MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[WUPHF]

There are a large number of transfers for one main reason. Lindenwood made an agreement with SWIC that they would not recruit Il. HS seniors.

If you don't mind me asking, why would a coach do that?  Is that all Illinois high school seniors?  And, is that for a future years, or indefinitely?

[Denny McKinney]

WUH - The coaches did not make that decision. It was made by the main campus administration. I could not honestly tell you the length of the agreement.

SWIC carries alot of political power in Belleville. This may have been a compromise to allow LU-B athletics to get off the ground.

[WUPHF]

The bottom line is that it's hard to get reputable four-year schools of long standing to schedule you until you've been around for awhile and have achieved some credibility as a program.

I am not completely surprised.  Division II UMSL was a surprise, but maybe it should not have been.  The last coach may have left a few dates open before he was asked to leave.  The other interesting arrangement is the away and away series with Maryville.

I do appreciate the detailed post.  Everything you said makes a lot of sense.  You could write a book on Chicago area small college basketball.  I would read it.

It is fascinating that institutions such as Lindenwood-Belleville, Robert Morris, Lake County and even Roosevelt would start an athletics program in this economy, but I guess it is a way to drive enrollment and equal out the gender imbalance.  And, maybe feed the egos of the administration.  Or, give student life a much-needed boost on an otherwise staid campus.

Incidentally, Lindenwood-Belleville is fielding 11 of the 14 sports offered by the SLIAC in addition to Men's Volleyball. 

For a moment, I was going to ask if the SLIAC had an interest in expanding to 10 or more teams, but probably all well managed conferences are at least open to the idea.

[Gregory Sager]

Greg- There are a large number of transfers for one main reason. Lindenwood made an agreement with SWIC that they would not recruit Il. HS seniors.

I'm not sure why that was directed at me, since I didn't broach the subject of Lindenwood-Belleville's roster. Of course, if WUH's name is Greg, then I apologize for misconstruing the reference. Since you brought it up, though, I'm fascinated by the idea of one institution telling another who it can and cannot recruit. I've never heard of anything like that before.

The bottom line is that it's hard to get reputable four-year schools of long standing to schedule you until you've been around for awhile and have achieved some credibility as a program.

I am not completely surprised.  Division II UMSL was a surprise, but maybe it should not have been.  The last coach may have left a few dates open before he was asked to leave.  The other interesting arrangement is the away and away series with Maryville.

I do appreciate the detailed post.  Everything you said makes a lot of sense.  You could write a book on Chicago area small college basketball.  I would read it.

It is fascinating that institutions such as Lindenwood-Belleville, Robert Morris, Lake County and even Roosevelt would start an athletics program in this economy, but I guess it is a way to drive enrollment and equal out the gender imbalance.  And, maybe feed the egos of the administration.  Or, give student life a much-needed boost on an otherwise staid campus.

Incidentally, Lindenwood-Belleville is fielding 11 of the 14 sports offered by the SLIAC in addition to Men's Volleyball. 

For a moment, I was going to ask if the SLIAC had an interest in expanding to 10 or more teams, but probably all well managed conferences are at least open to the idea.

Yeah, the gender-imbalance thing is a key reason why schools are starting intercollegiate sports, or adding to the ones they already have. The idea is that they not only add male student-athletes to the student body, they're also likely to draw male students who want to watch the teams, even if they aren't actively participating as athletes. It also raises the school's media profile, particularly in markets that aren't oversaturated in terms of local sports coverage. In theory, the infusion of new male students should offset the cost of the sports and thus it won't be a net drain on school finances during these tough economic times.

However, I think it's a bit problematic in terms of commuter or mostly-commuter schools such as Lindenwood-Belleville, Roosevelt, etc. Commuter students traditionally have little time for non-academic campus activities, including watching or participating in school sports. They're usually off-campus working or tending to family life when they're not in the classroom or at the library. It's resident students that typically constitute the heart and soul of both athletic rosters and student fan sections in small-college intercollegiate sports -- and it's often difficult for commuter-based schools to tap into that same kind of student interest.

BTW, twelve varsity sports is a remarkably high number for a USCAA school to offer. Typically, USCAA schools -- like a lot of NCCAA and NAIA schools -- offer a very limited number of varsity sports. It makes me wonder if Lindenwood-Belleville has plans for eventual affiliation with a national organization other than the humble USCAA (i.e., the NCAA).

[hopefan]

Could it possibly lend itself to another 'agreement' that SWIC 2 year grads would be encouraged to attend Lindenwood Belleville?

[Gregory Sager]

Could it possibly lend itself to another 'agreement' that SWIC 2 year grads would be encouraged to attend Lindenwood Belleville?

