MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

78 72 WU

[Denny McKinney]

Does anyone have a Technical Foul count?  What a Joke!

[hopefan]

Tidbits from a trip to Spalding:

Hunter Ward.. did he read  my words?? Came out and hit two jump shots right away... now then, why can't this kid find 12 - 14 shots in game rather than 6-8.. more to the basket... he's wasted on the 3 point line

last night vs Westmin.. Hunter Ward 7 for 12, 3 for 4 from the line, 10 rebs      Gotta love it.... unfortunately had 5 turnovers too..

Turnovers nearly lost this game for Webster... after playing a nearly flawless 1st half, turnovers allowed Westminster to come back into the game... Webster will NOT win the conference tournament if this continues to be a problem... for all the pluses they have, the best starting 5 in the conference, the best size, tough defense, if they don't take care of the ball and get the good shots, they'll lose on Thursday in Louisville....

[y_jack_lok]

Tidbits from a trip to Spalding:

Hunter Ward.. did he read  my words?? Came out and hit two jump shots right away... now then, why can't this kid find 12 - 14 shots in game rather than 6-8.. more to the basket... he's wasted on the 3 point line

last night vs Westmin.. Hunter Ward 7 for 12, 3 for 4 from the line, 10 rebs      Gotta love it.... unfortunately had 5 turnovers too..

Turnovers nearly lost this game for Webster... after playing a nearly flawless 1st half, turnovers allowed Westminster to come back into the game... Webster will NOT win the conference tournament if this continues to be a problem... for all the pluses they have, the best starting 5 in the conference, the best size, tough defense, if they don't take care of the ball and get the good shots, they'll lose on Thursday in Louisville....

I was following the video on my tablet last night. When the video feed comes up there is a message that says the transmission is not optimized for mobile devices, which is certainly true. The picture is clear but the speed of the action is really choppy. I could have gone to my computer, but was too lazy. What I noticed though, was that it looked like Westminster switched from man to zone midway through the 2nd half and that's what bothered Webster and created a lot of those turnovers. Is that right?

[hopefan]

Denny, Bunchtime... you can cry or ridicule the tiebreaker procedure all you want, but it is not only applied to basketball... Soccer, Baseball, Softball, and Volleyball are also included....
AND, I have no idea how the rule was instituted (I'll try to ask George Barber tonight), but I would think coaches had some amount of input in its approval.... so by condemning the rule, you may also be condemning the coaches you routinely praise...  I for one have no problem with coaches who stress discipline... and discipline is drawing a line that should not be crossed over.. cross it and you are rolling the dice

That being said, I've got to admire Bunchtime's line about community service, and Denny's pointing out that a T Foul to Westmin would hurt more than a loss...

Will be interesting to see what Coach Barber can tell me about the process.....

Now then, in conjunction with this debate, Here is what I have been complaining about ever since I connected with the SLIAC 8 or 9 years ago...WHY does the SLIAC remain one of only two conferences that schedules its final conference games on the Tuesday of Conference tourney week???  Other conferences with 9,10, 11, even 12 teams can figure out how to schedule their conference seasons to end Saturday, but not the SLIAC... this is SO bad for so many reasons...
It takes away any opportunity to have a tiebreaker game, which would be exciting for everyone involved
It crushes any hope of expanding the conference tourney to 6 or 8 teams  ( though I admit there is a huge gap this season between the haves and the have nots)
It allows Extremely limited planning time for the host, teams that will travel, and fans...

The commish is a smart young man... I don't understand why this situation hasn't been remedied, or what the justification is for not seeking a remedy....

[hopefan]

Y jack.. that was a big part of it... And Webster got a little too fancy, trying to force passes or the dribble through the middle......

[ecreddevils]

Y jack.. that was a big part of it... And Webster got a little too fancy, trying to force passes or the dribble through the middle......

Brings up a good point.  Webster is an ideal team to try a zone against--try and bunch the lane up to challenge their interior scoring threats, make them shoot over the zone--this is a team that shoots 31.7% from 3 land, towards the statistical bottom of D-III. It's almost like coaches apologize for playing zones these days as some kind of junk defense, when in reality I think of zone as a strategic element that is underutilized, particularly at the SLIAC level where you can make teams who might have a lesser skill level prove their meddle, rather than just making a contest of physicality.

[y_jack_lok]

Y jack.. that was a big part of it... And Webster got a little too fancy, trying to force passes or the dribble through the middle......

Brings up a good point.  Webster is an ideal team to try a zone against--try and bunch the lane up to challenge their interior scoring threats, make them shoot over the zone--this is a team that shoots 31.7% from 3 land, towards the statistical bottom of D-III. It's almost like coaches apologize for playing zones these days as some kind of junk defense, when in reality I think of zone as a strategic element that is underutilized, particularly at the SLIAC level where you can make teams who might have a lesser skill level prove their meddle, rather than just making a contest of physicality.

I know this is the men's board, but a perfect example of what ecreddevils says is the way the Iowa Wesleyan women played the WU women last week. The WU ladies don't have a 3 point shooter like Katy Meyer any more and IWC really packed in the zone. They packed it in so far that there could have been some good 12-15 foot shot possibilities if the offense were trying to create those shots. If she could shoot more threes Courtney Pursley might be the best 3 point shooter Webster has. But she doesn't get out and take those shots as much this year as in the past and her percentage of made threes is much lower than in previous seasons. I used to be anti-zone, but I'm not any more.

