MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[y_jack_lok]

I'm sure hopefan will have a full report on yesterday's Mac-Webster game, but my more amateur observation is that Mac is playing much better both offensively and defensively now than when the teams met in December. Deavis Johnson is a positive addition for Mac, nd Webster was still without Ahmad Smith. But yesterday, even if you take Johnson away from Mac and put Smith on the floor for Webster, Mac probably still would have won the game comfortably.

[hopefan]

hopefan is TIRED, so will keep it short...

Mac Webster.... after the first 13 minutes, this game was a romp... and word is Ahmad Smith may be out another 1-2 weeks.... Webster may be out of the top 4 by then.... sad to see how this team whom I lobbied for national recognition for, has fallen off the path....big guy or not...  TREMENDOUS inside work by Whitlock, Johnson, and Sutton... and Keltner regains his 3 point touch

IWC trounces BC... What happened to the Beavs that looked so good vs Greenville... and is IWC finding its way?  Don't look now, but if other teams continue to collapse, IWC is  not totally out of this thing....How crazy is that??!!      11-7, 10-8 might still be good enough for 4th.

Greenville over Westmin....  Greenville wins the boards and shoots less poorly than Westmin... Any win for GC is key at this point.... But they won't beat a top 6 if  Scott, Harris, Smith continue to combine for 15 points.... looks like Trisko and Young came to the rescue from the bench, and nice game from Ehresman..

Eureka nips Prin... Cody Behrens gets a start, comes up big with 18 points, frosh Ian Saathoff goes for 19 and 8... EC stays in the hunt as the door cracks a tad wider...  They really are gettin 0 from the bench though... will be a problem...

Fontbonne hangs on to nip Spalding.... wish I had seen this one.... Thanks Denny for coming up with the answer to Moore's absense... The kids being in hotel rooms and buses for 9 days and having contagious illness pop up is a scarey situation... hopefully precautions were taken and it doesn't spread... that would be a very sad situation...Although offense will pop up from other individuals on occasion, Spaldings only real weapons are the Brandons, Goeing and Gabriel... the rest of the guys are a little young, a little inexperienced... Wait til next year.... For Fontbonne to break out ahead, and then fend off the Spalding rally in the last minutes... tremendous point in the revitalization of this program... I don't pay much attention to attendance figures as they are likely inaccurate anyway, but I wish the Fontbonne community would get behind these guys and up the numbers (120 yesterday).... they deserve the support....  Also hope Coaches are aware of what Jarrod Greenlee does night in and night out when it comes to all conference voting... not as flashy as others, but CONSISTENT... 

AND... Coach of the year honors.... a tossup between Coach Hall (turning it around) and Coach Gray (winning despite tremendous graduation losses)

I rarely meet parents of players, but had to chuckle yesterday when I noticed two sets of parents that  I have met - the parents of the opposing point guards for Mac and Webster - sat right in front/behind each other yesterday... was going to go down and introduce them to each other, but chickened out... wonder if they figured it out over the length of the game.... .. unfortunately, one set always will go home happy, the other sad.. it's just the way it is...

[SliacChamp]

Well, Webster needs two wins this week badly. Hope they aren't looking down to any team at this point otherwise they will look at the scoreboard and be getting blown out. 1 game up for fourth in the standings with Fontbonne likely to split this week and Eureka likely to lose both. Webster desperately needs Hunter Ward to play well this week and Aaron Griffin to continue. I think the Key for Ward is simply getting a few more shots up. Without smith, there are shots to be taken. I also thought Danny Zehner has been playing well lately. He moves like his feet are tied together but he has been productive of late.

[hopefan]

Well, Webster needs two wins this week badly. Hope they aren't looking down to any team at this point otherwise they will look at the scoreboard and be getting blown out. 1 game up for fourth in the standings with Fontbonne likely to split this week and Eureka likely to lose both. Webster desperately needs Hunter Ward to play well this week and Aaron Griffin to continue. I think the Key for Ward is simply getting a few more shots up. Without smith, there are shots to be taken. I also thought Danny Zehner has been playing well lately. He moves like his feet are tied together but he has been productive of late.

In association with more shots, I vote for drives to the hole and pull up j's based on these stats:

Last 5 games   
Hunter Ward from 3 point land  3-19, 16%      points per shot attempt : 0.47
Hunter Ward from 2 point land  18-29, 62%    points per shot attempt : 1.24

All conference games
Hunter Ward from 3 point land  16-51, 31%    points per shot attempt : 0.94 
Hunter Ward from 2 point land  37-63, 59%     points per shot attempt : 1.17     

[SliacChamp]

I agree Hopefan. Ward is deceptively quick with the ball and has a nice first step. I know Deavis Johnson is athletic but I have to believe that he could have gotten to the rim a lot more against Mac.

[y_jack_lok]

I agree Hopefan. Ward is deceptively quick with the ball and has a nice first step. I know Deavis Johnson is athletic but I have to believe that he could have gotten to the rim a lot more against Mac.

He did that at least once (used his quickness to get past Johnson), and I thought could have done it more. But I'm a bit confused by this obsession with Hunter Ward. He's not the only one who needs to step up and play well for Webster to end the season in a positive fashion.

[hopefan]

I agree Hopefan. Ward is deceptively quick with the ball and has a nice first step. I know Deavis Johnson is athletic but I have to believe that he could have gotten to the rim a lot more against Mac.

He did that at least once (used his quickness to get past Johnson), and I thought could have done it more. But I'm a bit confused by this obsession with Hunter Ward. He's not the only one who needs to step up and play well for Webster to end the season in a positive fashion.

