MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[y_jack_lok]

I saw Webster at Wash U...   again, very disappointing.... where was any resemblance of a reasonable offensive set...  I swear the only person I saw moving without the ball most of the night was Cody Bradfisch...Everyone else was wild *ss one on one to the hoop and throw it up crazy because Wash U defenders were there...  as bad as I've seen a Webster team in a long time.. sure, some of it was the competition, as Wash U is pretty darned good, but it shouldn't mean abandon the offense that's been taught for playground style ball possessions....

Actually, you saw Wash U at Webster.

Yes, it was a disappointing game for Webster and some of these observations have merit. But I think it is an somewhat harsh assessment of Webster and does not give Wash U enough credit. Wash U is VERY GOOD. They start three guys who are 6-5, 6-6, and 6-7 then drop to 6-3 and 6-1. Webster has a 6-6 starter then drops to 6-3, 6-2, 6-1 and 5-10. It's possible for shorter teams to beat taller teams if the shorter team has better players, but that was certainly not the case last night. Wash U was disciplined in every phase of the game. Personally, I think this is the best Wash U team in the four years since they won national championships and it would not surprise me to see them in Salem in March.

[hopefan]

I saw Webster at Wash U...   again, very disappointing.... where was any resemblance of a reasonable offensive set...  I swear the only person I saw moving without the ball most of the night was Cody Bradfisch...Everyone else was wild *ss one on one to the hoop and throw it up crazy because Wash U defenders were there...  as bad as I've seen a Webster team in a long time.. sure, some of it was the competition, as Wash U is pretty darned good, but it shouldn't mean abandon the offense that's been taught for playground style ball possessions....

Actually, you saw Wash U at Webster.

Yes, it was a disappointing game for Webster and some of these observations have merit. But I think it is an somewhat harsh assessment of Webster and does not give Wash U enough credit. Wash U is VERY GOOD. They start three guys who are 6-5, 6-6, and 6-7 then drop to 6-3 and 6-1. Webster has a 6-6 starter then drops to 6-3, 6-2, 6-1 and 5-10. It's possible for shorter teams to beat taller teams if the shorter team has better players, but that was certainly not the case last night. Wash U was disciplined in every phase of the game. Personally, I think this is the best Wash U team in the four years since they won national championships and it would not surprise me to see them in Salem in March.

My point is, Webster wasn't....

[y_jack_lok]

I agree with your point and I'm not surprised that you picked up on the word "discipline". After I posted I realized I wanted to say even more about how good I think Wash U is. Their skill, in addition to discipline, in all phases of the game made it extremely tough for Webster to execute its offense. And Webster made a number of good defensive plays that against lesser teams would have resulted in points, but Wash U was able to disrupt the opportunities. And yes, Webster blew some of those chances all by themselves also.

[hopefan]

The game (or boxscore) of real interest was Eureka losing to North Park by 17...Let's remember that Eureka beat North Park last year .. well when we last saw Eureka, returning from their 50 point loss to Spalding, they were missing Mark Lessen, and we knew that Dustin Fritsch was hurting...  Now the NP-EC box score shows that Riviera did not play, Misuraca did not play, and Jordan Kindred still doesn't start and gets 13 minutes going 1-7....  To begin with, I TOLD YOU HE SHOULDN'T PLAY FOOTBALL!  But WHAT is going on?   I can only hope we're dealing with light injuries and that this club can come back solid in January, but with the club that played and performed versus North Park, I almost think that they drop into the group of non contenders with Fontbonne, BC and PC...  I hope not, but they need to get it back.  Also remember what I said about depth, Eureka's lack of it... I'm not being too bold to say that with 3 starters out, that lack of depth (solid replacements) isn't helping the situation.

Throw out last year's NPU @ Eureka game, which was probably the worst game that that dismal Vikings team played last season, because it doesn't mean anything anymore. Also, NPU is pretty thin itself in terms of roster depth. And the Vikings have almost no size to speak of, either.

Eureka had high hopes coming into this season.  They returned all 5 starters from a squad with a winning record last year and brought in a couple pieces they thought would help this year.

Here is what i have heard on Lessen's ankle: after further tests the 2nd set of x-rays came back negative and it is just a sprain.  hopefully he will be back in 2 weeks or so. 

Jordan Kindred has a bad case of strep throat and thats the reason he only played 13 min last night.  injuries had nothing to do with it. (i've heard enough about the football talk.  if you have seen him this year he is just as quick and has added about 10lbs of muscle) 

Dustin Fritsch is also battling some type of lower body injury (i think it may be an ankle as well).

Chuck Misuraca didn't play due to a back injury. 

