MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

I've been tied up with some family business all day... great writeup from EC Red, and shocking (to me) news from the old guy (former 40  ).. I hope he's right....

Westminster - Mac... both need a win badly in THIS game... but I have to stay close to home tomorrow, so I'll see the other big game Eureka at Webster...

[hopefan]

Why hopefan standings are a good measure.. and why the Mac-Westmin game is critical...

IF each of the contenders (Spalding, Eureka, Webster, Mac, Westmin), win their remaining games against non contenders (Font, GC, BC, PC) AND win their remaining HOME games against contenders.. standings would finish

Spalding 14-2  has at Webster;   MAC and Westmin home     remaining 
Webster 13-3   NO MORE away vs contender   Eureka, Westmin home remaining
Mac       12-4   has at Spalding; Westmin, Eureka home remaining
Eureka    11-5   has at Webster, at Westmin, at Mac remaining
Westmin  10-6   has at Mac, at Webster, at Spalding;  Eureka home remaining

of course any losses vs noncontenders hurt HUGE, but no one has yet lost to a non contender..
from the above, it is CRITICAL for Westmin to win on the road, particularly today vs Mac... if not, the Eureka at Westmin game could be huge if Eureka fails to win at Webster and at Mac...   just as big is Mac Must win at home vs Westmin and Eureka

VERY INTERESTING

[y_jack_lok]

  just as big is Mac Must win at home vs Webster and eureka

Don't you mean vs Westmin and Eureka?

[hopefan]

  just as big is Mac Must win at home vs Webster and eureka

Don't you mean vs Westmin and Eureka?

Thanks... correction made

[WU FAN]

Big win today for the Gorloks as they take down Eureka 75-68.  Hopefan you've gotta love a 3 way tie for 2nd.  Game was back and forth for about the first 30 minutes.  No one really wanted to step out and take control but once Webster did there was no looking back.  The Red Devils are lucky they have Lessen because he's the only real basketball player they've got.  Very nice 30 points which kept Eureka in it.  He looked like a man against boys and had his way against the undersized Gorlok "big" men.  Put him on the roster of any of the other contenders in the conference and the SLIAC might finally have a team that could compete in the NCAA opening round.  Sadly he's just 1 man and superior all around athleticism wins out many times as it did today.  Webster now on a 5 game win streak and the look to be heating up at just the right time.

[ecreddevils]

  The Red Devils are lucky they have Lessen because he's the only real basketball player they've got.  Very nice 30 points which kept Eureka in it.  He looked like a man against boys and had his way against the undersized Gorlok "big" men.  Put him on the roster of any of the other contenders in the conference and the SLIAC might finally have a team that could compete in the NCAA opening round.  Sadly he's just 1 man and superior all around athleticism wins out many times as it did today.  Webster now on a 5 game win streak and the look to be heating up at just the right time.

That's an ignorant, garbage comment.  Fritsch is very talented (maybe you weren't at the Webster loss @ EC when he went 22/10) and all of the other starters for EC are strong players.  For you to suggest that EC is a one-man team and the other top three teams are superior at 1-4 is totally ridiculous.  Perhaps you also missed last week when our inferior athleticism got lucky and toppled the most "superior" athletic team in the conference, Spalding, something you guys didn't come close to doing.   Lessen is a difference maker for sure, but this is a talented team through the top seven guys.  Apologies for the negative tone of this post, but I'm really offended that you'd diss our guys like that.

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ Gotta agree w/ecreddevils. Were it not for 10 of 11 free throw shooting by Webster in the final 2:10 of the game who knows what might have happened. And I think Webster played pretty smart for the final 8 or so minutes.

[hopefan]

With Westminster's critical OT win at Mac...

Revised hopefan standings

Spalding +2  (won at Westminster) (won at Mac)
Webster +1   (lost at home vs Mac) (won at Westminster) (won at Mac)
Mac -1  (won at Eureka) (won at Webster) (lost at home to Spalding) (lost at home to Webster) (lost at home to Westmin)
Eureka  -1  (lost at home vs Mac)
Westmin  -1  (lost at home vs Spalding)  (lost at home vs Webster) (won at Mac)

only 1 game on Wednesday between contenders... Westmin at Webster....   Big opportunity game for Westmin... note that if Westmin can get a win, a REAL logjam in hopefan standings....

and notice Fontbonne gives Spalding a heck of a game, lose 83-79... and Fontbonne went 15-29 from the line.. Gentry gets 25, but goes 8-16 from line...  and McAfee goes 4 for 17 from the field, 0-4 from 3's!!!


Perhaps WU fan hasn't seen Eureka until today, certainly a wrong impression of Eureka's talent level...  BUT, Coach Bunch has struck again.. Webster is playing very well.. Quality games today from Huskey, Zehner, heck, just about everyone that played....