While the whole agreement between Lindenwood-Belleville and Southwestern Illinois College for the former not to recruit in-state high-school seniors is absolutely baffling -- at least in light of the limited information that's been presented here thus far -- perhaps the most baffling aspect of all is that it's an agreement between a private institution (Lindenwood-Belleville) and a public one (Southwestern Illinois). I could understand it -- almost -- if it was a local public school that was making this agreement with SWIC, but a private school?

This entire matter really confuses me. How in the world can one institution of higher learning dictate policy to another? Is it a facilities issue; i.e., is Lindenwood-Belleville using SWIC's athletic facilities rent-free or at a reduced rental rate in exchange for a promise not to recruit in-state high-school seniors?

[WUPHF]

This entire matter really confuses me. How in the world can one institution of higher learning dictate policy to another? Is it a facilities issue; i.e., is Lindenwood-Belleville using SWIC's athletic facilities rent-free or at a reduced rental rate in exchange for a promise not to recruit in-state high-school seniors?

The Lindenwood-Belleville campus is a former high school so they have a basketball field house, a soccer field, and a football stadium.  It cannot be a facilities issue.

And, in regards to the fact that Lindenwood-Belleville has twelve sports, that does match the approach from the main campus which has been particularly ambitious in recent years.  They must be planning on an eventual transition to the NAIA or NCAA.  At the moment, though, the volleyball team is ranked "5th in the nation" so they have to be excited about that, even if the ranking is a little superficial.

[Denny McKinney]

I know this page needs posts. But, maybe these questions could be best answered by contacting the LU-B A.D. by email.

With LU- St. Charles going Div. II it is unlikely that LU-B will follow the NCAA DIII route. Mckendree, which is in close proximity, is also going Div II. LU - B will need the scholarships to attract athletes to a branch school.

Good Luck to Chad Fournie ( XCountry coach, also ) on the upcoming trip to Nationals. I believe he has 2 individuals that have qualified.

[Gregory Sager]

I know this page needs posts. But, maybe these questions could be best answered by contacting the LU-B A.D. by email.

With LU- St. Charles going Div. II it is unlikely that LU-B will follow the NCAA DIII route. Mckendree, which is in close proximity, is also going Div II. LU - B will need the scholarships to attract athletes to a branch school.

That's not necessarily true. There are plenty of examples of branch campuses that are non-scholarship while the main campus is scholarship. The entire WIAC is set up like that. The main University of Wisconsin campus in Madison is D1, as is the branch campus in Green Bay, and the Parkside branch in Kenosha is D2; meanwhile, all nine WIAC branch campuses are D3. The main University of Massachusetts campus in Amherst is D1; one branch campus (UMass-Lowell) is D2, while the other two (UMass-Boston and UMass-Dartmouth) are D3. And the precedent exists among private schools, too; the larger Metropolitan campus of Fairfield Dickinson University is D1, while the smaller Florham Park campus is D3.

I'm sure that the Lindenwood administration will choose an eventual level of competition for Lindenwood-Belleville that is best suited for that particular campus, rather than basing a decision upon the status of the other campus. It wouldn't be fair to LUB otherwise.

LUB could make an ideal candidate for SLIAC expansion if the school eventually opts for D3.

[hopefan]

Just noticed....  Spalding is also in the Moody Bible Tournament... Wonder if the weekend is set up as a 'Classic', so Fontbonne and Spalding don't play each other, or if in a tournament format, where they could meet each other in a pre-conference matchup...  something that rarely has happened in the SLIAC.......... 

Fontbonne and Spalding don't face each other in Conference until January 22...

[Denny McKinney]

Hopefan - It is a tournament format. Friday nite has Spalding v. WM. Penn then FU v. Moody. Either way it will be a chance for both teams to do some scouting.

[Denny McKinney]

Coach has a team meeting on Monday and practice will start as usual of Friday. This will put an end to all rumors and speculation. You can't keep a good man down. Season 50 here we come.

[Denny McKinney]

Hopefan you nailed it. The recruiting situation was a two year agreement. SWIC will be like a feeder C.C. for LU-B. At this time there are no discussions on what Direction the athletic dept. will go as for affiliation.

Plus 1K hopefan - If I could give them.

[hopefan]

Oct 15th rapidly approaches...  I gotta say, I'm truly pumped to have D3hoops get started to distract me from the worries of routine life.....

[Denny McKinney]

Fontbonne had it's preseason team meeting. Coach  has 28 on the roster to start with. It's usually two weeks before he posts his roster. Fontbonne also has a 16 game JV schedule. JV will have their own practice time. All the players were extemely happy to see Dad there.

Friday can't get here soon enough.