MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[fcnews]

Sorry Hopefan - $2500 per player / includes golf and concerts. I don't have much pull on this one. Maybe you could bid on a spot at the FU athletic golf tourney's auction.

[hopefan]

hi everyone from Portland Oregon - here for a wedding - spent the last two days sightseeing  -  one day in the mountains, one day on the coast  -  what a beautiful state, but with fall like temperatures down to the lower 50's.   In our travels, I've passed signs for 4 different D3 schools   -  Lewis and Clark, George Fox, Pacific, and Linfield.......  Would have loved to have visited the hoops facilities of each, but just no time.....

[fcnews]

Hopefan- Enjoy your trip pal you deserve it. Your right, it would of been nice to compare those facilities with the ones we get to view games in back here. Safe travels.

[hopefan]

noticed some comments in the CCIW page regarding recruiting at MacMurray - thought it might be of interest...   everything below is quoted - copied - from the CCIW page

The Highlanders could be/should be improved this season. Newcomers include Ryan Sichting (6'7" transfer from Lincoln Land CC), Malcom Larry (6'5" from state ranked Mounds-Meridian), Sean Knox (former all state guard from North Greene), CJ McClellen (6'3" transfer from Millikin who played for state championship Maroa-Forsyth), and 6'4" Travis Johnson (Cerro Gordo). There are 4-5 other recruits as well, and Mac has added a JV schedule. MacMurray has Polston and Schmidt coming back, and will add two starters from their 2006-2007 SLIAC co-champ team, Brady Greene and Farid Coleman. What all of that means, no one knows. But the team will be better. Tough non-conference schedule should get them ready for the SLIAC.

C.J. McClellan was a really good player on Maroa-Forsyth's Class A state championship team in 2006-07 - I saw that team play 7 or 8 times that season.  He played in the shadow of Robert Kreps (now Illinois-Chicago) but was a huge part of that Trojans team.

MacMurray is also getting Perry Bonds, an all state player from Griggsville-Perry, and Zac Ozee from Arcola. I think Bonds may have played in this year's ICBA Class all star game at IWU. 

Knox will give the Highlanders a quality guard who can light up the scoreboard from the 1 or 2 spot.  A coaches' kid, Sean has exceptional ball handling abilities, court sense and ability to penetrate to create or score.  Knox was on the 2005 IBCA All Stars that played in Bloomington.

Anyone in the CCIW see Lawyer Crowder play last year for Peoria Manuel? I think he's about 6'6" and started on the Ram's state runner-up team last season. He's another MacMurray recruit that should help inside. Mac plays Elmhurst and Augie in Jacksonville this year, and plays in the North Central Tip-Off.

[iwumichigander]

Hopefan - It certainly appears Todd Creal has done some serious recruiting for MacMurray including some transfers.  The players he picked up this recruiting season come from high school programs which turn out fundamentally good basketball talent.  Creal appears to have drawn upon his recruiting experience at Illinois College to improve the Highlanders. 

MacMurray won't likely contend for a SLIAC title but won't neccessarily be a sure "W" on other team's schedules.  The non-conference schedule is certainly tougher than last season and will quickly flush out the areas which need immediate improvement.

[hopefan]

Thanks for the interest IWUMichigander  -  the thing is in the SLIAC, a good recruiting class like the one Mac apparently put together could  easily push Mac into SLIAC playoff contention, particularly this year.  Only Fontbonne and Maryville return most of thier key players - all others will necessarily rely on new faces or unproven bench players from last year to play key roles  -   While I like Webster and Greenville to be leaders in the conference with Fontbonne and Maryville, it certainly seems that Mac has brought in the talent to challenge.   It's up to Coach Creal now to mold all of these new faces into a winning team.

[iwumichigander]

Hopefan - Always interested in the SLIAC as my high school alma mater was North Greene.  I will be interesting to see how fast Coach Creal can get this group to play together and how last season's upper classmen react to the challenge from incoming transfer upper classmen.  Not always an easy task to handle the egos.

What I think we can safely write about MacMurray is they now have more talented bench depth that was somewhat lacking in past years.  This will keep the Highlanders competitive in more ball games and give them the opportunity to win.

In making that statement, I am in no way overlooking the improvement in the four teams you cited (or, the conference as a whole).  Simply put, the SLIAC member schools have demonstrated consistant improvement in most of the programs.  I would still like to see more SLIAC compete against stronger non-conference competition to help their programs and conference get to a higher level.

[hopefan]

Michigander - not sure how close you've followed Mac - they were very good (SLIAC - level good) 2 years ago - 5 very solid starters - but the walls caved in and only one starter returned - nothing Coach Creal could do last season, as the talent was probably the weakest in the conference. 

The two returners this year from two years ago (if the rumor mill is correct), Green and Coleman were good players back then - how bad that year off will hit them is a real question mark.  They need to take leadership roles this year with all the new faces.  In reality, I don't see any of the returners from last year making a big enough impact to turn things around - it likely has to come from Greene, Coleman, and the new faces.  AND I wonder how Greene and Coleman will be accepted within the program - as I said, both were good players, but they both basicly bailed out on the program last year for whatever nonpublic reasons  -  if they lost the desire to play, it could be tough to rekindle.  Coleman was a solid ballhandler and pretty good shooter, Greene a consistent 3 man very active on the wing and around the basket.