[WU FAN]

  The Red Devils are lucky they have Lessen because he's the only real basketball player they've got.  Very nice 30 points which kept Eureka in it.  He looked like a man against boys and had his way against the undersized Gorlok "big" men.  Put him on the roster of any of the other contenders in the conference and the SLIAC might finally have a team that could compete in the NCAA opening round.  Sadly he's just 1 man and superior all around athleticism wins out many times as it did today.  Webster now on a 5 game win streak and the look to be heating up at just the right time.

That's an ignorant, garbage comment.  Fritsch is very talented (maybe you weren't at the Webster loss @ EC when he went 22/10) and all of the other starters for EC are strong players.  For you to suggest that EC is a one-man team and the other top three teams are superior at 1-4 is totally ridiculous.  Perhaps you also missed last week when our inferior athleticism got lucky and toppled the most "superior" athletic team in the conference, Spalding, something you guys didn't come close to doing.   Lessen is a difference maker for sure, but this is a talented team through the top seven guys.  Apologies for the negative tone of this post, but I'm really offended that you'd diss our guys like that.

I will admit this is the first time I've seen Eureka play this year and more than likely will be the last.  I do know that the argument regarding Spalding proves my point.  Without Lessen Eureka loses to Spalding by 44....yes 44 points.  With him they win by 4.  You can talk about Fritsch all you want (12 points in 2 games vs. Spalding???  that's supposed the be star power???  Lessen scored 20 in 1 game), and his cumulative stats would say he's a nice player, but he's not even in the same realm as Lessen who scores over 27% of his teams points and pulls down over 23% of his teams rebounds.  Shoot he even accounts for 2/3 of the teams blocked shots.  It can easily be argued that no one else in the conference means as much to their team as Lessen does to Eureka.  With him Eureka is 11-4.  Without 0-3.  With they average 75.8 ppg.  Without 57.  ecreddevils I'm giving you guys credit here for having a terrific player.  The stats from the games with Lessen vs. without him prove Eureka is a different team depending upon his availability.  As for the win over Spalding.....be patient.......Eureka lost to them by 44 in round 1 and Webster has only been given a single go so far.  We'll see where everything stands when the dust settles in a few weeks.

[ecreddevils]

  The Red Devils are lucky they have Lessen because he's the only real basketball player they've got.  Very nice 30 points which kept Eureka in it.  He looked like a man against boys and had his way against the undersized Gorlok "big" men.  Put him on the roster of any of the other contenders in the conference and the SLIAC might finally have a team that could compete in the NCAA opening round.  Sadly he's just 1 man and superior all around athleticism wins out many times as it did today.  Webster now on a 5 game win streak and the look to be heating up at just the right time.

That's an ignorant, garbage comment.  Fritsch is very talented (maybe you weren't at the Webster loss @ EC when he went 22/10) and all of the other starters for EC are strong players.  For you to suggest that EC is a one-man team and the other top three teams are superior at 1-4 is totally ridiculous.  Perhaps you also missed last week when our inferior athleticism got lucky and toppled the most "superior" athletic team in the conference, Spalding, something you guys didn't come close to doing.   Lessen is a difference maker for sure, but this is a talented team through the top seven guys.  Apologies for the negative tone of this post, but I'm really offended that you'd diss our guys like that.

I will admit this is the first time I've seen Eureka play this year and more than likely will be the last.  I do know that the argument regarding Spalding proves my point.  Without Lessen Eureka loses to Spalding by 44....yes 44 points.  With him they win by 4.  You can talk about Fritsch all you want (12 points in 2 games vs. Spalding???  that's supposed the be star power???  Lessen scored 20 in 1 game), and his cumulative stats would say he's a nice player, but he's not even in the same realm as Lessen who scores over 27% of his teams points and pulls down over 23% of his teams rebounds.  Shoot he even accounts for 2/3 of the teams blocked shots.  It can easily be argued that no one else in the conference means as much to their team as Lessen does to Eureka.  With him Eureka is 11-4.  Without 0-3.  With they average 75.8 ppg.  Without 57.  ecreddevils I'm giving you guys credit here for having a terrific player.  The stats from the games with Lessen vs. without him prove Eureka is a different team depending upon his availability.  As for the win over Spalding.....be patient.......Eureka lost to them by 44 in round 1 and Webster has only been given a single go so far.  We'll see where everything stands when the dust settles in a few weeks.

Your argument lacks context.  Fritsch is a great player--the Spalding loss is meaningless. That was a low point for the team this year in a lot of ways, not just having Lessen out-- this is a different ball club since the winter break.  Also, I believe Fritsch was playing injured in that Spalding game, and as I'm sure your statistical analysis noted, only logged 14 minutes due to that injury.  Averaging 14/8 despite multiple injuries this year is very solid. That said, Lessen is clearly a huge cog in the EC wheel. He's made himself into a beast in this league through hard work in the weight room and practice room.  But, this is not a one man show.  Our guard play is very strong and a role player like DT Thornton is as important as any bench player in the league. 

