MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[True Basketball Fan]

Bond was at Taylor University (IN) for the last two seasons I believe, before that he was at Ball State.  That's all I know.

To an earlier post.......I think the MAC/Grinnell game will definitely yield a crap load of points, but it will also be low quality, as I think both teams will still struggle to get to double digit wins this season.  Besides being a true basketball fan, I think that brand of basketball is like the WWF compared to real wrestling.  However, I understand why the WWF exists, mainly because the real thing is boring to watch.  That is totally not the case with basketball, as it doesn't need any glitter or gimmicks.  The real thing is plenty good enough.  Like the no defense-track meetish style of ball if you will, everybody has there preference.  But I don't want to hear about the great basketball game that was played at either MAC or Grinnell, because it's not basketball, it's hyped up garbage.

[pete_moss]

Not sure what you mean by "hyped up garbage." This are young kids and a new coach trying to do the best they with the personnel they have. I'm not familiar with Grinnel's program, but MacMurray's "hyped up garbage" was good enough to beat the regular season conference champions last season, as well as increase the program's win total by nearly 100% from the previous season. For those who are a fan of a classic half-court game with a variety of sets and motion on offense, the run-and-gun doesn't go down well. For those who enjoy a faster-paced, higher scoring game, watching the half-court game for 40 minutes is like rearranging your sock drawer. I do think there's a possibility that MacMurray with concentrate more on half-court defense this year than they did last season, as well as improve their shot selection. The Highlanders have some quality players returning and some pretty good incoming recruits, plus the coach has a year of experience under his belt and knows what worked and didn't work, and who he could play and who couldn't. Without going too far out on a limb, I predict MacMurray will win 12-15 games this season. Remember, these are D3 kids, none of whom are on scholarship, playing the game they love the best way they know how. May hat's off to them, win or lose.

[True Basketball Fan]

Calling it run and gun is totally inaccurate.  Run and gun teams actually attempt to defend for more than 4 seconds, and get the best available shot as fast as possible, whether it takes 3 seconds or 20 seconds, and it's not always a 3.  They don't chuck 80 3's a game and give up wide open layups as fast as possible, so they can hurry up and launch another 3. 

I am not a big fan of the slow classic halfcourt brand, even though I like it better than most fans.  I do like run and gun the best as do most fans and players these days, and Grinnell/MacMurray/Redlands/Tri-State hardly qualify as run and gun.  DO NOT get that mixed up.  It is circus-brand basketball - I mean crap (can't believe I called it basketball).  The game is good enough to entertain without contorting it into a putrid mess of balls and players flying around like headless chickens.

Yes they are DIII players and none are on scholarship, I salute their efforts also.  I just feel bad they are subject to such a debauchery of the game they love.

[True Basketball Fan]

Oh yeah, "hyped up garbage" is garbage that is being advertised as exciting when it is really not.  People get tired of it after the glitter of something new wears off.

[fcnews]

I'd just like to add that even though Mac has introduced their "new" style of play, they didn't come close to eclipising any of the conference scoring records last year. Most of which are held by Fontbonne's run and gun style. Also, one of the weekest teams FU has put on the floor in it's existance, beat Mac twice last year. I will say that Mac had way more talent and in a true game of basketball would of probably beat FU both times.

Just my oppinion.

[Mac Attack]

The good news is we have a choice of what we care to watch and appreciate, and what not to. Simply put, if you don't care for a cetain style of play, stay home. Still not sure what kind of message the "hyped up garbage" smear sends to the nine teams the Highlanders defeated last year, but the focus should now be on the 2005-2006 season. Word on the Mac campus is that changes are in the air.  Good kids coming back, several nice recruits, and a head coach with a year under his belt. The last time I looked at the SLIAC, I didn't see any team resembling any of the great UCLA teams from the past, whether they play half-court, motion, run and gun, run and fun, or shoot when you see daylight. In spite of the earlier attack post, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder, or one man's garbage is another man's treasure. I hope the Highlanders light it up again in 2005-2006, mix in a lot better defense, make a few extra passes, and win more than they lose, which is very possible.

[True Basketball Fan]

"the nine teams that the Highlanders beat last year".......let's see Lincoln Christian, St. Louis Pharmacy, Maryville (MO), Westminster (MO), Greenville, Robert Morris-Springfield to name a few.  I don't think that it's out of line to say that those teams were bad, they wouldn't even argue themselves.

Anyway, you're right, just stay home or go elsewhere if you don't like it.  I'm afraid in this case, more people will eventually be leaving, especially when the win total doesn't change much, and they're still losing to sub-.500 teams by 20 some points.

