FB: New Jersey Athletic Conference

[skunks_sidekick]

JT.....I expected better.  You have spent enough time talking to, and interacting with Mount fans to know what their issues are with Keeler.  And for ANYONE to say it's because his teams "offered competition"....you must be joking.  Hey.....1999 was a great win for Rowan.  They somehow got done what they had never been able to get done previously. 

The "hate" (and I would guess using that word is a bit much) comes/came from his comments, demeanor, and attitude before, during, and after the Mount/Rowan games.  He acted like an azz!

However......LK doesn't seem to have a problem with him (although in the day he made a few interesting comments about Keeler's statements), and I think everyone can learn from their mistakes and be a better person. 

GO KC.....PLEASE become the Michigan coach!   

[JT]

JT.....I expected better.  You have spent enough time talking to, and interacting with Mount fans to know what their issues are with Keeler.  And for ANYONE to say it's because his teams "offered competition"....you must be joking.  Hey.....1999 was a great win for Rowan.  They somehow got done what they had never been able to get done previously. 

The "hate" (and I would guess using that word is a bit much) comes/came from his comments, demeanor, and attitude before, during, and after the Mount/Rowan games.  He acted like an azz!

However......LK doesn't seem to have a problem with him (although in the day he made a few interesting comments about Keeler's statements), and I think everyone can learn from their mistakes and be a better person. 

GO KC.....PLEASE become the Michigan coach!   

Generally I thought KC was very complementary of the Mount program after losses.  I'm not about to go digging for articles.  I also don't think his pregame comments were bad. 

I know there was an issue at the first Stagg game in 1993.  I heard that some of the Rowan players may have made fun of the "smaller" MUC team at the banquet (or something to that affect).  That was certainly out of line, but I don't recall anything else out of the ordinary in the years that followed.

BTW what did LK say about KC's comments back in the day?

[Knightstalker]

JT, in 93 most of the players would still have been Buntings recruits not KC's if I am not mistaken.

[mandfense]

I like going to the OAC page, you express an opinion that is against the consensous and you take karma hits.  For a bunch of people who probably never met or even tried to talk to KC Keeler they sure hate him.  Ohitians, go figure.

Well, I've never met Keeler but did try to talk to him (luckily, the refs held me back), and I still hate him.   

[JT]

I like going to the OAC page, you express an opinion that is against the consensous and you take karma hits.  For a bunch of people who probably never met or even tried to talk to KC Keeler they sure hate him.  Ohitians, go figure.

Well, I've never met Keeler but did try to talk to him (luckily, the refs held me back), and I still hate him.   

That was you 

[mandfense]

I like going to the OAC page, you express an opinion that is against the consensous and you take karma hits.  For a bunch of people who probably never met or even tried to talk to KC Keeler they sure hate him.  Ohitians, go figure.

Well, I've never met Keeler but did try to talk to him (luckily, the refs held me back), and I still hate him.   

That was you 

You make it sound like I was the only opposing player who wanted to have a "conversation" with Keeler during a game, JT.   

[phil]

MUC falls. Great story with Beaver for WW. It's time for some of the smug posters from MUC to experience "the ride" back home from Salem after a "L".

And we should also support folks like Coke, Sprint, NASDAQ, etc. who had the guts to spend a part of their media budget for the DIII championship game!!!

[JT]

MUC falls. Great story with Beaver for WW. It's time for some of the smug posters from MUC to experience "the ride" back home from Salem after a "L".

And we should also support folks like Coke, Sprint, NASDAQ, etc. who had the guts to spend a part of their media budget for the DIII championship game!!!

Mike & the Maddog pissed me off on the ride home Thursday.  They said there wasn't any college football worth watching this weekend unless App St. and Delware are your cup of tea.  Both the DII and DIII games were great.

[phil]

McCullough, a Michigan native, first learned about Mount Union's program after watching a playoff game on ESPN. Talented wide receiver Pierre Garcon is one of 17 Florida natives listed on the roster.

"I think all of us in Division III want to try and recruit the young men that Division II schools are considering offering a scholarship to," Kehres said. "I can't think of a guy who had a complete offer from Division II who didn't take it. But we want to be right on the edge of Division II recruiting."

Mount Union began mining Florida for talent several years ago. Kehres sends coaches to that state each spring to find players who were overlooked.

"There are more good players than there are scholarships," said Vince Kehres, son of the head coach and a current Mount Union assistant.

The above quote came from an article written just before MUC won their semifinal game.

Now we know why William Paterson doesn't win national championships. How many state schools send their coaches to the Sunshine State on the taxpayer's dime to be "right on the edge of Division II recruiting". Toss in financial aid at one of the least expensive private schools in the OAC and a disproportionate number of football players making up the student body and you have a recipe for success before a coach as good as Kehres Sr. goes to work.

Is this what the rest of DIII should be doing to compete with MUC? Or have we tread a little too close to DII? I can't really answer this, but in a perfect world, just what is the spirit of DIII when it comes to building a football program?

