MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[formersliaccommish]

Church is over, it's 67 degrees but since it's raining, no golf; time to weigh in on some of the recent SLIAC hoops issues.

1) FC News, I hope your threat to stop posting is like some of the others you have made and will be short-lived. For those of us who follow the SLIAC from afar, except for an UMSL-Wash U-SLIAC long weekend in February, your comments, and those of others, help keep us informed about what's going on in the conference. I feel about the SLIAC like Senator Daniel Webster felt about Dartmouth College when he addressed a colleague in the US Senate in the 19th century and said "It is a small school sir but there are those of us who love it." Please continue to post.

2) Hopefan, you are absolutely correct on the No Games During Finals issue. Both of the schools that I served as head basketball coach had policies about not playing during Final Exams, except at home on Saturday. The SLIAC also works its Spring Sports Tournaments around Final Exams although it's not always possible given the different schedule each institution follows. It's not fair to the student-athletes to have them on long trips during that period although I suspect Fontbonne had some extenuating circumstances to cause them to do that.

3) Hopefan, your comments about Maryville are right on the mark also. I sent the President a pretty lengthy email, I believe you got a copy as well, and also received no the response from him. Their committee that looked into D2 had no one on it who knew anything about intercollegiate athletics. The sad part is that the student-athletes and coaches are the ones who will suffer. The humiliating defeats and the long trips in the GLVC will wear them down.

4) I haven't seen Webster for a couple of years so I don't know their personnel but I've always thought  that Chris Bunch, and most D3 coaches, substitute too much. Maybe they want to give kids who are paying tens of thousands of dollars to go to school something for their money but admirable as that sentiment is, it doesn't always lead to victories. I'll never forget something John Wooden said at a coaching clinic I attended as a very young coach. Someone asked him why he only played six or seven players. He said, "I'd rather have the remaining five or six mad at me than have all of them mad at me". The game has changed since then but I believe his comment is still true. You can't please everybody.

That's all. Time for an afternoon nap. I hope to see some of you February 17-21 when I'm up there for my annual hoops weekend. 

[Love_for_the_Game]

Hopefan- good for you for staying and not being a baby like your co partner FCNEWS.

FCNEWS- Come on, how many times every gives me crap for what I have to say. Stop crying and making everyone feel sorry for you and step up and be a man. Take what people say and stay in this chatroom. Who else am I going to argue with? I know someone besides me said a negative thing about you but that doesnt mean you have to leave the chat room. This is not 5th grade, YOU ARE AN ADULT. You should be able to take the heat or dont give it out to other people.

[furbug]

I feel about the SLIAC like Senator Daniel Webster felt about Dartmouth College when he addressed a colleague in the US Senate in the 19th century and said "It is a small school sir but there are those of us who love it."

Wow! As a Dartmouth graduate, that is one of my favorite quotes, although I never expected to see it on the SLIAC site. The eloquent Daniel Webster was, however, not addressing a colleague in the U.S. Senate when he said it. He was pleading the case for his own alma mater, Dartmouth College, in front of Chief Justice John Marshall of the U.S. Supreme Court. The state of New Hampshire was attempting to seize the charter of the college. Daniel Webster and Dartmouth won the case. It remains a small private institution today.

[y_jack_lok]

4) I haven't seen Webster for a couple of years so I don't know their personnel but I've always thought  that Chris Bunch, and most D3 coaches, substitute too much. Maybe they want to give kids who are paying tens of thousands of dollars to go to school something for their money but admirable as that sentiment is, it doesn't always lead to victories.

I expect the reasons for subbing differ from year to year. This season it seems Webster has some work to do finding the right combination of players. From what I've seen Matt Trippett and John Oertworth seem to have a nice synergy on offense when on the court together. But those guys might not always match  up well with the opposition defensively. For the 2009-2010 Gorloks, progress may be the most important product.