Perhaps it's because with Ahmad Smith out, some feel that there are really only 2 players on the roster who have the ability to step up to the level of taking over a game... one of them is contributing just about max already (Griff)... the other just hasn't reached that level in quite a while.... remember, this is a kid who was touted by D3 experts such as TQ as a potential All-American... with the exception of his rebounding efforts, he hasn't done enough for me to vote him on first or possibly even 2nd team All Conference... Honestly, I don't know if Webster can beat a top 6 without Ahmad, and it hurts badly to say that....

We'll see how things go vs Prin tonight.... Webster quickness should beat them badly... but WITH Ahmad, they were fortunate to take the first meeting to OT, then nip Prin.... if they play passively tonight, stay out on the perimeter and fire away, don't extend their defense to pressure Prin, they will be vulnerable...

[y_jack_lok]

I agree Hopefan. Ward is deceptively quick with the ball and has a nice first step. I know Deavis Johnson is athletic but I have to believe that he could have gotten to the rim a lot more against Mac.

He did that at least once (used his quickness to get past Johnson), and I thought could have done it more. But I'm a bit confused by this obsession with Hunter Ward. He's not the only one who needs to step up and play well for Webster to end the season in a positive fashion.

Perhaps it's because with Ahmad Smith out, some feel that there are really only 2 players on the roster who have the ability to step up to the level of taking over a game... one of them is contributing just about max already (Griff)... the other just hasn't reached that level in quite a while.... remember, this is a kid who was touted by D3 experts such as TQ as a potential All-American... with the exception of his rebounding efforts, he hasn't done enough for me to vote him on first or possibly even 2nd team All Conference... Honestly, I don't know if Webster can beat a top 6 without Ahmad, and it hurts badly to say that....

We'll see how things go vs Prin tonight.... Webster quickness should beat them badly... but WITH Ahmad, they were fortunate to take the first meeting to OT, then nip Prin.... if they play passively tonight, stay out on the perimeter and fire away, don't extend their defense to pressure Prin, they will be vulnerable...

See bolded text above. With all due respect to the very knowledgeable Titan Q, I believe he has seen Ward play perhaps twice, and never while actually in the stands. I think your analysis of what has to happen vs Prin tonight is 100% accurate. On Saturday Mac was simply a better TEAM. They have more size and strength and better outside shooting and have clearly improved since they played Webster in December. Johnson guarding Ward was interesting to watch. Ward was giving up about 4 inches and 100 pounds -- a lot to overcome since Johnson also has a very good skill set. Webster without Miller (and now Smith) is not the team we thought we would be seeing when gearing up for the season in early November. Nevertheless, they are capable of more and the burden should not be on Ward and Griffin alone to deliver wins.

[hopefan]

Ward was giving up about 4 inches and 100 pounds -- a lot to overcome since Johnson also has a very good skill set. Webster without Miller (and now Smith) is not the team we thought we would be seeing when gearing up for the season in early November. Nevertheless, they are capable of more and the burden should not be on Ward and Griffin alone to deliver wins.

Yjack... just to question... Deavis is big, but not THAT big

and the real question..."they are capable of more"....   I'd like to think so, but if you compare the current Webster starters at the 1,2,3 spots, not statistically but how they are playing, are they really capable of generating positive results vs other teams 1,2,3 spots?

Webster :  Etter, Moore, Henry/Zehner
GC  :  Ehrensman, Smith, Daniel
Mac  : Keltner, Guthrie, Sutton
Spalding  :  Gabriel, Goeing, Turner
Fontbonne  :  Dorhauer, Johnson, Welch
Eureka  :  Kent, Wickert, Gibson/Behrens

Objectively, it's tough to give the Webster 3-sum an edge over any but one of these groups.. I guess what I'm saying is that a large increase in production from Ward may be the most likely plus Webster can present....

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ I'm pretty sure the 4 inch height differential is accurate, the 100 pounds is probably an exaggeration, but 50 pounds wouldn't surprise me.

I think the entire Webster team, with the exception of Griffin who is doing just fine, is capable of playing better than they have been. I'm not as familiar as you are with the other teams and their players and my statement was not meant as a comparison to any specific set of players on any specific teams. I simple said "they are capable of more" and I believe that.

[hopefan]

Good discussion YJack  wish more were as interested as us and SLIACchamp...

[Denny McKinney]

I agree Yjak. And, there is a big part of the equation Coach Hopefan has yet to mention. It's the type of Offense that Coach Bunch chooses to run. The 3 pt v 2pt comparison is mute. I'm sure any player would rather shoot lay ups as opposed to 20 footers. The teams offense determines the type of shots a player will get. Is Ward or any other player cutting to the basket when they usually get a touch? Are their back screens? Are they playing from the inside out? Does the offense change to fit personnel?

Ward can say I'm going to the hole all night and the defense will have something to say about it, also.

A good offensive scheme puts the shooter in the best position to succeed.

Webster use to play a much more deliberate style. I have not seen WU enough to say what they are trying to do. I will say the last couple years, the games I've seen, looked more like track meets. And, you need to be realistic with talent.

Just my two cents, Guys.

[SliacChamp]

No Hunter Ward to start the game. He is a good kid from what his Kirkwood coach has told me so hopefully it is not disciplinary. He is dressed in front of us on the bench so I doubt he is hurt. Hopefully the Gorloks can hold off Principia without him.

[SliacChamp]

Parker Van Nest (Freshman) getting some first half minutes. Very surprising even without Ward and Smith but I think Coach Bunch is trying to shake his team up which may benefit them this game.

[SliacChamp]

Webster is struggling. Playing deep into their bench trying to figure out what to do. This is not looking good for the Gorloks.