MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[fcnews]

Here is the skinny on the three loss starters at FC. Careno, from Miami, FL., was not planning on returning anyway. Family issues at home. Holland decided to explore is professional bball options ( haha), his attitude was a problem all last year and him leaving was by no means a loss.

Davis is the one player I would of liked to seen with this years squad. He was a Financial casualty, just like Arbuthnot last year they get these kids in debt with loans and all. Then purge them for a small amount of out of pocket owed. Kennard had to kids and a family to support and trying to get a degree. Basketball or not you hate to loose this type of kid. Great individual.

But, that being said, I'm willing to gamble a cup of java that FC is playing in the conference tourney. And, that FC has the best freshmen class.

[Mac Attack]

I think my point in saying Mac couldn't control the schedule of the teams they were playing was this - your previous post pointed out that despite Macs opponents being a collective 12-2, that record came at the expense of some teams with poor records. All I'm trying to say is MacMuurray couldn't control who Millikin, Grinnell, Dominican, and Concordia scheduled. MacMurray controls its own schdule - but no one elses. So if Millikin, Grinnell, Dominican, and Concordia go 12-2 against teams with poor records, so be it. I don't think anyone compared any of these teams to North Carolina. But 12-2 is 12-2. I'd much rather say my team is 0-4 against teams that are 12-2, than say my team is 0-4 against teams that are 4-8 but they've lost to some great teams...I feel like I'm going around the house to get in the front door.

Now I'm starting to ramble.......

[fcnews]

I'd like to toss my two cents in on the schedule topic.

Here goes. I'll be the first to admit that I'd love to see say a sliac - cciw, lmc and hcac challeneges. And, playing top level regional teams is admiralable. If your not competitive with them whats the gain.

Last year FC played a pretty darn good schedule and would of needed it, if hadn't loss 3 key players. But as it was FC had a very young squad, that played extremely hard for coach, it was a deternent to their season. By the loss of close conf. games it proved that young teams need to learn how to win.

I'm not saying that an "ole school Goergetown" schedule is the way to go. But until we get a sliac win in the tourney. And we're not close yet. You really have to look at your schedule as preparing your team for the conf. play. Getting waxed does do a team any good. I've been close to this game a long time and I've never seen any positives come from being blown out by 30 or more. Unless there is a guarntee is involved.

So till the sliac is up to par with some of the Midwest conferences let\s don't over do it with non-conf. schedule disscusions.

Again this year the sliac rep. will get Wash U or the CCIW in the first round and nobody resembles a team to beat either one. Yet.

[Daryl L Lloyd]

FC: You are right.  Thats why I stated that I wasnt trying to make this a conversation about the strength of schedule of the SLIAC teams and cross-comparisons.  What I was saying, and I still assert this, is that I disagree with the assumption that because the four teams Mac played are 12-2 that is representative of a tough schedule.  It is not a tough schedule, the teams have been beating up on powder puffs, thats all I was saying.  Will these close games help Mac in SLIAC competition, most likely yes. . . but thats not what I was pointing out.  I was saying that the combined record of the teams Mac has been playing really gives no added value to the discussion, nor is it indicative of Mac abilities because they have "played them close". 

Mac Attack: I reread your previous post and had originally misread it, I now understand what you meant.  While I agree with you that Mac has not control over other teams schedule, that is not the point.  The point is that while 12-2 is a good record if you are looking at wins compared to losses, thats about it. It is indicative of absolutely nothing outside of that.  You have to look at who the wins are against and who the losses are against.  If you told me Mac is 0 and 4, but its against teams that are a combined 12-2, it would mean absolutly nothing to me if I was not looking at the teams that those teams were 12-2 against.  If youre not looking at the teams that they are 12-2 against then why does it matter that they even have a 12-2 record, why not just say Mac is 0-4.  If it makes you feel better to say Mac is 0 and 4 against teams that have a combined 12-2 record than so be it, but Ill take it with a grain of salt.

[fcnews]

Daryl- My statement was not directed at you personally. There is always discussion about the sliac teams schedules and I was giving my opinion on it.

Saw Ryan Good at the last FC home game. Nice visit. Nice young man. He got to see the McCoy kid that WU lost out in getting go for 28 points.

[Daryl L Lloyd]

FC: I know it wasnt directed at me, I just felt inclined to respond, since in the past I have been vocal about the strength of SLIAC team schedules.  Its a double edge sword, like you said you dont want to get blown out in preparing for conference competition, but you want to prepare yourself and get an idea of what else is outside the conference as well.  Hopefully one day we'll be able to look at the other conferences at eye level instead of from down here, but right now we are still growing and making some good improvements as far as competition goes. 

