MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[y_jack_lok]

Back when I was there (late 60s), IWU was still very much affiliated with the United Methodist Church (which was still the Methodist Church in those days) - the bishop had a building on campus, there was compulsory chapel, the religion department got the behaviorists in the psychology department fired, etc.  It is now probably the most thoroughly secular school in the CCIW.  I suspect that all the the conference schools except Wheaton (and NPU?) are now more secular than they were back then.

Likewise, when I was at Randolph-Macon (also in the 60's) the connection to the Methodist Church was still quite solid. I think it was 1968 when the Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren Church (which I had been part of for a few years) merged and formed the United Methodist Church.

[WUPHF]

Hope this helps.

You are the No. 1 reason why I keep coming back to D3boards.com.

[WUPHF]

Though, keep in mind, I am a UAA fan, so Lord knows I have almost no reason to visit the boards, other than the SLIAC and CCIW threads. 

[hopefan]

Hope this helps.

You are the No. 1 reason why I keep coming back to D3boards.com.

I'm crushed.....   

[WUPHF]

I'm crushed.....   

For what it is worth, and remember that my opinion is only valued at about a +48/-21 karma over 800 posts, you are a strong No. 2.  I especially enjoyed the recent post about SLIAC strength of schedules.

[Gregory Sager]

Very interesting, Sager. My wife is a chaplain and was in the United Methodist system (though never got ordained) for about ten years, so she is much more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am. As I understand it, Methodism sprang up from the work of John Wesley who became known for his "method", whatever it was. And I do know that the UMC is not the only "brand" of Methodists. I think there may also be about as many brands of Presbyterian as there are Methodist -- PC(USA), PC in America, Cumberland Presbyterian, Evangelical Presbyterian, perhaps one or two more.

Oh, there's many more than that. You'd be surprised! Small Presbyterian denominations are thick on the ground here in the United States. There's also the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (approx. 30,000 members); the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (approx. 40,000 members); Bible Presbyterian Church (approx. 3,500 members), the Cumberland Presbyterian Church in America (a black denomination that separated from the white-controlled Cumberland Presbyterian Church shortly after the Civil War); and the Evangelical Covenant Order: A Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians (approx. 60,000 members -- it's brand new and is an unfortunately-named denomination from the point of view of my denomination, the Evangelical Covenant Church, which is 129 years old and has no Presbyterian background). There's about eight or nine other small Presbyterian denominations in the U.S., but I'll stop there.

Presbyterians are almost as querulous and argumentative as Baptists, which explains why their denominational bodies tend to proliferate like mushrooms.

It's always fascinating where a conversation on these boards might lead and you can learn about a lot of things other than sports sometimes. But eventually we have to get back to the more important topic of basketball.

Still got another week to go before the magic date of October 15 when practices can start.

Back when I was there (late 60s), IWU was still very much affiliated with the United Methodist Church (which was still the Methodist Church in those days)

Methodist Church (USA), actually. The MCUSA merged with the United Evangelical Brethren Church in 1968 to form the United Methodist Church. Illinois Wesleyan was a MCUSA school, and North Central was a UEBC school, so the merger made IWU and NCC sister schools within the same denomination.

The UMC's other two Illinois schools, MacMurray College and McKendree University, both come out of the same MCUSA heritage as Illinois Wesleyan.

- the bishop had a building on campus, there was compulsory chapel, the religion department got the behaviorists in the psychology department fired, etc.  It is now probably the most thoroughly secular school in the CCIW.

I don't know about that. The ties of most of the other CCIW schools to their parent denominations are extremely tenuous, and both the campus culture and the administration of those schools are very secular as well. I remember talking to a retired Lutheran minister a few years ago at a North Park vs. Carthage basketball game who told me that he had been Carthage's chaplain back in the day. He was astonished to find out that NPU not only kept close ties to its parent denomination (the Evangelical Covenant Church), but that chapels at NPU were both extremely well-attended and did not feature Wiccan priestesses, freethinker atheists, or Buddhist monks as guest speakers.

I suspect that all the the conference schools except Wheaton (and NPU?) are now more secular than they were back then.

Yep. As y_jack pointed out, most U.S. colleges and universities that have or had ties to mainline Protestant denominations are now very secularized. NPU and Wheaton are grounded in a different tradition, that of evangelical Protestantism, and thus have not lost their more overtly religious campus cultures and institutional direction (although NPU and Wheaton are decidedly two different flavors within that common institutional tradition).