[Daryl L Lloyd]

TBF and Mac Attack,
  We pretty much wore this topic out to finish off last seasons play, sorry you guys missed the discussion.  Anyway, as I stated awhile back, I think the hack, smack, grab. . . then shoot a three style of ball that Mac plays is (while exciting for some to watch) GARBAGE.  Yes they can score ALOT of points, but alot of times its to their detriment, as they get blown out by 20+ to teams that have less talent, as FC stated. 

[Mac Attack]

Boy, you guys just can't let it go. It's like every other team in the SLIAC was Big 10 material with a killer schedule, and Mac was the only team that struggled. The Highlanders did beat Monmouth (12-10), Webster (17-10, 12-2 in SLIAC), and lost by one to Blackburn (18-10, post season SLIAC champion).  You can't have it both ways - if you're going to criticize the Highlanders for their style of play, you should at least give them some respect for playing some of the better teams in the SLIAC tough. They lost five games by less than 10 points, and still finished 9-16, which was a five game improvement from the year before. At least in my opinion, this wasn't bad for a team without one senior, a new head coach, and a completely new system. You can hammer all day and all night about their style of play, which is fair. But by anyone's standards, the team did improve and from the people I talked to, the crowds for home games were much better than they had been - so somebody was having a good time. I guess Mac's strenth of schedule could have been stronger, but as Lou Holtz used to say, at the end of the year, they don't ask you who you played - they ask you how many you won. I checked out some of the other SLIAC schedules and who beat who in 2004-2005, and I don't think anyone qualifies for national consideration. From what I can tell, there were more than a few teams that struggled, some of whom had worse records that MacMurray - but I'm not hearing anyone criticize their "system" - hmmmmmm. I think the real test will be 2005-2006 for the Highlanders. Most everyone returns - although word is a few of last year's players did not come back - and they have some pretty good recruits. Plus the coach has a year under his belt. Not sure if the run, gun, and fun style of play will be the same, but my sense is they will play better defense, pass better, and play under control a little more. We shall see. The key will be continued improvement. I hope everyone does well, and the SLIAC can take a step forward, in terms of gaining some regional respect.

[fcnews]

Mac Attack- I your description of how they will play this year differently, it sounds an awful lot like a run and gun style as oppose to the "System". If that's the case they will stand to improve. If not they can't afford to give up 10-20 dunks as they did against a poor FU team last year that won only six games. Not to mention that the officiating will catch up to that style this year and the opponents FT attempts will rise sharply.

My point was that Mac had always been a very tough team in the past when they played "basketball" and had no problem recruiting quality players. It is not like they were forced into this situation. Teams can score 100+ points consistantly, like FU and Greenville in the past. with out junking up the game.

[fcnews]

Daryl - What's your brother and Steve up to these days? Please pass on my regards.

[True Basketball Fan]

Speaking of Fontbonne, how long is McKinney going to linger there?  He pretty much churned out a Joe Pa kinda season in his waning years (no offense to Joe Paterno, he's definitely one of the greatest, but he went a few two many years).  They certainly didn't resemble anything that we are used to seeing from FU.  I hope for everybody's sake, even McKinney, that we don't witness the same thing mentioned above.  It's never good to see a coaching legend wither away (not winning games that is).

[fcnews]

True Basketball Fan - I wouldn't underestimate Coach McKinney. He still may be the best recruiter the conference has ever seen. Speaking with WU's Coach Bunch at a recent cross country meet. He mentioned FU got two of the Gorlocks prime recruits in the Kirkpatrick kid from W. Frankfort, Ill (6'7), and a tremdous shooting guard from Salem, Mo., McCoy was an All - Stater. Not to mention the walk ins that just seem to show up because of his rep. In most cases it is true to say the game passes them by. This is not the case here. Fontbonne has been playing the run and gun since McKinney started the program, and players like to play for him. Last year was a fluke do to circumstances and this may be the best recruiting class ever at FU. There is still alot of fire in this Coach and no one hates to lose worst than him.

Lingering ? Not yet! Last year was only the second losing season in 35 years of college coaching.

[True Basketball Fan]

Just a question that I asked.............

It appears by your reply above that he's doing just fine and last year was a fluke.  I think that is fantastic, I love old coaches, especially ones who still have enough in the tank to deal with the kids these days AND excell on top of that.

[True Basketball Fan]

I heard Stephen Bash is back and healthy from his injury that laid him up last season.  Any early predictions on possible player of the year candidates?  You know who I'm picking.