[hopefan]

Thanks FC for the info - I'm anxious to see Fontbonne's "Diaper Dandies" in action.

The SLIAC will hopefully double their season's total of wins tonite, with 4 games that are definitely winnable.   
Fontbonne vs Rockford
Greenville vs Logan Chiro  (are we even allowed to count that as a game?)
Prin vs St Louis Pharma
Blackburn vs Lincoln Christian

Well, a win is a win.....

[Mac Attack]

Yep...to requote Lou Holtz, when the season is over, they don't ask you who you played...they ask you how many you won. Read where North Carolina has started out 3-0. Of course their wins came against Gardner-Webb, California-Santa Barbara, and Cleveland State - so I guess we need to take that record with a grain of salt...

Where is Logan Chiropractic and what division do they play in? Same with St. Louis College of Pharmacy? Are these four year schools that give a variety of degrees, or something else?

Good luck to all SLIAC teams tonight...

Go Highlanders!!!

[hopefan]

Logan, to my knowledge, is not affiliated with a non NCAA org - at least not the NAIA, the NCCAA, or the USCAA.  I can't even say whether they are a 4 year school, or less, or even more (is a chiro program 6 years?)

St Louis Pharmacy is an NAIA-D2 school

[fcnews]

Hey Give G Webb their dues they beat Minnesota last night.

[Daryl L Lloyd]

Mac Attack: I think we can all agree that NC has not proven much at this point, if you want to argue otherwise come back if they beat Illinios and Kentucky, then we can argue D1 basketball if you would like.  Personally Id rather talk D3 ball, but different strokes for different folks.  Right now I will take the NC record with a grain of salt and a side of red potatoes please.  In the Holtz quote, I see the "they" as referring to the ignorant masses, those that are focused only on the W-L ratio and not the true strength of the schedule and other factors that are important.  But thats just one mans opinion, it is open for interpretation.

Hopefan: I know that an friend of mine attended Logan Chiro following her undergraduate studies, Im not sure if this is how everyone attending does it or what type of institution it is, but your right, and I look at games against them as a pep rally, not really much else comes of it.           

[Mac Attack]

Duly noted - congrats to Gardner Webb! And move that into the quality win category for North Carolina...Not sure about the ignorant masses angle. My sense is most athletic directors consider the won-lost category when it comes to contract time for most coaches. The North Carolina example was just that - an example. Sorry if you considered it any more than that...Wins are wins, losses are losses. Slice it any way you wish. I haven't met too many coaches, players, or ADs over the years that took great consolation in quality losses. And I don't think I have heard many of them hang their head because of an ugly win against a lesser opponent. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Go Highlanders!!!

[Daryl L Lloyd]

Mac Attack:  Im not downplaying the importance of wins, they are very important, especially when your team is 0-4.  We have digressed from the original content of this discussion, which was that the 12-2 record of Macs opponents is inflated, thats all I was saying.  If a win is a win then Mac might easily be 3-0 if they scheduled STL Pharm, Logan Chiro, and Concordia Seminary, but is that truly indicative of a 3-0 team, do you think that is helpful to them in anyway?  Slice it how you wish, but some wins are more than other wins, and some losses are greater than others.   

[hopefan]

I certainly think we all agree that intense games against solid competition, even though they may generate losses, is better preparation for conference games than wins vs the likes of Chiro, Pharma, Seminary and Janitorial colleges     

[fcnews]

Now your giving janitors everywhere a bad name. FC had a pretty good player from Lutheran South a few years back, Shawn Bradley, who transferred to Logan after his sophmore year. It is a strictly proffessional institute with a five year program. Shawn played on Logan's first team. It was a club sport then and it's a club sport now. Pharmacy is making a quality attempt to upgrade it's athletic program and is NAIA - 2. Nexted years scheduling will be more interesting when the conference goes to 18 games. That leaves 7 non-conf. games, two opening weekend and two on a holiday trip, leaves us with only three games to fill. FC's three will include the Fontbonne Classic which currently has FC, Wash U. and Fisk in it. Add St. Louis Christian, because of reasons long ago discussed, and thats it boys.

Blackburn appears to be a completely different team without Essinger and Barnett. It will be interesting to see how they fair. Coack K always has a team that will play you tough though.