[Frank Rossi]

McCullough, a Michigan native, first learned about Mount Union's program after watching a playoff game on ESPN. Talented wide receiver Pierre Garcon is one of 17 Florida natives listed on the roster.

"I think all of us in Division III want to try and recruit the young men that Division II schools are considering offering a scholarship to," Kehres said. "I can't think of a guy who had a complete offer from Division II who didn't take it. But we want to be right on the edge of Division II recruiting."

Mount Union began mining Florida for talent several years ago. Kehres sends coaches to that state each spring to find players who were overlooked.

"There are more good players than there are scholarships," said Vince Kehres, son of the head coach and a current Mount Union assistant.

The above quote came from an article written just before MUC won their semifinal game.

Now we know why William Paterson doesn't win national championships. How many state schools send their coaches to the Sunshine State on the taxpayer's dime to be "right on the edge of Division II recruiting". Toss in financial aid at one of the least expensive private schools in the OAC and a disproportionate number of football players making up the student body and you have a recipe for success before a coach as good as Kehres Sr. goes to work.

Is this what the rest of DIII should be doing to compete with MUC? Or have we tread a little too close to DII? I can't really answer this, but in a perfect world, just what is the spirit of DIII when it comes to building a football program?

MANY schools have been recruiting in Florida, California, Louisiana, Texas and Pennsylvania, Phil, for quite some time -- in fact, more are doing it today since the advent of the Internet and its usefulness in recruiting.  I truly believe this is the reason for much of the parity we began to see this year -- schools that did this earlier than others seemed to have a true advantage in their W/L records until the rest of the pack caught up with them.

['gro]

There's a simple line between DII and DIII and that's athletic aid, and DIII don't offer it.  So I'm guessing that the phrase "right on the edge of DII recruiting" means convincing the guys that might get partial scholarship or attempt to walk on in hopes of some aid to go to a DIII school and receive need based aid (which in many cases is a good aid package).

[Frank Rossi]

There's a simple line between DII and DIII and that's athletic aid, and DIII don't offer it.  So I'm guessing that the phrase "right on the edge of DII recruiting" means convincing the guys that might get partial scholarship or attempt to walk on in hopes of some aid to go to a DIII school and receive need based aid (which in many cases is a good aid package).

Taken a step further, I don't know of any school that doesn't attempt to put together the best packaging possible based on the knowledge they have of an individual student's situation and potential schools to try to lure the student-athlete WITH THE RESOURCES THE SCHOOL IS ALLOWED TO OFFER.  D3 is pretty restricted in that category, but there are things that schools and coaches can do well inside the rules -- and LK's comments don't smell like anything but him playing by the set of rules he's been given.  Nobody has ever questioned MUC's packaging or recruiting from the best of my knowledge, and it's actually a positive that other schools want to see the success MUC has enjoyed over the last decade+.  Otherwise, everyone would be going 4-5, 5-5 or 5-4 at the end of each season based on no teams going the extra mile in recruiting.

[phil]

If you look at the rosters of TCNJ, Montclair, Rowan, Paterson, Kean and Cortland they combine for nine out of state players out of roughly 550 roster spots. The out of state players come from neighboring states. Only Cortland has a player from Florida. He's a kicker. I left Western Conn. out of the mix because they have quite a few players from New York on their roster — and one or two from Mass., Vt, and NJ.

Interesting to note that it costs roughly the same for an out of state student to attend state school TCNJ as it does private Mount Union. I would also expect a Mount Union aid package to blow away a state aid package. Which leads me to understand the need for pricier private schools like RPI, Union, Hobart, etc. to look well out of state and provide the best packages possible. In my mind though, Mount Union still has a combination of price, aid packages, tradition, and aggressive out of region recruiting that very few DIII football programs can equal.

[JT]

If you look at the rosters of TCNJ, Montclair, Rowan, Paterson, Kean and Cortland they combine for nine out of state players out of roughly 550 roster spots. The out of state players come from neighboring states. Only Cortland has a player from Florida. He's a kicker. I left Western Conn. out of the mix because they have quite a few players from New York on their roster — and one or two from Mass., Vt, and NJ.

Interesting to note that it costs roughly the same for an out of state student to attend state school TCNJ as it does private Mount Union. I would also expect a Mount Union aid package to blow away a state aid package. Which leads me to understand the need for pricier private schools like RPI, Union, Hobart, etc. to look well out of state and provide the best packages possible. In my mind though, Mount Union still has a combination of price, aid packages, tradition, and aggressive out of region recruiting that very few DIII football programs can equal.

They have some of the best resources, as far as a stadium, new press box, top of line video equipment, practice equipment, and probably a nice recruiting budget.  It would be interesting to find out how many of the Mount football players pay under 20K in tuition, put them in state school area fee wise.

[Pat Coleman]

Is this what the rest of DIII should be doing to compete with MUC? Or have we tread a little too close to DII? I can't really answer this, but in a perfect world, just what is the spirit of DIII when it comes to building a football program?

Mount Union was hardly the first to this concept.