[Aways outthere]

LOTG- While I'm glad your behind one of my favorite players keep in mind that it's early in the season. Lots of games to play. Don't put undo pressure on a player who I know in his mind feels he must DO IT ALL. This kid is hardnosed, tenasious, and at times can be LIGHTS OUT.Get off the POY. They got to play the games. FU is going to hit some bumps.Trust me bud, I've seen near ever college game he has played. The POY talk is bad "JU-JU ". Keep focused. GET to the 4, WIN 2, GO to at least 1. Of all the players in this conference Josh could maybe hold up 4 fingers there ain't any who have EVER.
So far
Few can hold up 1 finger.
See you on the 19th.

[formersliaccommish]

Furburg - Well, at least I got the quote right. The memory isn't what it used to be and I stumbled on that story more than thirty years ago while doing research on Dartmouth prior to going up there to be interviewed for the HBC position. Maybe I researched too much; somebody else got the job. 

[hopefan]

It's a small world - I was almost the assistant Basketball coach at Dartmouth - first time I didn't get it, 2nd time I turned it down after making a career move out of coaching....  good relationship with then head coach Gary Walters....  have 2nd guessed my decision many times over the years.....

[furbug]

Furburg - Well, at least I got the quote right. The memory isn't what it used to be and I stumbled on that story more than thirty years ago while doing research on Dartmouth prior to going up there to be interviewed for the HBC position. Maybe I researched too much; somebody else got the job. 

It's a small world - I was almost the assistant Basketball coach at  Dartmouth- first time I didn't get it, 2nd time I turned it down after making a career move out of coaching....  good relationship with then head coach Gary Walters....  have 2nd guessed my decision many times over the years.....

I surely know all about the memory fading, believe me. I do remember, however, former commish, your telling me about that Dartmouth interview  about 8 years ago when we sat together at a Webster sports award dinner. It is too bad that neither of you guys went up there to coach. Maybe we would have had some better teams over the years. The women have become the better athletes at Dartmouth, since they let them in about 37 years ago. There were no women when I was there. Anyway you would have loved the place. There is a magic there that never escapes you. I taught up there Fall terms for 7 years from 1997 through 2003.

[distantobserver]

So was I the only one expecting a more even game GC vs EC?  Looks like EC has their team ready to go!  Congrats to EC.  I will be at the game when they come to town...  I am really a BIG Fontbonne fan so it will be nice to see FU come out with a victory! 

formersliacomm - you posted the folowing concerning the jump to D2 for MU "The humiliating defeats and the long trips in the GLVC will wear them down."  So what does that say about the athletes and coachs of MU and OTHER teams that keep putting it out there and no matter what give 100% and still fall to the bottom?  So are saying if you can't win hang it up you'll never rise above it?  Come on - doesn't everyone clasify that as a rebuilding year, didn't do very well recruiting, students enrollment numbers.....?  I have heard alot.

MU going to D2 well - I do agree they should of stayed... but I am not "in the know" about alot so I don't the details.

[y_jack_lok]

MU going to D2 well - I do agree they should of stayed... but I am not "in the know" about alot so I don't the details.

A couple of years ago when the MU/D2 thing first came up, I looked into what was required by the NCAA of a D2 institution. If I am mistaken, then someone who knows better please correct me, but what I learned is that D2 requires the institution to offer 5 sports for men and 5 for women. D3, on the other hand requires 6 and 6. Perhaps Maryville did some math and calculated that it was less expensive to offer a total of 10 sports programs and provide some scholarships for each, than to field a total of 12 sports and not offer scholarships

Just a thought. Like I said, If I am wrong about this, or if anyone knows more, please chime in.

[furbug]

Perhaps Maryville did some math and calculated that it was less expensive to offer a total of 10 sports programs and provide some scholarships for each, than to field a total of 12 sports and not offer scholarships
[/quote]
The MU site still shows 7 sports for men and 8 for women. Of course, longer range they could be planning to discontinue some, but they just put some bucks into the on-campus golf facility. I think they just felt it to be more prestigious to become D-2, and overrated their teams' capabilities, and their ability to recruit, at least in the short term.