Rivera is not injured his DNP is disciplinary

Injuries/illness to 4 of Eureka's key 7 or 8 guys could explain why EC is struggling right now.  I know teams need to overcome adversity but in Eureka's case i dont think they have the firepower beyond their first 7 or 8 to do so. 

If this team gets healthy around the new year i'd look for them to be a top team in the SLIAC again and the games they lost  vs macmurray and north park IMO would have had different outcomes had the red devils been full strength.

hopefully santa claus will be good to EC and get everyone healthy in time for conf to start up again...

As I said in the CCIW room, NPU's had injury woes of its own. The 6'8 center of the Vikings, former D1 scholarship player Mike Gabriel, hurt his knee in preseason and is likely out for the year. His backup, 6'7 Nate Rummel, has been out with knee issues of his own. The Vikings are currently playing a wing, 6'6 Mark Holmes, at the center spot, and a shooting guard, Zach Cassita, at the point. (The new head coach was hired at the end of May, which means that the coaching staff's opportunities to bring in new players was pretty limited.) Put a healthy Gabriel and Rummel alongside Cassita, Holmes, Aaron Weaver, Chris Benjamin, etc., and the Vikings still win easily against a fully healthy Eureka squad.

Greg, your writings seem to imply that I or the Eureka reps were intent on demeaning North Park... I don't think that's the case.. rather it's to show that the current state of Eureka basketball has fallen off the D3 cliff from last year.. this was not expected with a starting five returning that beat NP last year... that was a reference point that was fittingly used...  with 2 starters from that group not dressed (Riviera, Lessen), one hardly playing due to strep throat (Kindred), and one playing injured (Fritsch), and a new starter not playing (Misuraca), Eureka started 3 people who had never started before, and who had played only sparingly this year....I'd been saying all preseason that depth was Eureka's problem ... I'm surprised NP didn't win by 30.. you'll note that with that inexperienced group, I moved them down to the bottom 4 of the SLIAC  (and that's not good)... with their normal players, they're a contender for the league crown, and at the very least evenly matched with the group NP put on the floor the other night. 

[WUPHF]

Personally, I think this is the best Wash U team in the four years since they won national championships and it would not surprise me to see them in Salem in March.

Probably not as good as the 24-3 (13-1 UAA) 2009-2010 squad, but we will have a better idea on Saturday evening.

I did expect more from Webster after that exhibition match against the University of Central Missouri.  Exhibitions are not always good indicators, but the 10 point first half lead and close finish does suggest that Webster has more to offer than what was on display on Wednesday.

[GC Panther 01]

GC hosting a nice little weekend tourney this weekend, featuring Mid-Continent from western KY, Millikin, and Missouri Baptist.

GC leads off hosting Mid-Continent at 8pm tonight.

[y_jack_lok]

Personally, I think this is the best Wash U team in the four years since they won national championships and it would not surprise me to see them in Salem in March.

Probably not as good as the 24-3 (13-1 UAA) 2009-2010 squad, but we will have a better idea on Saturday evening.

I did expect more from Webster after that exhibition match against the University of Central Missouri.  Exhibitions are not always good indicators, but the 10 point first half lead and close finish does suggest that Webster has more to offer than what was on display on Wednesday.

I think it's hard to compare the 09-10 Wash U team with the 12-13 Wash U team just as it is hard to compare the 09-10 Webster team with the 12-13 Webster team. The strengths of both rosters come from different sources on the court and different elements of the game. It certainly seems to me that the 12-13 Wash U team is better defensively than the 09-10 Wash U team. But I'm old and my memory isn't that great. I'm really going off the names on the rosters, their class year, etc. as much as off what I recall of how well either of the 09-10 teams played. Webster finished 13-13 that year.

I would imagine this Wash U team might beat Central Missouri.

[hopefan]

GC hosting a nice little weekend tourney this weekend, featuring Mid-Continent from western KY, Millikin, and Missouri Baptist.

GC leads off hosting Mid-Continent at 8pm tonight.

Unfortunately this is not a Tourney format... tonite, Gville vs Mid Continent, Millikin vs Mo Bap...  tomorrow Gville plays Mo Bap, Millikin plays Mid Continent.....  I personally would have liked to see Millikin vs Greenville

[Gregory Sager]

The game (or boxscore) of real interest was Eureka losing to North Park by 17...Let's remember that Eureka beat North Park last year .. well when we last saw Eureka, returning from their 50 point loss to Spalding, they were missing Mark Lessen, and we knew that Dustin Fritsch was hurting...  Now the NP-EC box score shows that Riviera did not play, Misuraca did not play, and Jordan Kindred still doesn't start and gets 13 minutes going 1-7....  To begin with, I TOLD YOU HE SHOULDN'T PLAY FOOTBALL!  But WHAT is going on?   I can only hope we're dealing with light injuries and that this club can come back solid in January, but with the club that played and performed versus North Park, I almost think that they drop into the group of non contenders with Fontbonne, BC and PC...  I hope not, but they need to get it back.  Also remember what I said about depth, Eureka's lack of it... I'm not being too bold to say that with 3 starters out, that lack of depth (solid replacements) isn't helping the situation.

