MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

Huge games this Wednesday that will be critical in determining Conference Playoff positions

Webster at Blackburn - Should be a great game - Webster is the hottest team in the conference, and will logjam the top of the standings with a win.  Webster seems to match up well with Blackburns speed, and should have an advantage on the boards - will they take care of the ball?  Allen vs Spinner should be a great matchup.  The great equalizer though, is that darned Blackburn Court.

Fontbonne at MU - wow, if Bash is out and McCarthy still ill, I don't know how MU will get it done vs Fontbonne's size.  MU's frosh big guys don't match too well vs FU's big frosh.  On the other hand, Fontbonne's youth have been so inconsistent.  This should be an interesting game - interesting enough to keep me at Maryville rather than going up to Blackburn.

Mac at Prin - Mac's win streak continues, and they can really think about that 4th playoff spot

Westminster at Greenville - Huge game for Westminster - neither team seems to be playing up to their capabilities.  Tough to win at Greenville, but then, Gville hasn't played well in two weeks.  A Westminster loss would put them in a tie with Mac for 4th, somthing that looked illogical just a week ago.

[hopefan]

I hate it when the SLIAC falls to the bottom of the page because nobody is posting....
Darryl, Yjak, where are you... biggest game of the year tomorrow night for the Gorlocks - tomorrow night I'm definitely a Gorlock fan   (nothing against Blackburn, but I'd rather see the conference tourney in St Louis than Carlinville)!!
FC, where are you?  The youngsters should be prime to upset the Saints..
Mac Attack, Macfan where are you,  your team is back in it!!!!
Commish - I posed a couple questions about neutral site for conference tourney and how the tiebreakers work  -  no response???

Best time of the year and no one's talkin'!!!!!

[pantherpride]

I'll post hopefan.

Big game tomorrow for the Panthers on both the men's and women's side of things.  Greenville is in what I think is a must-win situation v. Westminster (Mo.).  I win would get us back on track and keep us in the hunt for 4th. 

In the first game, neither team played well as both teams combined for 55 total turnovers in the game.  Greenville failed to score for the first 10 minutes of the game.  Westminster didn't close the Panthers out until the closing minutes of the game.

The Panthers need to have a big night.  We play three of our final five games at home (Westminster, Blackburn, Principia).  Historically, we have been great at home.  As FCNews and Hopefan has eluided to eariler, HJ is a tough place to play and I'm doing all I can to get us cranked up for tomorrows game.

Just one stab at our SLIAC Officiating Crews.  It seems to me that they have been focused on the crowd and not the game.  They spend more time listning to who is yelling and taunting them then calling a good game.  I have seen this numerous times on both the men's and women's sides.  They also get influenced when a coach really rides them.  I'm not going to throw out any examples, but they just seem to be struggling a little this year.

All in all, I wanted to post for hopefan. Heres to you hope fan!

[fcnews]

Panther Pride - I know of one instance of officiating your speaking of. One almost T and the next four or five hand checks go to the coach on them. The officiating has gotten to the point that games are getting away from them. And, these officals enjoy controlling the games.

It amazes me that Div. I took the lead to clean up their game. Emphasis on hand checking and the rough play in the paint. Three years later your seeing a different game at their level. Still D II, DIII and even high school are playing a rougher game then the big boys. I know basketball is a physical game, but there is a difference in playing physical and fouling until you see how for a crew will let you go. Let's just be consistant for 40 minutes. And, it is definately a rule that you can not hand check the guy your guarding.

FU has MU, WU and BC all on the road. Come on boys let's make a splash in somebodies pool.

[Mac Attack]

Sorry for my absenteeism. Been on the road....

I think MacMurray can win three of their remaining five conference games, and finish 7-7 in conference play. They possibly could go 4-1, or maybe 2-3, but I think 3-2 is reasonable. I also think Westminster could go 2-3, which would make both teams 7-7. I would assme in case of ties, the league will use head-to-head records. If Mac wins at Westminster, they would split for the season - then what would they use as the tie-breaker?

