MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

GREAT to see you Buncher...

Yikes - Ryan Kirkpatrick -   Forgot all about him -  a little inactive on the floor for my taste  (remember I used to complain FC as to how good he looked on a couple of plays per game, but was non existant much of the time), but high level potential

White Parker Kirkpatrick McCoy Branch Storandt Fogerty and the new recruit  -  scarey good  -  and (gasp) with depth!!!!!   

[BLA]

Thank you for the updates.  But I believe there was another part of that question.  I brought it up since the topic of fairness has been present in discussions.  The question again, is it fair for these kids to come in as hired guns and play one season and never be heard from again on the court or classroom?  Aren't they taking minutes away from the players that were there the previous season or two? Isn't that what you are worried about happening at Maryville if they bring in the DII crew and give them the ball? Why fair to them at Fontbonne and not at Maryville? Were these cases exceptions to the rule? Was the integrity of DIII compromised here?

I don't wish any misfortunes to these kids after they get in a program or for coming and competing. I think it's great if it's done right. Again, not saying it wasn't.  Lovette wasn't added to my list on purpose.  Nor White or Kirkpatrick.  The ones I suggested were because they are the times I thought were to be questionable and open for discussion.

Y_jak I know there have been players in webster's past that have had the same troubles. Grades, desire, talent, money are all reasons for leaving a University. If you want the inside scoop on any of them I would be able to justify and give you reasons for departure just as FC as kindly done for all of us.  But that wasn't the topic. I didn't ask why they left.

In the case of financial or grades....how did they get in the university in the first place? The first numbers that  Bunch and Siener look after a potential recruits name aren't in the points per game column. It's the numbers that really matter, the ACT and GPA. If they aren't up to par they don't get in. Webster University says so. Even if they average 25 and 10.

So again was it fair? That they transfered in to play games and leave? If it's fair in that case then it has to be fair for Maryville to bring in whomever they choose fit?

Side note....Razor in regards to the kid from Miller Academy.  I saw him play and if I'm thinking of the right one he's not bad.  Not bad at all! I'm glad to see Mac rebuilding. The more competitive teams the better.

[fcnews]

None were brought in for one semester. You asked particulars and I gave them. Parker's grades in H.S. at Lafayette were just fine. So I don't see your point on any of the names mentioned. All came with the purpose of graduating. Sometimes things don't workout. Your comment on what WU looks at GPA and ACT don't have anything to do with financial situations. Am I missing something.

[BunchTime]

I guess it's my turn to add my two cents to this ongoing discussion.  I agree with BLA on the many interesting points he raises regarding Maryville's jump to DII.  Although I hate to Maryville leave the SLIAC as they always provide another competitive foe in the St. Louis area, I, however, have no problem with them wanting to move up a level to DII.  I don't understand why this upsets so many people, other then selfish reasons of having another solid St. Louis school in the conference.  Do I think they are ready?  No.  Will they have many bumps along the way of building a team that can compete with the likes of other DII schools?  Absolutely.  Nevertheless, every team that makes a jump whether it be from DIII to DII or DII to DI will struggle in the beginning and have their growing pains.  If they so desire to move to DII, then more power to them and I wish them the best of luck.  I have always been a fan of Coach Roger's and I think they will field a competitive team sooner rather then later.

As to the fairness topic, it will always become a controversial decision when deciding whether the departing team -- Maryville -- will be allowed to compete for a conference title and have an opportunity to represent the conference in the NCAA tournament.  No matter what the decision, people will be unhappy.  I believe that the conference made the right decision.  The returning players at Maryville deserve to play for conference title.  As BLA mentioned, are we really that worried that Maryville will bring in such a talented group of players that it will make a HUGE impact on their team's success?  Additionally, as another poster mentioned, this group of incoming players doesn't seem that much different from previous Maryville recruiting classes.   

