MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Gregory Sager]

I was informed that the usual procedure is that the coaches sign off on the scorebook minutes prior to the opening tip... and again assume it is the head coach that signs off.

Nope. The rule (3.4.1., to be exact) specifies that the participating players and their numbers have to be recorded in the book by ten minutes prior to tipoff, but it does not specify who it is that confirms to the official scorer that the roster is correct as written in the book. In fact, more often than not it's an assistant coach that does this.

But I do wonder what the procedure is for getting those names into the book correctly... Is it the head coach, or is he just signing off on someone else's work assuming it was done correctly?   Perhaps an assistant?  Even a student assistant?  (ie.."hey Joey, everyone is dressed tonight, copy last game, dont forget Bennett"...)   who knows?     CCIW readers, how does it work for your team?

It's typically the second chair -- the primary assistant coach -- who either gives the names and numbers to the scorer, or, as is far more often the case, comes to the table and confirms them after the scorer has already written them into the book off of a printed roster (or, once in a great while, from the online roster) for both CCIW men's and women's basketball, and in my experience that's typically the same procedure for non-CCIW basketball programs. On occasion I've seen a head coach do the pregame book check (especially if his or her program doesn't have a full-time paid assistant coach) or a lesser assistant coach, but it's almost always the second chair's responsibility. I've never seen a trainer or a student manager do this. Coaches understand that, even though the book check is part of the pregame routine, it's nevertheless serious business, and it's typically treated as such by having one of the two people who bear all of the important responsibilities in running a basketball program on the D3 level perform this task.

There are typically two responsibilities for the coach when he or she comes to the table prior to the ten-minute mark. One is to either provide or sign off on his or her team's roster as written into the book. The other is to name the starters so that they can be marked in the book as such.

After the ten-minute mark the referee comes over to the table, does a count (observes the players warming up and makes sure that there are as many in uniform as there are in the book), and checks to see that the starters are indicated. He or she then initials the book at the top of each team's roster. (We use the terms "referee" and "official" interchangeably, but technically a college basketball game has one referee and two officials; naturally, the referee is the head official and is thus the person who inspects and initials the book.)

In a typical pregame scenario, the SID provides the scorer's table with copies of the printed roster that's distributed at the door to fans, and the scorer uses that printed roster to write the names into the book. A good scorer will: a) fill out the book as soon as he or she arrives at the table; b) while in the process of writing in the names and numbers, ask one of the coaches from each team during warmups to come to the table to identify scratches if they haven't already been identified, since there's no point in wasting space in the book on a player who isn't suiting up, especially if the squad is large and book space will thus be at a premium; and c) be proactive and encourage coaches to check the book -- or provide the roster, if it hasn't already been provided -- and identify the starters once the pregame clock passes 20:00 and goes into the teens.

You are correct in assuming that the official scorebook is provided by (and permanently kept afterwards by) the home team, and that the staffing responsibility for the scorer's table, including for the scorer him- or herself, rests with the home team.

Anyway, its a one shot Tech, Prin makes it, then gets fouled immediately, makes 2, and wins by 3.

TOUGH way to lose a game....

Yep. No excuse for that on the part of the Webster coaching staff. As I said, the pregame book check may be routine, but routine does not mean unimportant. It's serious business -- and Saturday afternoon at Webster the neglect of that serious business arguably cost the Gorloks the ballgame. The fault does not lie with the official scorer, or the Webster SID, or the officials, or with anybody else at the table -- it lies with Coach Bunch and with whomever he had do the book check, if it wasn't something he did himself.

[hopefan]

Greg... fantastic knowledge, fantastic write up.  Thanks so much!!!!

[hopefan]

Well... I've got a rules question that caught my eye last night....  GREG, HELP

Webster - Spalding... Spalding has just made a free throw to cut the Webster lead to 3 with 20 seconds left.. Spalding presses full court, Webster has trouble and calls a time out with 11 seconds left, as they had not gotten the ball over half court.
when the teams come back out, Webster gets the ball back under the basket...  Now then, how much time does Webster have to get the ball over half court?  The remaining second or 2 in the original 10?  Perhaps 5 seconds, due to a rule for this situation?  Or does the 10 seconds start all over again?