[hopefan]

ok  now there's some activity - good to see.

Mac - I believe, though am not 100% certain, that your tiebreaker is how each team did vs the top of the standings....  for example, if Maryville is in 1st, Webster 2nd, BBurn third, did Mac or Wes have a better record vs No 1 Maryville, if one of them was 1-1, and the other 0-2, the tie is broken.  If the record is the same, did either team have a better record against  No 2 Webster?  If not, then against no 3 BBurn; if not, then against no 6 Greenville , if not, then against no 7 Fontbonne.  If each school had same record against all other schools, they then may go to a point differential in the two head to head games.  HOWEVER, I'M not certain on any of this... wish the commish would let us know.  I looked on the SLIAC site and they still refer to the old formate of no conference tourney, tie for championship is played off.  Obviously outdated

[fcnews]

Hope fan - you got it close, I think. I was told first tie breaker is head to head and then record against 1-2-3, ect. Or is that what you just stated.

[fcnews]

Tommorrow nights MU v. FU match up will be interesting. Can FU's size in the paint overcome MU's maturity at the guard spots. If FU can't find away to stop Regan and limit the good looks from Hebl, then inside game won't matter.

FU's problem this year is that when you start 6'5. 6'7 and 6'8 accross the back and you face sliac teams playing 3-4 or 5 guards, it makes for some quickness match ups that don't favor the big men. Plus, most of this years crop of quality perimeter players are upper classman that exploit this.

The game will depend alot (unfortunetly) on how this game is called. If they let the contact go in the guard play, then MU is to physical. If they let them play inside then it favors the Griffins. Can FU with stand that one big run the Saints "will" make.

Fontbonne hasn't won at Maryville in a long while. It is the toughest shooting gym in the conference. This year FU is not looking at alot of 3's and it doesn't effect shots 10 and in. Plus these kids have never loss at MU so it's all new.

To much thinking. Let's play. I'll take 17 pts for a cup of coffee.

[pantherpride]

hopefan and fcnews:

I think your tie-breaker work is right because we was looking at the cases last year because we could have been in a tie with Prin.  So, I think what you said was correct.  If a tie-breaker game must be played, it will be on Wednesday at a neutral floor.  (Prin/Greenville game was going to be played at Maryville).

[Mac Attack]

I hate to be a whiner, but the lack of any work by the MacMurray sports information director or department is getting real old. I have no idea who this person is, but according to the athletic website, the school has one. Yet in last Sunday's Jacksonville newspaper, there wasn't one word in the sport's section about Mac's win at Fontbonne - and this isn't the first time. No box score, no stats, no story, no nothing. How in the world can this college promote its basketball team if it doesn't lift a finger to proide the local media with game reports. No excuse. Whatever this person is gettng paid to be Mac's SID, it's too much. The program would get a bigger bag for its buck if it took this person's salary for handling SID work and throwing it out in the middle of I-72. The football picture on the athletic home page is wearing a little thin too. No stats for the basketball team. Come on. Most of these issues require very little effort and money - but it does require some time, pride in the school, and pride in the athletic program. I was hoping the new athletic director would tighten things up, bring some class to the different sports teams, and promote the kids and coaches. It's not that hard, and I think people would contribute to a program that wants to be first class, regardless of the enrollment. No question it would help recruiting. But when people in the same town don't even know the basketball team played, let alone defeated a pretty good team on the road, you're going nowhere. Fast.

My two cents.

[hopefan]

ooops so pantherpride, are you saying yes to the vs1, vs2, vs 3 format that FC and I both suggested, but if that ends in a tie, then a playoff, rather than point differential?