Finally, on the subject of Coach Roger's telling and/or promising players a scholarship following the 2008-2009 season, who cares?  I don't think this is an unethical.  Why wouldn't Coach Roger's seek this recruiting edge.  In a world where coaches try to out-recruit one another and gain an edge all the time, what difference does it make when, and if, Coach Roger's makes this statement to a kid who is contemplating going to Maryville.  It is the truth, right?  They do have the ability to offer a kid a scholarship come the 2009-2010 campaign.  I don't see anything wrong with it.  I don't see how this is any different then, for example, Coach McKinney telling a player to come play for us because we go to the National Tournament and that is why we are better than Webster.  I think Coach McKinney would be foolish not to point this out to a kid who is deciding between Webster and Fontbonne.  All thoughts are welcome as I am sure many will disagree with what I have to say!

[BunchTime]

Another recruiting tidbit from Webster that I inadvertantly omitted from my last two posts....

Webster just recieved word that 6'6" forward, Jason Smith, will be transferring out of William Jewell and enrolling at Webster for the last 8 weeks of this current semester.  He will enroll in 12 hours and be immediately eligible once practice begins and will have all four years of eligibility left.

More on Jason Smith... He graduated last spring from Vianney High School and signed with William Jewel but did not like it, and therefore he decided to enroll at Webster.  Smith was a four year starter at Vianney under head coach Kevin Walsh.  He is a big body with a very soft touch despite his physical game.  He can play with his back to the basket or face-up and take someone off the dribble.  He is a welcome addition to the Gorloks.

His senior year stats are as follows:  11 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 1 bpg, 48% from the floor, and 50% from the charity stripe.  The last stat will be something that Coach Bunch and his staff will immediately need to work on, especially given his physical game.  Note:  Smith averaged 11 ppg on a team that averaged around 40/game... His team at Vianney wasn't the high-flying, up-and-down team that previous Vianney teams have been known for!

[fcnews]

BLA - To close on our conversation. The question was on what basis a kid was recruited. The thing that should really erk other conference schools is the fact that Coach McKinney and his staff really don't recruit! Coach McKinney probably saw 3 HS games this past year. Entire staff saw less then ten.

When you've been in the game as long as FU's coach kids come to you. That comes from a high quality of character and rep. as a a coach who is fun to play for. Most recruits end up at FU through former players and coaching friends. On this years squad alone you have Chris Forrest, who came to FU through former player Marvin Talley (Now principal at Riverview). Nolan Zoellner of Washington HS., played for former player Adam Fischer. The kids from southeast missouri arrived a FU through a former HS coach who competed against McKinney.

If your looking for an "Outside the Lines" episode I'm afraid you would be dissapointed. If you want to roll the dice and throw open the closet doors of the SLIAC closets, you would find FU's would be like the Geraldo event opening Capones vault. Alot of dust but no skeletons. Coach McKinney has long been known as a coach willing to give a kid a second chance. And, the success stories going all the way back to Mo. Bapt, days is a very long list.

So if I was a SLIAC coach or supporter I would be more upset by the fact that a school who does not spend much time recruiting, remains so competitive.

[BLA]

I wasn't looking in anyone's closet or searching for a scandal.  I only asked a simple question. The question was again, if you forgot, was if it was fair?  That's what started all of this and STILL you haven't answered yes or no if that was fair to the other schools or to even the other players on those Fontbonne teams. If you just want to ignore it, that's fine with me.  It's really not important.  Just brought it up because I thought it was a similar situation.

You have brought up it up that these kids deserved a second chance, I agree. I'm all for that. Man, remind me never to ask for a second chance at Fontbonne.  It's over before you even get a chance to get back on your feet.

Now that is out of the way....apparently there was a meeting with all student athletes at Maryville this summer to discuss the transition into DII.  Get this, these athletes that is causing so much concern in Griffin land are not eligible to recieve scholarships at a later date unless it's a special case.  So there you go incoming freshman can't recieve scholarships...second hand info, so you can never be too sure how accurate.


In regards to your recruiting comment, more power to the coaches that they don't have work to hard at recruiting. But get this, some coaches enjoy recruiting. Some actually like putting out the effort and watching the kids come in and be successful.  But hey, Fontbonne congrats that you get to coast.  Man, I wonder what a president of a University would think about that post.  Coaches don't have to work hard for there salaries to stay competitive.  So if they work harder at recruiting I wonder what that program could be.....with that facility and the educational programs that they have.  Maybe could close the gap between Fontbonne and maybe a Wash U.