[WUPHF]

I do think the Maryville story is particularly interesting...a story that I have followed every since it was announced.

The press releases and interviews released early in the process lacked substance as one can imagine.  Lots of talk about competition and championships and not much else. 

I will admit that I was impressed when the GLVC added Maryville.  I graduated from a Division II school that often played GLVC schools.  It is a strong conference.

It seems to me that the only reason to move to Division II is to eventually move to Division I.  Otherwise, what else do you get?  Prestige?  Give me a break.

The Athletic Department also has a Benefits page that supposedly explains the benefits of the move.  There are several very interesting "benefits" such as charging only $900 dues (do they charge more for Division III?) and television coverage for national championships (interesting!).

Take a look.

Question & Answer
http://www.maryville.edu/athletics-d2-faq.htm

Timeline
http://www.maryville.edu/athletics-d2-timeline.htm

Benefits
http://www.maryville.edu/athletics-d2-benefits.htm

[y_jack_lok]

I remember reading those things when this first came up. In looking over the Q&A it says "As part of the Maryville University Strategic Plan our institution will 'site and build a multi-purpose athletics practice facility'".

So perhaps I am wrong that the plan is to cut back to fewer sports. Anyway, they've got their work cut out for them.

[Gregory Sager]

MU going to D2 well - I do agree they should of stayed... but I am not "in the know" about alot so I don't the details.

A couple of years ago when the MU/D2 thing first came up, I looked into what was required by the NCAA of a D2 institution. If I am mistaken, then someone who knows better please correct me, but what I learned is that D2 requires the institution to offer 5 sports for men and 5 for women. D3, on the other hand requires 6 and 6. Perhaps Maryville did some math and calculated that it was less expensive to offer a total of 10 sports programs and provide some scholarships for each, than to field a total of 12 sports and not offer scholarships

Just a thought. Like I said, If I am wrong about this, or if anyone knows more, please chime in.

D3 currently requires five men's sports and five women's sports of its coed institutions. Starting in 2012, the minimum requirement goes up to six and six, but that's only for schools that have enrollments larger than a thousand students. Since Maryville's got just under three thousand, that rule would've applied to Maryville if the school had stayed in D3.

However, D2 isn't like the NAIA, in which a school can choose to decline the opportunity to provide athletic scholarships. There is a minimum mandatory requirement of subjective-criteria financial aid (which includes but is not confined to athletic scholarships) that has to be disbursed to student-athletes at D2 schools. The bottom of the first page of this PDF file goes into those details.

[hopefan]

I'm glad that FormerSLIACCommish made the comment supporting my thoughts on Final Exams - I didn't think I was out of line with my opinion that D3 students not be scheduled with away games during finals.... but after hearing FC dissent and receiving no other support, thought maybe that things had changed.....  I think there is a reason that games during the week this week and last week are so sparse.....   Believe me, at RPI we NEVER had a game during finals, and practices were very light.....

Tonight's game at Fontbonne, vs Rose Hulman, should be an interesting one...

Rose beat Fontbonne badly last year - probably the low point of the season for the Griffs last year...  From then on, it was mostly successes.

Rose had done little this season... until last Saturday when they Upset Transylvania at home in OT...  Rose beat Blackburn at home earlier in the season 72-63  -  they have lost to Millikin by 10.  Record is 4-5

Fontbonne needs a win after the disappointing loss to Spalding and the lopsided loss at Elmhurst... A win generates some confidence no matter what happens at Wash U.....  and an upper is needed to help get ready for what is a very big game Jan 2 vs Eureka.

Loveof thegame and others  -  I'll be there tonite, usually sitting top, next to top row, towards the visitors side, behind the benches  -  green sweater, glasses, gray and dark hair (probably more gray) -  please say hi, I won't bite......