Some of the SLIAC teams have done a very good job of scheduling recently - Maryville and Webster in particular have played top notch schedules, and if memory serves me right, Mac and Eureka have scheduled solid too.  Unfortunately, several of the other SLIAC schools spend part of their nonconference schedule playing the local Bible Colleges, Pharmaceutical schools, and Chiropractic schools, and unfortunately, no amount of ridicule on these pages (who, me?) will alter those decisions.

The SLIAC has really made Winters in St Louis more enjoyable for me - The conference has generally been very competitive amongst the top 6 or 7 teams, and with the 3 St Louis schools, and Greenville and Westmin relatively easy drives, there is a lot of good hoops to watch.  The four team conference tourney ia totally entertaining and competitve.

[fcnews]

The annual schedule topic AGAIN.

FU has:
Austin Peay (exhibition)
Wash U
Elmhurst
Grinnell
Rose Hulman
Rust (who is on WU's schedule I believe)
Chaminade
and I'm almost positive Wm. Penn will be FU's opener in Chicago.

That leaves the 2nd game in Chicago and LCC.

What do you want Hopefan. We already discussed the reason behind the Chi Town trip. There is no certainty that it will be Moody.

[fcnews]

Webster has Spalding twice. last season 9-15. These games were not required by conference.

Let's see, I believe the team that was ridiculed most about their schedule last year, made their second straight trip to the National Tournament as the SLIAC rep. Did their non-conference schedule play a part in that.

Moody Bible has never been a scheduled game. It may happen depending on the first results of the first game of that tournament. Let the coaches handle the scheduling. Each coach prepares his team differently.

One question regarding Mac's incoming class. How did these kids slip past the CCIW schools up in that area. I said on this board last year Coach Creal will turn this program back around.

[iwumichigander]

Let's see, I believe the team that was ridiculed most about their schedule last year, made their second straight trip to the National Tournament as the SLIAC rep. Did their non-conference schedule play a part in that.

One question regarding Mac's incoming class. How did these kids slip past the CCIW schools up in that area. I said on this board last year Coach Creal will turn this program back around.

As to non-conference, the larger question - Would a tougher non-conference schedule play a part in SLIAC teams getting past "one and done" in the NCAA Tournament?

These kids don't necessarily 'slip past' the CCIW schools.  It is more a matter of the existing student population demographics and economies of scale of recruiting in the Chicagoland area.

CCIW schools don't typically recruit (agressively, if at all) in the geographic areas of MAC"s incoming class.   And, from an overall student population perspective, the number of incoming freshmen overall in most CCIW schools from these downstate areas is very small.  The exceptions usually come from coaches' or alumni referrals, seeing a player in the high school tournament; or, more likely, a prospect being draw to a CCIW institution for academic (or legacy) reasons rather than athletics.  And, a prospect draw academically to a CCIW school more likely is a 'walk-on' rather than a 'recruited' player.

[hopefan]

ooops forgot to include Fontbonne as another SLIAC school who has stepped up their schedule - this year.   I was not particularly impressed with previous season's schedules, but this year is stronger.  However, I can't ignore the fact that Rust and Rose Hulman were sub 500 last season, and that Grinnell is basicly an exhibition game as 'the system' does little to prepare the Griffs for anything but layup practice.  I Certainly hope that Fontbonne gets another shot at William Penn in Chicago - revenge would be sweet.

But of course, what fun would the SLIAC room be without the nonpoison darts being thrown between D3hoops buddies FCnews and Hopefan....

[y_jack_lok]

I've heard it said that in a game between a team that plays "the system", like Grinnell, and one that doesn't, the better team will win. In other words, playing the system does not give that team an advantage over teams that have superior talent, but they will still beat teams with lesser talent. That was evident in the SLIAC a few years ago during the season that MacMurray used the system. However, for a team that doesn't play the system, this kind of a match-up is a true test of conditioning. We know from last season that Fontbonne's players can handle lots of minutes on the court. Should be a fun game to watch.

[hopefan]

Mac's version of the system was quite a bit different than what Grinnell uses - Mac made an attempt to get back on defense, and I don't remember them passing up layups for 3 point shots - their only thing was forcing the ball up the floor and taking the first available shot and rotating lots of players- and as I remember, their talent at that time was not too impressive.

Grinnell is altogether different (from what I have heard and read) - And I can't help but think that the system has helped them beat more talented teams that simply couldn't keep up with them, especially when Grinell was shooting well....   I too look forward to seeing them play - and it is one game where I think Coach McKinney will have to use his bench - fortunately from what FC has been telling us, there will be depth available this season.

[y_jack_lok]

Interesting. I had not recognized that Mac didn't employ the system the same way Grinnell does. However, I have seen the system used in the same way as Grinnell -- by Emory & Henry where your (hopefan's) friend Bob Johnson used to coach. I saw E&H play Randolph-Macon in January of 2006 and January of 2007. R-MC won the '06 game without too much trouble, and they were clearly the better team. In '07 they had graduated a couple of key players and were not as talented. E&H was unconscious from 3 point land in the first half and was up by over 20. I think at some point during the game E&H's lead was around 30. R-MC made a valiant attempt to come back but eventually lost by 8. In both cases I think the better team won.