Webster clearly used about 4 to 5 seconds to get it over the mid court line after the time out, and now Spalding had to foul, Webster makes 1 to go up 4, and Spalding had no chance to tie...

WHAT IS THE RULE?   Seems like Webster got an advantage, Spalding got bit, by the fact that Webster had 13 to 15 seconds to get across mid court....

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I had thought a timeout couldn't reset the ten seconds, but I've also seen it called the way you describe this year, so we must be mistaken. An opposing coach isn't going to let refs miss a call like that.

I assume a TO resets the ten seconds, but a ball out of bounds doesn't.

[hopefan]

Very interesting response from Ryan and I also got a PM from an old buddy D3hoops poster who agreed.... a timeout evidently does reset the the 10 second count back to 10.....   It obviously doesn't set the shot clock..... but this means a team could call 2 timeouts (if they had them) and have almost 30 seconds in their backcourt....

Doesn't seem fair to the defensive team.......

[y_jack_lok]

Isn't it precisely for these situations that you save timeouts until late in the game? The NFL is a prime example of why you don't use timeouts early. Games are won and lost based on available timeouts. The rules are the rules. Maybe they should change the rules to give some credit to the defense.

[Gregory Sager]

They are "giving credit to the defense." The defense forced the offensive team's coach to burn a timeout in a situation in which he otherwise would not want to call one. That's an advantage gained by the defense in and of itself.

[y_jack_lok]

They are "giving credit to the defense." The defense forced the offensive team's coach to burn a timeout in a situation in which he otherwise would not want to call one. That's an advantage gained by the defense in and of itself.

Actually, I agree 100% with this. I was just being a bit deferential to my buddy hopefan when I mused about a rule change.

[hopefan]

Allow me to retort....

I don't think a timeout should change the rules of the game... the rules state  team has 10 seconds to get the ball over mid court, 30 seconds to shoot... I don't think it's fair to do away with the 10 second rule by using a timeout.... Just like a timeout doesn't reset the 30 second shot clock....  The timeout should be for the coach to figure out how to get the ball over mid court in the original 10 seconds or what is left of it, not to give him a complete do over.

Just my humble opinion....

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ Good point. But, apparently, the rules of the game also say that in such a situation the team with the ball gets a new 10 seconds. So, I guess you are proposing a rule change.

[hopefan]

What better place to propose a rule change than D3hoops!!!! 

[y_jack_lok]

^^^ When the NCAA changes that rule a few years from now you can take credit.

[hopefan]

All of a sudden I'm beginning to sense a defined grouping of teams in the SLIAC... where we thought any game was a tossup, Saturday and Tuesday results seemed to point to a definitive hierarchy

Top of the conference .... Blackburn, Fontbonne and Eureka    These 3 seem to be playing at a level that will get them to the conference tourney.    Blackburn has only lost to Eureka, Fontbonne has only lost to Blackburn, Eureka lost to Fontbonne and to Spalding... the Eureka loss to Spalding is the only loss outside of the top 3

Middle... fighting for the 4th spot.... Principia, Webster, Spalding, and Westminster..... I would define Webster (geesh, they beat Wash U) and Westminster (loaded with seniors) as disappointing thus far, capable of better... Prin is a surprise, given the loss of Payton Sellers, not sure if they can keep up the effort with only 6 players seeing real time... Spalding has been very competitive vs the top 3, but losses to Webster and Westmin already hurt their chances...   

out.... Greenville... it's just not working this year.....

[GU1999]

out.... Greenville... it's just not working this year.....

Ain't that the truth.  Almost back to full strength last game v. Eureka.  Shooting is just so dang poor.  Hard to win when your shooting slash is, 39.9/29.7/63.9

[hopefan]

Thursday results stay in step with my prior groupings as Blackburn beats Prin and Fontbonne beats Westmin....

Saturday is a critical round of games as each of the 3 leaders (Font, BC, and Eureka) play one of the middlin' group...Eureka vs Westmin, Blackburn vs Spalding, Fontbonne vs Webster

Any wins by the middlin' group will be a huge + in the race for that conference tourney spot... Westminster is closing in on games being considered a must win... a loss on Saturday would put them 2 or 3 games behind the 4th place team in the loss column.