Throw out last year's NPU @ Eureka game, which was probably the worst game that that dismal Vikings team played last season, because it doesn't mean anything anymore. Also, NPU is pretty thin itself in terms of roster depth. And the Vikings have almost no size to speak of, either.

Eureka had high hopes coming into this season.  They returned all 5 starters from a squad with a winning record last year and brought in a couple pieces they thought would help this year.

Here is what i have heard on Lessen's ankle: after further tests the 2nd set of x-rays came back negative and it is just a sprain.  hopefully he will be back in 2 weeks or so. 

Jordan Kindred has a bad case of strep throat and thats the reason he only played 13 min last night.  injuries had nothing to do with it. (i've heard enough about the football talk.  if you have seen him this year he is just as quick and has added about 10lbs of muscle) 

Dustin Fritsch is also battling some type of lower body injury (i think it may be an ankle as well).

Chuck Misuraca didn't play due to a back injury. 

Rivera is not injured his DNP is disciplinary

Injuries/illness to 4 of Eureka's key 7 or 8 guys could explain why EC is struggling right now.  I know teams need to overcome adversity but in Eureka's case i dont think they have the firepower beyond their first 7 or 8 to do so. 

If this team gets healthy around the new year i'd look for them to be a top team in the SLIAC again and the games they lost  vs macmurray and north park IMO would have had different outcomes had the red devils been full strength.

hopefully santa claus will be good to EC and get everyone healthy in time for conf to start up again...

As I said in the CCIW room, NPU's had injury woes of its own. The 6'8 center of the Vikings, former D1 scholarship player Mike Gabriel, hurt his knee in preseason and is likely out for the year. His backup, 6'7 Nate Rummel, has been out with knee issues of his own. The Vikings are currently playing a wing, 6'6 Mark Holmes, at the center spot, and a shooting guard, Zach Cassita, at the point. (The new head coach was hired at the end of May, which means that the coaching staff's opportunities to bring in new players was pretty limited.) Put a healthy Gabriel and Rummel alongside Cassita, Holmes, Aaron Weaver, Chris Benjamin, etc., and the Vikings still win easily against a fully healthy Eureka squad.

Greg, your writings seem to imply that I or the Eureka reps were intent on demeaning North Park... I don't think that's the case.. rather it's to show that the current state of Eureka basketball has fallen off the D3 cliff from last year.. this was not expected with a starting five returning that beat NP last year... that was a reference point that was fittingly used...  with 2 starters from that group not dressed (Riviera, Lessen), one hardly playing due to strep throat (Kindred), and one playing injured (Fritsch), and a new starter not playing (Misuraca), Eureka started 3 people who had never started before, and who had played only sparingly this year....I'd been saying all preseason that depth was Eureka's problem ... I'm surprised NP didn't win by 30.. you'll note that with that inexperienced group, I moved them down to the bottom 4 of the SLIAC  (and that's not good)... with their normal players, they're a contender for the league crown, and at the very least evenly matched with the group NP put on the floor the other night.

You're only considering the Eureka half of the equation. NPU has a very thin roster in terms of CCIW-quality players, and there's little or no size left without Gabriel and Rummel. But the Vikings are still better than last year's NPU team in terms of raw talent. Aaron Weaver, Zach Cassita, and Chris Benjamin are a step up from the guys who were lost from last season's team, and Ryan Hyrn is the best shooter that the Vikes have had in quite a while. NPU should have won by thirty; I think that the game had a hard time holding their interest once they got up big early.

I wouldn't hesitate to take NPU in its own gym against a healthy Eureka team.

[y_jack_lok]

I see Wheaton had no trouble with Westminster last night.

[y_jack_lok]

SLIAC teams go 0-4 yesterday (still no result for Blackburn @ Dubuque), but Mac come close against D2 McKendree.

[hopefan]

SLIAC teams go 0-4 yesterday (still no result for Blackburn @ Dubuque), but Mac come close against D2 McKendree.

Make it 0-5... Dubuque 89  Blackburn 40..

Yjak, I don't think I have a prayer on Jan 5 in the BC-Prin matchup....