Some coaches like to stay competitive, Some strive for dominance.

[hopefan]

Was looking at the 4  D3 schools in St Louis schedules for Nov and Dec  - 

Faced with a tough decision on Saturday Dec 6

At 3:00
Wash U hosts Ill Wesleyan
and down the road
Webster hosts MacMurray


hmmmmmm  (sorry FC, I won't be making the trip north that day to see Font take on Eureka.)

the weeks of Dec 7 and 14 are excellent..
Fontbonne plays Rust, Wash U and Elmhurst
Webster plays Rust and Wheaton
ALL in St Louis

and on the weekend of the 19th 20th a potential road trip to see Wash U at Elmhurst or Maryvill at So Ind

[fcnews]

BLA- It is as fair as anyother student entering the year. As a coach are you not responsible for putting the best team on the floor. I don't think in any case mentioned that one teammate would tell you they felt slighted. As for as the other schools, they have every oppurtunity FU has for semester transfers. I think Davis and Roberts were the only semester newbies. Now I hope this completes the question.  Your backhanded comment about second chance was obviously made about a few and not the many who succeeded.

If you look at FU's numbers in basketball, I'm sure any Prez would be happy. This year FU has 28 taking the floor Oct. 15th.

I do beleive the meeting on MU's campus was for existing student athletes and did not include any incoming freshmen or transfers. This, as you stated, is second hand info I got from a current Saint soccer player.

Hopefan - You will have many choices to get out of the house.

[y_jack_lok]

Congrats to our fellow poster, Eureka_SID. Go to the link below. We've all enjoyed and appreciated his thoughtful contributions to this site, now he is being recognized for his articulate professional writing skills.

http://www.sliac.org/headlines/2008-09/sullivan_093008.htm

[Gregory Sager]

Congrats to our fellow poster, Eureka_SID. Go to the link below. We've all enjoyed and appreciated his thoughtful contributions to this site, now he is being recognized for his articulate professional writing skills.

http://www.sliac.org/headlines/2008-09/sullivan_093008.htm

Congrats, Brian!

[hopefan]

Thanks for making us aware of that Yjak - in a funny quirk of timing, I traded emails with Brian (Eureka SID) yesterday as he hadn't posted here in quite awhile - wanted to let him know there was quite a bit of activity here in the last couple of weeks  -  right now he's very busy with fall sports, but all is obviously well for him up in eureka  -  unless he's a Cub fan!!!!!

[Razor Back]

22 involved in pre-season conditioning at Mac. Maybe their biggest group in quite a while...

I still think Westminster has a chance to be real good, despite losing four starters...

BLA asks a lot of very interesting questions...

Cub fans are inching towards to the ledge....

Razor


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[hopefan]

Razor, have you seen Mac's new players?   Who looks like immediate impact?   Does it appear some of the old heads from last year's 3-22 squad will be disappearing from the program?

Westmin loses so much and their bench really didn't impact much last year - people are going to have to get a lot better or the new faces will have to be good right away....

[Razor Back]

Hard to say who could be immediate impact players among the new faces for Mac, but put Sean Knox, Ryan Sichting, Lawyer Crowder, Freddy Miller, and CJ McClellen in the mix...

Plenty of others could surprise, such as Ozee, Larry, Johnson, and Bonds...

Not to mention 6'8" Marc Randle, who will join the Highlanders after football season is over. Randle was one of the SLIAC's "Players of the Week" last week. Mac just got a lot bigger.

Polston, Schmidt, and Reiken from last year's team will be important pieces...

Would guess much depends on whether or not Greene and Coleman are close to form. If they are, Mac could have a pretty interesting team...

http://www.mac.edu/athletics/mens_basketball/roster.asp

One would think Mac will be a lot better in February than they will be in November. Will take some time for everyone to get used to sharing minutes, a rotation getting set, familiarity with each other, etc.

Westminster lost a  lot, but recruited well, especially two or three upperclassmen. And it's hard to beat the Jays at their place...

Razor

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