[hopefan]

 

Your argument lacks context.  Fritsch is a great player--the Spalding loss is meaningless. That was a low point for the team this year in a lot of ways, not just having Lessen out-- this is a different ball club since the winter break.  Also, I believe Fritsch was playing injured in that Spalding game, and as I'm sure your statistical analysis noted, only logged 14 minutes due to that injury.  Averaging 14/8 despite multiple injuries this year is very solid. That said, Lessen is clearly a huge cog in the EC wheel. He's made himself into a beast in this league through hard work in the weight room and practice room.  But, this is not a one man show.  Our guard play is very strong and a role player like DT Thornton is as important as any bench player in the league.

I would agree with most of this statement from ECred.. but here's my take on things:

1) In defense of WUfan, EVERYONE on Eureka's team was shut down yesterday but Lessen... if this is the only time he's seen them, the negative impressions left on him are understandable..

2) Nailor and Riviera are high quality good sized guards... I've seen both take control of games and DOMINATE... this is the first time I've seen both have 'off' games

3) Despite, Miseraca's great game against Spalding, I've not been sold on him... no outside threat, drives are out of control.. Spalding for one reason or another couldn't stop him.. Webster knew how... draw the charge...

4) Fritsch has disappointed me when I've seen him this year... at least compared to last season... he should have spent the hours in the weight room that Lessen did...Instead of a strong to the basket kind of guy, he's become much more of a perimeter jump shooter... and that leads to inconsistencies from game to game...

5) DT is an anomily that I marvel at..  but he looked lost against Webster's quickness yesterday

6)  Jordan Kindred back yesterday.. big smile on his face put a big smile on my face... All the 2 sport fans can preach all they want... I'm just saying, if JK had stuck to just hoops, it would have been an entirely different basketball season for him, though football was obviously not the reason he missed the last several games..... Kindred can still help the devils to a tournament spot, and to be a challenger to Spalding...

[hopefan]

tidbits

I feel bad I've neglected Fontbonne the last couple of weeks, shifting my focus to the top 5 teams in the conference...   But by beating Greenville, they have established themselves ahead of Greenville as the No 1 team on the outside looking in, and their tremendous performance yesterday against Spalding again shows how close they are to the top 5.... THINK.. they missed 14 free throws.... THEY SHOULD HAVE WON THIS GAME.... prediction... if everyone returns, Fontbonne will be in contention for a top 4 spot next year, surpassing Eureka who loses EVERYONE, and being one of 6 competing for 4 spots....

Mac has lost 4 in a row and I don't know if Coach Creal can find an answer to somehow replace Cody Best....   he preached the positives of  Best to me early in the season, and I wasn't a total believer, but wow, the results show he was right... It's not like coach isn't trying everything as he has juggled his starting lineups several ways, but the winning answer has yet to surface.... I don't see practice every day, but I still can't figure out why the rookie isn't getting more minutes.. every time I see him, he gets a couple minutes, he gets a hoop. and he doesn't turn it over, but like I said, I don't see the every day stuff...

And speaking of Mac...can that box score possibly be right?... would like to know how Whitlock, showing one foul, 19 points, would only play 13 minutes...  answer is, the box is wrong, the minutes dont add up to 200, much less 225 to account for OT... Mac has taken grief from Wash U for the poor preparation at their game, Yjak and I pointed out critical play by play errors in the Mac-Webster box..  minutes in this Westmin-Mac box are WAY off, and when I went to play by play to see how game ended tied in regulation, the last minute of regulation made NO sense... as well as end of first half where last transaction is at 1:16... what happened then?  Did they just quit?
Mac needs to step it up and take a little more pride in those duties....No excuses... Anyone has every right to expect this stuff to be correct....

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ As I said earlier, I think this is something the commissioner must surely be committed to fixing. There may be no quick fix, but an investment in training clearly seems to be needed, either by Mac or the conference. It can't be easy to manage the clock, the shot clock, the scoreboard, the official score book, the play-by-play, and whatever other tasks are assigned to the scorers table. But most schools manage to do a reasonably good job of it. Yes, there are occasional goofs at other schools in the conference as well as in games from other conferences I watch online. But the recently cited lapses at Mac standout as beyond reasonable miscues.

Having said all that, as with many things it could be possible that I don't know what I'm talking about.

hopefan, did you get my pm?

[hopefan]

got your pm, found the answer.. gotta study it a bit so that I understand well enough to explain it...  will PM back to you, probably not for a day or too...

[formersliaccommish]

MacMurray, and Blackburn, have done a terrible job with stats for over ten years, in spite of numerous pleas from the past two commissioners. Neither school has seemed put much of a priority on that operation since Bob Gay stepped down at Mac and Joe Rasmsey, a terrific coach/administrator, was fired at Blackburn.

The SLIAC schools can't compete on the court/field very often with the CCIWs and UAAs of this world because of a lack of resources, but they sure as heck should be able to get scores in on time and have a stat crew that does the job right.

Training is a part of the problem but the bigger problem is that neither school cares.