been pretty soft, and now, potentially, you "have" to rank two NJAC teams above them. You either have to vote for three NJAC teams or pick and choose which side of the triangle you leave out. No-win situation for a voter to have three 1-loss teams who all split against each other and try to choose where to put them.

I 100% understand and agree on the 3-headed NJAC monster, but Montclair's previous ranking usually would have held more weight.  We've seen teams have pretty bad losses but keep decent poll #'s because of their previous ranking.  It just didn't happen this time, and i'd hardly call this a devastating loss by any means.  Just a different ranking outcome than a lot of people are used to I guess.

-Bless You All