[Denny McKinney]

Well Hopefan you do keep things amusing.

Denny, Bunchtime... you can cry or ridicule the tiebreaker procedure all you want, but it is not only applied to basketball... Soccer, Baseball, Softball, and Volleyball are also included....AND, I have no idea how the rule was instituted (I'll try to ask George Barber tonight), but I would think coaches had some amount of input in its approval.... so by condemning the rule, you may also be condemning the coaches you routinely praise...  I for one have no problem with coaches who stress discipline... and discipline is drawing a line that should not be crossed over.. cross it and you are rolling the dice.

I've already addressed comparing those other sports, is like apples and oranges. Soccer, a yellow card is for language or a dangerous play. (Yjak correct me if I'm wrong.) Baseball and softball only have ejections. Which is basically either Language or Fighting. And, Volleyball..... Hmmm. I followed closely the FU dynasty teams. I've never ever saw any type of conduct call. Don't even know of the penalty.

Hopefan you are correct. The following line in the manual threw we off.
"The quality-of-wins index is calculated by adding the total number of points and dividing by the number of games."

I find that the only part of the technical rule that has any merit is T's for player conduct. Although it is very subjective. T's on the bench are a function of the game. I don't approve of any player on the court getting a T. Although, there are several reasons a head coach gets one. I've seen a T used to wake up a team that just didn't show up with their head in the game. To effect away the officials are calling a game. ie: The classic "Homer Job". And to protect ones players. The latter, I saw a game where some physically dirty plays were happening and not being called. The T showed the players that their coach was standing up for them. And, I'm assuming no foul language.

This just my opinion.

We basically agree on this point. I can live with the player T part of the equation. As, I have mentioned. Though still highly subjective.

Hopefan wrote:
"MacMurray's James Williams missing from boxscore vs Eureka... he's been a huge plus off the bench for Mac.. sweet shooter... I'll wonder aloud if it has to do anything with the T's assessed to Mac recently... he's an emotional kid...."

Exactly my point. Basketball is high emotions and intensity sport, crammed into very tight playing area. That's what makes it special. These kids aren't all Alter boys or robots. But, a kid can go up and get a clean block, then hear the whistle. If he shows any emotions at all (including turning his back and saying "Oh Noooooo") it's a quick "T". Not in any other sport.

It's the bench T's I have a problem with. It's the only sport I know that questioning an official's call results in a penalty. Baseball is a good example. About 5 times a game you see Molina point down to first base on a check swing. Questioning the umps call and asking him to ask for help.

I've also wondered about the flagrant 1 and 2 call. It deals basically with intent. I've seen this on televised DI games. It takes 5 - 10 minutes of watching replays to come to a conclusion. In a SLIAC game, the official has to make a subjective call on something they saw in the blink of an eye.

So I will say it again. It's a Joke of a Rule! IMHO

[BunchTime]

Hope, yes, it is true that condemning the rule may go against what some of the coaches think of the rule.  I make no mistake about it, I am big Coach Bunch fan, but if he was for the rule, I would not have a problem telling him what I think about it.  Simply because I am Bunch supporter doesn't mean we'll agree on everything.  My parting words on the subject -- the rule is dumb.  Here are 5 tiebreaker criteria that should be used before the technical foul rule: head-to-head record, record vs. top 4 teams, SOS, fewest points allowed in conference, record against top 6 teams (in no particular order...and I'm sure I'm forgetting some...just throwing these out there for example).  Anyway, as I said, obviously you know where I stand on the rule, so moving on to actual hoops talk. 

Haven't looked at everyone's remaining games, so I thought I'd ask Hope as he is as tuned in to the SLIAC as anyone.  Is it a virtual lock that Spalding will host?  Any chance the Gorloks can somehow manage to climb to the top of the standings? 

[ecreddevils]

Haven't looked at everyone's remaining games, so I thought I'd ask Hope as he is as tuned in to the SLIAC as anyone.  Is it a virtual lock that Spalding will host?  Any chance the Gorloks can somehow manage to climb to the top of the standings?

Hope can respond, but from what I see it is not at all a done deal that Spalding will host.  Spalding is 14-2 with two tough games left, @ Greenville (SU 79-76 first meeting) and Westmin (SU 85-82 2 OT in first meeting).  Mac has two easier games, @ FU (78-72) and IWU (76-52).  If SU stumbles and Mac wins out, Mac gets it.  Both win out, tiebreak (See: Denny vs. Hope).

Webster at 13-3 would need to win out, have both SU and Mac lose one, and then would still be in a tiebreak situation. Long shot that both Mac and SU lose a game.

[Denny McKinney]

Bunchtime very well said. You should consider politics.

ECreddevil - It's not Denny vs. Hope. It's just my opinion, as I've stated before.

Yjak - The feed must of been in the devise. I had it plug thru my Big Screen. Crystal clear.

[hopefan]

Bunchtime it's a virtual lock that Webster will not host. Mac can sneak in if Spalding were to lose to Gville tonight or to Westmin on Sat.   I'm at Gville now.   will report scores

[hopefan]

heavy winds in Gville. some trees down.

[hopefan]

Will Barber in uniform for Spalding tonite