Regarding your comments about the officiating, while I have been careful to lay no blame on officiating for outcomes of games, I witnessed something at the Webster - Maryville game I didn't like.  A fan, a mature fan with 2 young kids with him, voiced in a reasonable manner that he disagreed with a call. (ie, no profanity, no condescending remark toward the official) - a comment like "come on ref, he was obviously over the back, that's gotta be a foul" - right at a timeout.  For the whole timeout, the ref stared the guy down, almost daring him to say something else.  Like an umpire arguing back and challenging a player, I though the official's demeanor was uncalled for.

[hopefan]

Mac, I would guarantee you that it would be VERY easy to call the athletic department, and speak to either the SID, or the Athletic Director.  Believe me, these schools tend to treat supporters of the program well... I would be shocked if you got a negative response.  Just have your facts straight when you call.  It would probably lead to improvement.

I have called many schools or emailed schools suggesting they get their web pages updated so that D3 fans like myself know the scores (I keep a large data base) - 9 times out of 10 I see things get updated immediately, usually with a "thanks for your interest" comment.

[pantherpride]

ooops so pantherpride, are you saying yes to the vs1, vs2, vs 3 format that FC and I both suggested, but if that ends in a tie, then a playoff, rather than point differential?

Yes, if the v1 / v2 / v3 format doesn't work, it goes to the playoff game.  I "believe" that was the case last year.  There was a conference call where the cases were explained to all the coaches.  I can't find it wrote down anywhere in my notes from last year.  That's just what I remember.  Sorry.

Officials:  I only bring this up because I did yell a little at the refs v. Maryville (women) on Saturday.  First half fouls were in the neighborhood of 13-5/6.  In the second half, they let things go all over and the official stoped the game, pointed me out and said one more word and I would be asked to leave.  I volunteered to leave because they were doing a horrible job and I told them that as I left in a suitable manor (no cussing or verbal bashing).

I come from Indiana (where I feel basketball is the best) and I have never seen an official stop a game and threated to toss a fan.  I have been apart of the game for 10 years now.  I have seen the officials stop the game and toss fans or almost toss fans alot.  I've also seen in two or three times in HS games here in IL.  It's fustrating that the officials sit and worry so much about the crowd.  Call the game.  That's what you are paid to do, not police the crowd.

[mac_support]

I couldn't agree more with Mac Attack.  We on more than a couple of occasions have e-mailed both the AD and the SID and received back some very well written chin music.  Very, very well written I must add.  I feel sorry for the seniors at Mac in that their last year to play has to be with such poor support of those that you feel you should be able to count on. 

As far as recruiting, Mac use to have at least a little edge in that their games were broadcast on the web for the parents, grandparents, anyone who wanted to follow their son or daughter they could log on and listen to nearly every single game, and now nothing.  Stats use to be posted an hour after the end of the contest.  It is just a crying shame to see the college make some personnel changes and go so backwards.  Actually it is amazing that this can happen this day and age in the age of advanced electronics.

In addition to Mac Attack's comment on the football picture, how about on the picture on the basketball page?  It is nice to see the captains, and they played a big role on any team, but we are talking about a team so why not a picture of the team?  Why a picture of just 3 players off the team.  Did the college not take a team picture?

[hopefan]

I have met pantherpride several times at Greenville vs Maryville games, and had discussions with him on this site.  I would define him as a "good kid" who does a great job on the microphone at Greenville Games.  It is VERY hard for me to imagine his actions would merit a warning from an official.

That brings out a good discussion topic - how far should a fan be allowed to go before an official should acknowledge him.  Certainly profanity, personal remarks, threats all justify expulsion.  Until this year, I don't know that I've ever seen the type of fan-official interaction that I've seen this year.  Are the fans getting worse, or the officials more sensitive?   Remember, I left my seat and  stood at the end of the court at Blackburn to get away from a fellow Maryville fan who was going WAY too far with the things he was saying at an official.

My feeling is this - while I have seen some very poor officiating this year, I don't consider anything I've seen to be so blatantly onesided that it generated a win or loss.