Hope this helps.

You are the No. 1 reason why I keep coming back to D3boards.com.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

Though, keep in mind, I am a UAA fan, so Lord knows I have almost no reason to visit the boards, other than the SLIAC and CCIW threads. 

The UAA basketball room certainly deserves better. It's too good a league for it to have so little conversation. I try to keep my hand in over there with a U of C recap every now and then whenever I get a chance to see a game at the Ratner Center, but the room really needs a Hopefan type who can rally conversation and keep things going when posting slacks off.

[hopefan]

hopefan musings on the eve of the season's opening day of practices....

Retirement is just wonderful... even more time to think about the mix of teams in the SLIAC, and the mix of players on each team.... if only I knew more about all the new faces... well I'll see most of them in November and December...

One Coach told me that while Webster is the obvious choice to take the conference, he expects a real dogfight for spots 2-8... and why not... the other 3 teams that made last year's conference tourney, Spalding, MacMurray, and Westminster each had significant graduation losses... Greenville, Fontbonne, and Blackburn have solid returning players, and Eureka is rumored to have had a solid recruiting year....  the key is, all 7 of those schools will be relying on new faces or kids that saw only limited varsity floor time last season...it seems to be a very level playing field.... 

I've reviewed the schedules... big time nonconference matchups that pique my interest:
11/15    Westminster and Greenville play Millikin and Elmhurst at Elmhurst
11/21, 11/22  Webster and Mac play Millikin and Texas-Dallas at Webster
12/10    Wash U plays at Webster
12/16    Augustana plays at Mac
12/29    Spalding plays Hope at Wooster, and possibly Wooster the next night

There are also 4 or 5 matchups with top SLIAC teams playing local D2 squads... likely mismatches, BUT......

The week of Dec 1 could be my 'marriage breaker'...  conference games on Tues, Wed, Thurs, Fri, and Sat... all good matchups with none of the games near home in St Louis... how many can I get away with?

Two Tough decision days (which game to go to)... Sat Jan 17 when Font plays at Webster, Spalding plays at Westmin, and Mac plays at Greenville.... and Sat Jan 31 when Spalding plays at Font, Webster plays at Mac and Greenville plays at Westmin...  Maybe the standings will dictate....

Crazy potential trip.... another marriage breaker... I wouldn't consider going to Wooster to see Spalding play Hope (and Wooster host Wisc-Lacrosse), would I?   540 miles... naaaa.. that's crazy... right?

ok.. one liners on each team... prior to seeing any of these new faces..

Blackburn.... a couple of good players returning, and a pretty good recruiting class... excited for them, but probably a year away.

Eureka... I heard a number of solid JC recruits, but the program refuses to communicate with me... I just don't get it....

Fontbonne...  New coach, new attitude... if the two frosh with size can contribute immediately, they have enough to compete

Greenville... always in the mix, but have to figure out how to get one or two more conference wins to make the top 4...

Iowa Wesleyan...  were way behind last year, lots of new frosh on the roster

Mac... hurt big by graduation, but have pretty solid returning 5 man rotation with some solid recruits and perhaps a surprise kid returning from injury... Clayton Whitlock, can he 'come back'?

Prin... already small numbers decimated by graduation... only a miracle recruiting class could help, and I haven't heard anything..

Spalding.. Lost 4 of the best players in the conference to graduation, but 4 or 5 battle tested players return, and I'm willing to bet some of the kids on the bench who rarely played are pretty good... Best point guard in league in Brandon Gabriel

Webster.. 3 all conf level players in Ahmad Smith, Hunter Ward, Kevin Miller, and a possible 4th in Aaron Griffin... some nice depth behind them and some solid recruits....

Westminster... Brandon Moore and Verdis Lee are exciting scorers, but last year's bench and a plethora of new faces will get the rest of the minutes.. still, Matt Mitchell usually gets the Jays to top 4....