[hopefan]

WOW... very nice win for Westminster vs Coe last night... 74-58.. Westmin had a double digit lead the whole 2nd half.. it was never close....    I DO like to do a little comparative scores viewing, and that is what makes this win, and the margin, so impressive... Coe beat CCIW Carthage 70-63 just 3 days ago, and in the first week of the season lost to Ill Wesleyan by one and beat Millikin by 7....   This is a heck of a recovery for Westmin after being beat badly at Wheaton.  Westmin shot well, and they got a big game from Verdis Lee, who finished with 24...  nice thing about Westmin is that thay are going to keep the score low, and they have a four headed monster on offense.. James, Tolson, Prophet, and Lee are all capable of going over 20 points, it's just a matter of getting the ball to the guy with the hot hand.

The 0-6 weekend was tough to see, but it was obvious going in that SLIAC teams would be tested in each of those games... in reality, the only game that appeared to be a given loss was the blackburn at Dubuque game.. Dubuque was 7-1... poor BC is really hitting rock bottom.. The rest of those games, as I thought, were winnable, but the SLIAC just didn't get it done....
Looking at the box scores

Webster loses to Elmhurst 87-70 just a couple days after westmin won close over Elmhurst...Webster turns the ball over 21 times (6 from Roman Robinson and 3 from Ahmad Smith) and gets beat on the boards, giving up 14 offensive bounds to Elmhurst.. those stats likely had much to do with the loss.  Aaron Griffin continued his steady play in the middle going 4 for 5  from the field and getting 7 bounds, but the remainder of the minutes in the middle given to Huskey and Williams netted only 2 boards...Cody Bradfish had a nice shooting night finishing 7 for 10, 19 points, Robinson finished with 17.  Nice to see Frosh guard Jordan Roland get real minutes and a couple of hoops..I see him as the point guard of the future for the Gorlocks.

Spalding lost to Indiana SE 94-82....  Dewhon McAfee finished with 39, but he threw up 27 shots, 12 from 3 point land to get those 39... 11-11 from Ft line.... i wondered aloud whether McAfee's return would be a smooth one as minutes for others would diminish... as well as the roles others were playing last year.. I still wonder... Jametrius Brasheers' numbers have collapsed the last couple of games... he averaged 13 points and 8 boards last year.. he's down to 8 points and 5 boards this year.. Tyler St Julian averged 10ppg last year, 4 this year... I don't know, just reading the stats..on the other hand, McAfee's stats are great... 46% from the field, 40% from 3's 25 ppg, chipping in 4 rbds per game, and turnovers are minimal... maybe the rest of the guys have to adapt better..

to be continued

[hopefan]

continuing on.. Greenville loses 2 on its home court to pretty good non NCAA teams, giving up 80 and 105... to give up that many, you have to score alot, and Greenville is coming up short...Todd Albertson has a double double coming off the bench against Mid continent, but Gville goes 5-26 from 3's and takes a beating...  Mumphard and Anderson shoot alot, rollins and Metzler don't..they both seem like pretty competent big men.. should they be seeing the ball more? The second night Gville loses close to Mo Bap.. Albertson gets the start and goes for another double double, but 3 point shooting is weak again.. VERY telling stat... at home.. Greenville goes 6for 9 from FT line, Mo Bap goes 18-34...  That REALLY says Gville needs to take the ball to the hole more.. you don't get fouled if you're just shooting jump shots.....

Mac must have played a tremendous game against McKendree.. knowing how hard Coach Creal works at a game, I'll bet he was exhausted at the end of this one...I'm seeing some problems after seeing Mac's game with Westmin and seeing the box score... Looks to me like the guy I expected to see score 20 a game and 10 rbs/game doesn't yet want to bang with the hard nosed guys.... last 10 minutes of the westmin game, Whitlock usually gave the ball up when he saw it... game with McKendree he gets 6 shot attempts... maybe only playing 17 minutes will get Coach's message into his head....  looks like Brady Slagle is getting 'it' back.. 13 points no turnovers.. Spencer Pratt gets 13 points in 23 minutes.. sorry, more PT is needed for him..... and if THE shooter isn't hitting, maybe that time decreases. Also, I haven't seen frosh Kelter do anything but push the ball up the court faster than anyone else does, and with good vision...  man, him, Guthrie, Pratt together.. I'd love it....  NOT to take away from Cody Best either.... 

CANNOT miss Augie at Mac on Sunday afternoon... the activity in the two Coach's boxes alone will be worth the trip!!!

[hopefan]

FYI for the D3 educated SLIAC fans

Massey ratings out of 411 D3 schools

Westminster  122  as of yesterday, now up to 95 today with win over Coe
Spalding     191
Webster 204
MacMurray   224
Greenville    290
Eureka    321
Fontbonne   363
Blackburn   405
Principia   406