[y_jack_lok]

Nice work again hopefan. If you decide on either of those marriage breaker trips at least you have a couple of kids living nearby so you can bunk with one of them until the dust settles 

I'm looking at Webster's opening weekend at Monmouth and at Knox. On the surface it would seem like those should be two Ws, especially Knox who were 1-22 last season.  Monmouth was only 6-17 but they played at Webster last season and led the entire game, up by around 15 with 4-5 minutes left. Then, somehow, Webster came back and Aaron Griffin grabbed a rebound and hit a turn around 6 ft jumper to give Webster its only lead of the game at 68-67 with 3-4 seconds left. Monmouth couldn't convert on its final play. I'm not mentally putting the Monmouth game, or any game, in the W column in advance.

[Gregory Sager]

Nice work again hopefan. If you decide on either of those marriage breaker trips at least you have a couple of kids living nearby so you can bunk with one of them until the dust settles 

LOL!

[hopefan]

Well, the Cardinals are gone .. now I can really concentrate on SLIAC Hoops 

[hopefan]

hopefan's top ten returners  (expected big impact)
Chris Davis BC      15.1   ppg  4.4 rpg      Ready to lead Blackburn return to respectability
Jared Greenlee    FU   11.7   ppg  7.1 rpg      Tough nosed worker
Ron Harris GC      13.2   ppg  8.7 rpg      Leading returning rebounder in conference
Hunter Ward WU   11.1   ppg  5.5 rpg      17 ppg in final 8 games
Ahmad Smith WU   16.4   ppg  2.9 rpg      Consistent scorer
Kevin Miller WU   14.8   ppg  8.4 rpg      Can't be stopped down low
Verdis Lee WC      14.7   ppg   5   rpg      Exciting quick leaper
Brandon Moore WC   14   ppg  3.9 rpg           Outstanding perimeter shooter
Brandon Gabriel SU    8   ppg  3.4 rpg            Will play huge role at point for Spalding
Clayton Whitlock Mac 8.1   ppg  4.4 rpg            Forget last year, remember 2 previous when he averaged 14 ppg

[hopefan]

D3hoops top 25, plus another 31 teams that got votes , is now posted, and not to my surprise, there is no mention of a SLIAC team...... However, I am a tad disappointed that Webster couldn't pull at least one vote, given their admirable performance at IWU in the tourney last year, coupled with the fact that 4 starters, including 3 double digit scorers are returning from that team.  Yes history tells us that the SLIAC is a bottom 15 percent conference in D3, buts close look at what Webster has returning COULD have justified mention....  Well, I can only hope that the Gorlocks get off to a quick start in the season in order to be recognized as a program with the potential to play with the upper echelon of D3 teams....

[Gregory Sager]

The Gorloks should've received at least a little bit of attention from the pollsters, especially considering who they have coming back. As I said on CCIW Chat, it's a head-scratcher of a preseason poll.

[BunchTime]

Agree with you both, hope and Sager!  Like you said, hope, given Webster's performance at IWU and their returning starters, it's crazy to think the Gorloks weren't worthy of a single vote. Oh well...life in the SLIAC, I suppose. Excited for the season to kickoff and what should be a very good Webster team this year! 

[BunchTime]

Here is rundown of the Gorloks this year:

PG -- 3 man battle between Etter, Odjo and CJ Moore. All 3 played significant minutes last year at the 1 and 2 spots. Odjo and Etter each started a handful of games last year. Moore played in 25.

SG -- Ahmad Smith. Obviously we know what he brings to the table. Scorer, slasher. 16.4 ppg last year.

SF -- Hunter Ward. Like Smith, we know what he can do. Arguably the leagues best all-around player.

PF -- Aaron Griffin. Solid and athletic post. A 10 and 7 type of guy.

C -- Kevin Miller. A 15 and 8 guy and perhaps the best true post player in the league.

Bench --

2 of 3 PGs mentioned above will come off the bench as backups to the 1 and 2 spots.

Tevin Evans -- athletic guard/wing player, long, plus athlete, transferred from St. Louis CC. Could be an all-league player.

Joe Henry -- transfer from Johnson CC. Another guard that will push for time.

Kenan Haywood -- another long, athletic wing. Transfer from a California school.

Michael Dunn -- PG transfer from Florida A&M, athletic, will be in the mix for some playing time in the backcourt.

Danny Zehner -- sat out last year due to injury, has started 17 games in his career. Avg 8.2 and 4 board in 2012-2013.

This team is going to be loaded considering what's returning combined with the transfers Coach Bunch has added. Biggest questions will be (1) can they stay healthy? And (2) Can Coach Bunch and the staff define roles and distribute enough shots and playing time to keep everyone happy.